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Thread: All this winning is getting exhausting!

  1. #141
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    It seems, that for some, 'winning' means having someone to supply soothing plausible lies that fit your own brand of bigotry and ignorance --

    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  2. #142
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    People can post all the silly drivel they like; bottom line is that Trump is winning.

    If there is one thing he was wrong about, it was that we'd get tired of winning. Sorry Mr. President. Still not tired.

  3. #143
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Oh... I know... the kind of winning that emboldens racists like this one --

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/white-pare...opstories.html


    White parents with black babysitter who was reported by stranger say police visit 'scared' their kid

    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  4. #144
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    For obvious reasons, no one is impressed with elderly, leisured white men pointing fingers and screaming racism. It buys them nothing but scorn.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    It doesn't appear that the population agree with you. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...oval-6179.html
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #146
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    People can post all the silly drivel they like; bottom line is that Trump is winning.

    If there is one thing he was wrong about, it was that we'd get tired of winning. Sorry Mr. President. Still not tired.
    One must admit that judgement about "winning" is rather subjective.

    President Trump's approval ratings continue at historic lows.

    We'll see how the midterms go.

    I think he'll be re-elected given the impotence of the Democratic Party and the indifference the American public gives to things like the President's habitual lying, self-aggrandizement, apparent tax fraud and lies about his Origin Story of Self-Made Man, sexual crudity and potentially predation, and similar matters. Things which are not "winning" and any one of which would have sunk any previous President. The wild card is the Mueller investigation, which continues quietly without attack from the President for weeks.

  7. #147
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    For obvious reasons, no one is impressed with elderly, leisured white men pointing fingers and screaming racism. It buys them nothing but scorn.
    I'm neither elderly nor leisured, I never scream, and my mother taught me not to point, but my friends who are African-American and Asian actually appreciate it when I acknowledge the racism they encounter. They also appreciate acknowledgement that things have worsened under Presdient Trump, and that he does not speak for them nor support them.

  8. #148
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Vote as my signature and will be well. Don't, and it won't.
    Gerard>
    ​Freeland, WA

    Resistance is NOT futile.

  9. #149
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Putin; Pinochet; Saddam; Mugabe; Franco; Assad; Hitler; Kim Jong-Un, Madoff; Berlusconi; Milosevic; Capone.....

    Yee-hah!! Nothing like a winner!
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

  10. #150
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross
    I'm neither elderly nor leisured, I never scream, and my mother taught me not to point, but my friends who are African-American and Asian actually appreciate it when I acknowledge the racism they encounter. They also appreciate acknowledgement that things have worsened under President Trump, and that he does not speak for them nor support them.
    The same here. I actually work daily, shoulder to shoulder, with African Americans, Latino Americans and people of other American minority groups. Does Sky Blue?

    His/her/its spittle flecked raving is exhausting.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  11. #151
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    I stand corrected, Cris. Thank you for your anecdote.

    It truly is amazing. Though this Forum appears to be populated almost exclusively with older, white men, there apparently is not a single racist among them (so long as they publicly identify as Democrat, that is). Indeed, in light of the utter the lack of diversity, it might be the world's formost collection of such men. It is pure enough that fingerpointing occurs with abandon; the safe space to end all safe spaces.

    I don't buy it for a moment. I don't think "real world" would either.
    Last edited by Sky Blue; 10-11-2018 at 08:35 AM.

  12. #152
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    I mean, think of it. You can point fingers in an online community, build consensus on that, and boom.

    Your own bona fides have been established, while the "bad guys" are identified.

    Problem solved! Me pure, you bad! All with a couple of keystrokes and clicks! Perfect!

  13. #153
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    All this 'winning'... or the false belief that there is winning happening stems from a form of laziness - according to neuroscientists --

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/10/neu...e-trumps-lies/
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  14. #154
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    So much winning, we can barely stand it.

    AND... we seem to be poised for more much like it --

    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  15. #155
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Ford Motor Company says Trump's trade war has cost it $1 Billion in profits so far. The CEO says the tariffs could do even “more damage” if the disputes aren’t resolved quickly.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  16. #156
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    I mean, think of it. You can point fingers in an online community, build consensus on that, and boom.

    Your own bona fides have been established, while the "bad guys" are identified.

    Problem solved! Me pure, you bad! All with a couple of keystrokes and clicks! Perfect!
    I suppose the alternative is silence.

    Or in Trumpworld, raging on and dogwhistling about NFL players kneeling and #himtoo.

    I guess I’ll accept the virtue signaling risk, and say racism and sexism is bad.

  17. #157
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    In Trumpworld... 'winning' is getting people to believe your lies --

    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  18. #158
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I suppose the alternative is silence.

    Or in Trumpworld, raging on and dogwhistling about NFL players kneeling and #himtoo.

    I guess I’ll accept the virtue signaling risk, and say racism and sexism is bad.
    Kinda like saying Nazi's are bad. I'd add that one.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  19. #159
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Kinda like saying Nazi's are bad. I'd add that one.
    Seems like tablestakes.

  20. #160
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Hitler never really said that. Nor did Goebbels.

    In Mein Kampf Hitler accused the jews of utilizing the "big lie" by placing the responsibility of losing WWI on Leudendorff. Goebbles wrote an article accusing the English leadership of routinely employing "the big lie."

    That does not alter the fact that the Nazis used the big lie to demonize European Jewry.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  21. #161
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Hitler never really said that. Nor did Goebbels.

    In Mein Kampf Hitler accused the jews of utilizing the "big lie" by placing the responsibility of losing WWI on Leudendorff. Goebbles wrote an article accusing the English leadership of routinely employing "the big lie."

    That does not alter the fact that the Nazis used the big lie to demonize European Jewry.
    More of a paraphrase than a quote, apparently...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...0092910AACOZuI
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  22. #162
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    It appears that, for some, 'winning' means admitting that Vader IS your father... and your destiny --

    https://www.thenation.com/article/do...cas-dark-side/


    " How did America’s ideals become so twisted? And how do we regain our nobility of purpose? One thing is certain: The current path, the one of ever greater military spending, of border walls and extreme vetting, of vilification of the Other, justified in terms of toughness and “winning,” will lead only to further violence—and darker (k)nights."

    William J. Astore is a retired lieutenant colonel (USAF). He has taught at the Air Force Academy and the Naval Postgraduate School, and now teaches history at the Pennsylvania College of Technology.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  23. #163
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Though this Forum appears to be populated almost exclusively with older, white men, there apparently is not a single racist among them (so long as they publicly identify as Democrat, that is). Indeed, in light of the utter the lack of diversity, it might be the world's formost collection of such men.
    I have you on ignore, SB ... but I read this one, because you posted two rants consecutively.

    Boating, yachting, dinghy sailing, boat-building, is about privilege. If you need to go sail for your job, that's different. But sailing (or building) for pleasure infers free time. It screams spare cash. Something you want to DO.

    Not something you HAVE to do.

    I am - therefore - utterly unsurprised that, today, it's an "older white male thing". We see that present here.

    Maybe, just maybe, if our institutionalised, racist and sexist societies disappeared, then sailing for pleasure would still be a pleasure for both sexes, all ethnic origins.

    That 'people here' are way more inclusive and balanced than you, even though they benefited from 'privilege' (and now argue against social mories of the time when they were younger, white men) tells me more about you than it does about them.

    Do you get it, yet?

    Don't bother repyling. You're still ignored.

    But have a think, maybe?

    Andy
    "We were schooner-rigged and rakish, with a long and lissome hull ..."

  24. #164
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    I dunno..... seems like

    https://youtu.be/RfHnzYEHAow

    BTW.... one of those characters is kablooie, I'm purty sure...
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  25. #165
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    I have you on ignore, SB ... but I read this one, because you posted two rants consecutively.

    Boating, yachting, dinghy sailing, boat-building, is about privilege. If you need to go sail for your job, that's different. But sailing (or building) for pleasure infers free time. It screams spare cash. Something you want to DO.

    Not something you HAVE to do.

    I am - therefore - utterly unsurprised that, today, it's an "older white male thing". We see that present here.

    Maybe, just maybe, if our institutionalised, racist and sexist societies disappeared, then sailing for pleasure would still be a pleasure for both sexes, all ethnic origins.

    That 'people here' are way more inclusive and balanced than you, even though they benefited from 'privilege' (and now argue against social mories of the time when they were younger, white men) tells me more about you than it does about them.

    Do you get it, yet?

    Don't bother repyling. You're still ignored.

    But have a think, maybe?

    Andy
    Andy, I suspect that you read all of my content.

    I'm glad it reaches you. Try not to take it personally. It's billboard stuff. If people want to opt-in, that's up to them.

    Elderly white men, leisured and enjoying a living standard unimaginable to their ancestors, popping off on the internet about racism, pointing fingers at other white people (in a forum comprised almost exclusively with white people), is simply insulting. I'm going to call it out. It buys nothing from me. And I suggest that I've thought as much about this issue as anyone, including you.

    The fact that you find the content upsetting says something. About you (I suggest). Think about it.

  26. #166
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Look up the word "supercilious" and you'll find a link to one of Sky Blue's WBF Bilge posts.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  27. #167
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Andy, I suspect that you read all of my content.

    I'm glad it reaches you. Try not to take it personally. It's billboard stuff. If people want to opt-in, that's up to them.

    Elderly white men, leisured and enjoying a living standard unimaginable to their ancestors, popping off on the internet about racism, pointing fingers at other white people (in a forum comprised almost exclusively with white people), is simply insulting. I'm going to call it out. It buys nothing from me. And I suggest that I've thought as much about this issue as anyone, including you.

    The fact that you find the content upsetting says something. About you (I suggest). Think about it.
    You've got to admit Sky Blue, bilge lefties provides a boatload of entertainment!

    But, can you imagine being so intellectually insecure as to wall yourself into an ideological bubble, so that your narrow minded thinking won't be challenged?

  28. #168
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    You've got to admit Sky Blue, bilge lefties provides a boatload of entertainment!

    But, can you imagine being so intellectually insecure as to wall yourself into an ideological bubble, so that your narrow minded thinking won't be challenged?
    It's all about comfort and security. A "safe space."

    I personally would be bored coming to a place everyday where my views enjoyed consensus with people parroting the same crap day in and day out, year after year.

    So yes, it is entertaining for the dissenter. Mostly fun, too!

  29. #169
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Dunno, but I come here partly for interesting exchange of ideas.

    Still waiting for Rick-MI to tell us where Real Conservatives are going to reduce federal spending.

    I’m afraid I’m going to be left waiting, or instead hear some vague political bravado, like that of an archer without a target.

  30. #170
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross
    Dunno, but I come here partly for interesting exchange of ideas.

    Still waiting for Rick-MI to tell us where Real Conservatives are going to reduce federal spending.
    I'm not one to continue ad infinitum, particularly when I clearly illustrated that every point you made supported my original contention about RINOs and democrats.

    It's painfully obvious that you have no understanding about the movement toward financial responsibility by representatives illustrated by those in the Freedom Caucus. For crying out loud, a quote of John Boehner of all sources to attack real fiscal conservatives demonstrates that you don't have the slightest grasp on what the Tea Party principles, fiscal responsibility and genuine conservatism stands for!

    Without question, by demonstration, you represent fiscal irresponsibility and the status quo which got us in this mess. Someone who claims to be highly educated in financial matters shouldn't have to have it explained to him that this course is unsustainable and that his defense of the one or both sides of the same coin is futility.

    The truth is, your big government mentality is part of the problem which must be overcome. The good news on that front is we are showing signs of progress.

    Finally, I'm the one who on this thread brought up the problem with discretionary spending cuts as an impossibility to solve the problem by itself with 3 specific points and the implications if that were to be attempted. If you missed it, it's not my problem and I'm not repeating what's already been said.

    After those three specific reasons, I alluded to the strategy President Trump is pursuing, which is the only viable approach (albeit a long shot). The only thing that will avoid a painful reset by default is to put a lid on spending growth and grow the economy out of it. Unfortunately, with the current composition of congress and leadership as it stands on both sides of the aisle. it's an impossibility. Every other option from your big government, big spending, establishment perspective is absolutely, 100% doomed to failure with no chance of success. People of your mentality will continue the present course until the point of implosion.

    Which once again, brings us back to the original problem of too many RINOs and democrats. You're going to have to research waaaaay beyond Facebook or some simple 'link to think' in order understand how genuine conservatives like Jim Jordan as Speaker, vs a globalist RINO like Paul Ryan or Venezuela style Speaker like Nancy Pelosi would get a handle on our obscene level of spending and waste.

  31. #171
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Irony is dead...
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  32. #172
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  33. #173
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    I'm not one to continue ad infinitum...
    Well....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    It's painfully obvious that you have no understanding about the movement toward financial responsibility by representatives illustrated by those in the Freedom Caucus.
    I think I understand them. I'm a fiscal conservative, and I'd be interested in ideas they might bring to the table. Alas, the Freedom Caucus is long on words and short on ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    Without question, by demonstration, you represent fiscal irresponsibility and the status quo which got us in this mess.
    I don't think so.

    Specifically, I would favor: 1. A healthcare policy that would reduce growth of healthcare expenses. We have no such thing. 2. Modifications to Social Security which would make it more of an insurance program for those with lower income and less of an entitlement program for those with higher income. 3. Reduction in defense spending. You don't like being a globalist? Stop running a globalist military. 4. Require that states and localities bear more cost of infrastructure programs. 5. Restraint in discretionary spending. 6. Tie taxes to spending. Run balanced budgets or slight surpluses to reduce the cost of borrowing. Make the cost of spending visible. If we are going to spend 19% of GDP instead of 18%, then taxes need to be 19% of GDP. No free lunch, no smoke and mirrors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    Finally, I'm the one who on this thread brought up the problem with discretionary spending cuts as an impossibility to solve the problem by itself with 3 specific points and the implications if that were to be attempted.
    Yes you did. And so did I, posting exactly where we spend our money. A nice agreement. You can't cut the deficit without doing something structural.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    After those three specific reasons, I alluded to the strategy President Trump is pursuing, which is the only viable approach (albeit a long shot). The only thing that will avoid a painful reset by default is to put a lid on spending growth and grow the economy out of it.
    Whoopsie.

    See, there were "Freedom Caucus"-like guys around thirty years ago when I worked in Congress. "Freeze spending and grow out of it" is a VERY old and VERY discredited idea.

    Freezing discretionary spending? Sure you can do that but we both agree it amounts to nothing.

    Freeze defense? Oh no, of course not.

    Freeze healthcare? Sure, let's do that! How? Just stop paying doctors and hospitals so much! Well, we did that for about 25 years in a game of chicken - Congress capped Medicare reimbursement rates for next year. Then as we approached the coming year, and it meant that the local small town hospital would see its revenue cut by 10% and go bankrupt, Congress would adjust the "SGR" and we'd spend just like before. There needs to be an actual set of policies to address healthcare cost inflation. We haven't had one in our lifetimes under Democrats or Republicans.

    Freeze Social Security? Hell no!!!

    Freeze interest payments on the debt? When people learn that means "default" it goes away.

    What's left? Income security for the deeply poor and disabled, and discretionary spending.

    Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Freedom Caucus guys have a secret plan for structural reform of entitlements. What's the plan except to freeze the unfreezable?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    Every other option from your big government, big spending, establishment perspective is absolutely, 100% doomed to failure with no chance of success. People of your mentality will continue the present course until the point of implosion.
    You sure seem to know a lot about what I think.

    I gave six ways I'd reduce the size of government, structurally. I am not a "big government, big spending, establishment perspective" kind of guy. And I'm not a "magical thinking" kind of guy, which is what "Freeze and grow" is all about, and has been, for decades.

    You've given me "lid on spending and grow out of it" which in the past has always meant "cut taxes to encourage growth". We've tried that a bunch of times. How did it go?

  34. #174
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    Here's a professional view from the Congressional Budget Office:

    IMG_0346.jpg

    This was produced in December 2016 to help the new Congress wrestle with choices. This is before the tax cut bill in 2017, obviously.

    We've consistently taxed less than we've spent. We just took taxes down, so this chart presents an even more complex problem.

    But here's the rub: expenses in healthcare and social security are going to increase by a lot, because of demographic changes. They are going to increase by more than inflation, more than even the wildest dream of GDP growth. They are going to crush our children and grandchildren.

    Here's how it looks:

    Not only are deficits and debt projected to be greater in coming years, but the United States also is on track to have a federal budget that will look very different from budgets of the past. Under current law, in 2026 spending for all federal activities other than the major health care programs and Social Security is projected to account for its smallest share of GDP since 1962. At the same time, revenues would represent a larger percentage of GDP in the future—averaging 18.3 percent of GDP over the 2017–2026 period—than they generally have in the past few decades. Despite those trends, revenues would not keep pace with outlays under current law because the government’s major health care programs (particularly Medicare) and Social Security would absorb a much larger share of the economy’s output in the future than they have in the past.

    https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/52142-budgetoptions.pdf

    I'm fully in favor of fiscal discipline. But if you really want to "win" you need to have a "plan" not "fluffy wishes".

  35. #175
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    Default Re: All this winning is getting exhausting!

    In my 67 years of lifetime experience, I think I can safely say that there is NO difference between liberal and conservative politicians, when it comes to spending money: they both are happy and eager to spend, but on different things. Democrats seem to be at least a bit less hypocritical, since they rarely cite 'fiscal conservatism' as one of their founding principles. Conservatives cite 'fiscal conservatism' often... but rarely every find an over priced and under-performing military hardware system they don't like.

    The one part of this discussion that interests me most is Social Security. Far too many people don't understand what Social Security really is (an insurance program... it's right in the official name!). It should come as NO surprise that shifting demographics changes the economic balance of the system, requiring adjustments to keep the program solvent... and the wave of baby boomer retirements is one such change.

    The problem, however, is one of the easiest government problems to solve; it requires adjustments to the parameters of the system... small adjustments... to keep the program solvent. We could, for example, raise the earnings cap on contributions slightly... reform the rate of cost of living increases a little... increase the retirement age a little bit... all together, small adjustments would solve the problem.

    To me, the BEST solution, proposed by an economist a few years back, is brilliantly simple, and virtually painless. This guy suggested the following: that we raise the retirement age by one month, each year, for the next 12 years. So, if the age is 66 now, it would be 66 and one month next year, 66 and two months, the year after that, and so on... until it reaches 67. According to his analysis, doing just this would make SS solvent in perpetuity... and the cost (an increase in the retirement age) corresponds to the plain fact that people are living longer, and remaining healthy longer.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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