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Thread: Sooty Tern No. 93

  1. #281
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    11. The brand-new, not-yet-out-of-the-packet-brand, bit


    CMT adjustable countersink bit by Alexander Newman
    Part the third:

    12. I bought some replacement bolts, nuts and washers - 304 stainless steel this time so less chance of rusting in situ, as the original zinc-plated ones did


    M4 x 20 bolts, spring washers and nyloc nuts for tablesaw crosscut fence by Alexander Newman


    13. Really nice clean cut in the laminate-clad MDF alternative. Unfortunately, much to my surprise (I assumed being the top of the sheet that it wouldn't have) it was bent like a banana so all my careful measuring went to nowt. And since the big tablesaw is down for repairs (broken table insert) and I wasn't going to dismantle the painstakingly setup up and adjusted Triton in its crosscut mode, that had to be rejected. I was not pleased


    Closeup of countersink by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    14. So here is the pine alternative:


    Countersink and M4 stainless steel retaining bolt in pine fence face by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    15. New countersink bit after drilling and cutting the pine version of the fence. I have since cleaned it up and put it away, you will be surprised to note


    CMT carbide countersink bit - clamps onto drill bit by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    16. New faceplate installed on the fence. It still needed some tweaking with block plane and sandpaper, but I wasn't going to wreck an expensive new Veritas block-plane blade on the laminate version of the fence


    Radiata pine fence face alternative by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    But wait, there's more...
    Last edited by Alex1N; 03-02-2021 at 08:33 PM.

  2. #282
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Looking good.

  3. #283
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Ye Catch-up Post, Part the Fourth

    17. Fence installed on the tablesaw


    Working side of crosscut fence by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    18. The LVL to be chopped up, in place snug against the fence. The stop in the background is set to 830 mm from the kerf-edge of the blade


    Building frame LVL snug up against repaired fence by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    19. Just to 'prove' that the fence and the LVL are both straight. Actually it does neither, but take it from me that they both are


    Both fence and LVL are nice and straight by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    20. Just after the bushfires and before the first COVID-19 lockdown, I got this in exchange for some firewood


    Kedge/Admiralty-type anchor for Sooty Tern - stock folded by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    21. Here it is with its stock unfolded


    Kedge/Admiralty-type anchor for Sooty Tern - stock unfolded by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    22.
    Anchor fluke by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    This doesn't mean that I will be making any further 'progress', as something always seems to happen to deflect any start on the boat. It's uncanny. I really need a good length of time to glue up the stem apron, or to cut more laminates for the other three stem parts, or to make the building frame up, etc., which I never seem to get, no matter how cunningly I plan. I have been stretched very thinly with other things since the wrist injury and over the COVID-19 'break', and I suspect that I need to rationalise a few of them if I really want to get back to work on the boat. Still, you never know - I've got as far as posting this. Just don't hold your breath.

    NOTE: I appear to have missed out a post - that is now fixed, but you may want to check back to page eight in case you missed it...
    You can never have too many clamps

  4. #284
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Hi Alex,

    Great to see you back: you have certainly been in the wars.

    Looking forward to following along with the build.

    Cheers
    PeterW

  5. #285
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Looking good.
    Thanks, bluedog225.

    Update Post part Five.

    Right, well, I appear to have missed the grand unveiling of the hull moulds. Tut tut. It's going here as I'm not going to go through the palaver of bumping four posts down intact. Three was bad enough, and I lost some witty (not really) scrawlings). Numbering continues from the previous post. Here 'tis, knaves and knave-esses*:


    23. I decided to use by shiny new day-glo sawhorses to set up a temporary bench for cutting out the moulds


    Sawhorses with side rails - instant bench by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    24. I had some corrections to do on the outlines - in this particular case, moving Mould No. 1 20-odd mm to the right

    Section 1 redrawing complete by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    25. The bench didnae work well 'nuff, so I set up to do it on the floor, using lengths o' wood


    Back down to the lofting boards again by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    26. Here's Mould No. 4 cut out roughly. This was the first one to be liberate. And there was great rejoicing


    Mould 4 cut out by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    27. The cut was a bit lumpy...


    More kinks than Sid Snake! by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.



    28. Moulds Nos. 1 - 4 rough-cut


    Moulds 1 - 4 cut out by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.



    *I have been rather stressed by re-adapting to this forum, so the odd bit of more-than-usual weirdness likes this is liable to crop up. It doesn't mean nuffin**

    ** See * above
    You can never have too many clamps

  6. #286
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Update Post, Part Ye Sixf:

    29. Moulds No.s 5 - 7 also rough-cut


    Moulds 5 - 7 by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    30. Cutting out various other templates (centreboard case, rudder(s), etc.


    Setting up to slice up the MDF rudder/centreboard template sheet by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    31. Centreboard case template cut out


    Centreboard case template by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    32. Hard yards...


    Mould no. 3 after a bit of planing and sanding by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    33. The planks are marked in here, and the outline cut down to the outline using the new Festool jigsaw. Well, it was new when I started this


    Mould 4 at filled undercut region after trimming by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    34. All moulds marked and trimmed. Nos. 1 - 5 are at the back, of course


    Mould trimming ‘complete’ by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    OK, that's things up-to-date, in a backwards sort of way.

    I shall go quiet again for a bit, now (probably).
    You can never have too many clamps

  7. #287
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterWidders View Post
    Hi Alex,

    Great to see you back: you have certainly been in the wars.

    Looking forward to following along with the build.

    Cheers
    Thanks for your kind words, Peter. Bumping along, some fairly careful planning and rearranging of activities coming up!

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    You can never have too many clamps

  8. #288
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Back on the boat. That´s nice.

  9. #289
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Good to see you are making progress, Alex, after all your set-backs. Nice Oregon laminations, flat-sawn and all.
    Looking back at your sharpening photos, do you flatten the back of the blade before you hone the bevel?
    I suppose the Triton people use MDF on their fence because it is easily replaceable. Well, that's the theory anyway.
    After you have set up the moulds, if you check the plank-lines with battens along the marks, it won't matter if some of the marks are a millimetre or two out, you can bypass those ones with the battens. Just use your best eye, looking along each batten, to see that the lines are fair. I have found that Iain's marks are pretty good that way, but remember that the off-set table is usually made by measuring from the scale drawing.
    Keep up the good work!
    Cheers,
    Ian
    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  10. #290
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by Max F View Post
    Back on the boat. That´s nice.
    Hallo, Max, thanks! Looks may be deceptive, however - this set of posts is really just a bit of a summary from well over a year ago that never made it to this thread for one reason and another.

    Anyway, Catch-up Post, The Last Gasp:

    My rusty memory is being prodded by by reviewing my Sooty Tern Flickr album a bit more closely. It looks as though I used the also then-new Festool Rotex 90 orbital sander to grind down to the lines on the moulds. That was over 17 months ago, so it is perhaps not all that surprising that I forgot...

    35. Here's a snap of the jigsaw and the Rotex


    Jigsaw and RO sander by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    36. More plank lines


    More plank lines by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    37. I also drew in the keelson and apron cutouts on the moulds - this is the keelson cutout on Mould No. 3, the horizontal line above that is the DWL


    Mould 3 apron cutout marked by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    38. Oops! I went too far with the jigsaw, down past the sheerline and taking off the little 'knee'. I'll fill that in with epoxy glue and make good one day


    Oops! Epoxy filler will fix that by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    39. Mould No. 2 after adding more useful bits of info - floor, DWL and deckbeam, as well as provisional plank lines and keelson cutout. The lines are only indicative as numerous plank edges will have depth, not a fine edge, and this affects the line. Actual angles done one (or a pair) at a time when planking.


    Mould 2 trimmed with various locators marked by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    40. Another holdover from the previous post(s) - the MDF sheet with centrecase, centreboard and rudders templates sliced up and out of the way, ready to start on the stems laminating (see previous posts for that). The templates include the one for Max's replacement rudder!


    MDF sheet sliced up and out of the way by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    I got a bit of new stuff done today, but time may be against me putting it up yet. I'll see how I go. I'll be switching back to my normal numbering system in that post. though.
    You can never have too many clamps

  11. #291
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by IanMilne View Post
    Good to see you are making progress, Alex, after all your set-backs. Nice Oregon laminations, flat-sawn and all.
    Looking back at your sharpening photos, do you flatten the back of the blade before you hone the bevel?
    I suppose the Triton people use MDF on their fence because it is easily replaceable. Well, that's the theory anyway.
    After you have set up the moulds, if you check the plank-lines with battens along the marks, it won't matter if some of the marks are a millimetre or two out, you can bypass those ones with the battens. Just use your best eye, looking along each batten, to see that the lines are fair. I have found that Iain's marks are pretty good that way, but remember that the off-set table is usually made by measuring from the scale drawing.
    Keep up the good work!
    Cheers,
    Ian
    Hello Ian, it's good to be ( a bit) back, forum snares and traps notwithstanding. Other forum setups are much easier to deal with than this one, and I have allowed myself to get spoilt a bit recently. Anyway. I usually do flatten/polish the back of the bevel/blade before starting on the cutting edge. Thanks for the advice on the fairing of the planking lines. A bit of a way away from that yet, though!

    1. Here's the first of the cross-pieces cut out. The 'top' was really just a guide - I chhecked each length before cutting and just as well. Said 'stop' was rather wobbly. A well set up radial arm saw would have been best for this, but I don't have one of those - or the bench to put on on!


    First cross-piece cut - six to go by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    2. All seven pieces cut. They are all within less than half a millimetre of each other, which will do for the purposes of the building frame - there will be much more variation in the straightness of the side LVLs, I suspect


    All seven cross-pieces cut to length by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. A quick mock-up of the building frame


    Quick building frame mock-up by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. Mock-up viewed from the other end


    Mock-up from the other end by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. All packed up, time to go home


    All packed up again by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    I have a nasty feeling that I've overlooked getting enough LVLs to account for the legs - I thought that I had that covered but after a quick squizz around the workshop I can't see anything that looks as though I will for that purpose. Hmm. I might have summat else, I will go digging next time that I'm up there. I also need to find some bits of 2 x 4 for the ledges that support the aprons at both ends.

    Well, that's it for the time being, until I've sorted out the various things that I have to do and see what can be fitted in where. That may take "some time".

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 03-03-2021 at 08:47 PM.
    You can never have too many clamps

  12. #292
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    When I built the strongback for Redwing I was right chuffed with myself...till I realized I'd built it a foot and half short. I had to splice a section in.
    ​In a world full of wonders, man invented boredom.

  13. #293
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    When I built the strongback for Redwing I was right chuffed with myself...till I realized I'd built it a foot and half short. I had to splice a section in.
    Hello WX, these things happen! There was, a least, a simple solution . I think that I've worked out what happened to the 'missing' leg timbers. I measured up one of the three 150 mm LVLs for the cross-pieces and thought, "right, that's the cross-pieces sorted". I might then have measured one or other of them at a later date for the legs and thought "that's the legs sorted", not realising that I'd double-measured and only had enough for the sides and the cross pieces (or the sides and the legs).

    Having sold my useful Mazda 3-based Premacy carry-all recently (on the sort-of promise of a sort-of replacement), I am now a little bit stuck. I'm going to have to do a bit of thinking about this as well. Oh well.

    Cheers
    Alex.
    You can never have too many clamps

  14. #294
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Aren't LVL's a bit overkill for legs? I would just use the cheapest framing timbers available. Here that would be 2x4's, roughly 75x37 for you(I think you list the dimensions upside down}.

  15. #295
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex1N View Post
    Hello WX, these things happen! There was, a least, a simple solution . I think that I've worked out what happened to the 'missing' leg timbers. I measured up one of the three 150 mm LVLs for the cross-pieces and thought, "right, that's the cross-pieces sorted". I might then have measured one or other of them at a later date for the legs and thought "that's the legs sorted", not realising that I'd double-measured and only had enough for the sides and the cross pieces (or the sides and the legs).

    Having sold my useful Mazda 3-based Premacy carry-all recently (on the sort-of promise of a sort-of replacement), I am now a little bit stuck. I'm going to have to do a bit of thinking about this as well. Oh well.

    Cheers
    Alex.
    I don't know what LVLs are but I'd be using whatever does the job. It's only the strong back, not the boat. I reckon you could use pallet timber.
    ​In a world full of wonders, man invented boredom.

  16. #296
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by ulav8r View Post
    Aren't LVL's a bit overkill for legs? I would just use the cheapest framing timbers available. Here that would be 2x4's, roughly 75x37 for you(I think you list the dimensions upside down}.
    They are overkill, but see below. Dimensions are nominally 2 x 4 or 45 x 95mm (Aust Stds probably shaved 5 mm off each dimension to save materials and money - why o)


    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I don't know what LVLs are but I'd be using whatever does the job. It's only the strong back, not the boat. I reckon you could use pallet timber.
    LVL = Laminated veneer lumber = thick narrow long plywood - sort of... I'm right out of pallets, but:


    1. I was getting my dinner just now and suddenly remembered a stack of stuff next to my lofting board, so I went and had a look. Bingo! That's where they were - I'd forgotten. LVLs for the legs, bottom left; 2x4 radiata bottom right for same?


    LVLs for the legs, bottom left; 2x4 radiata bottom right for same? by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. Overview of leg LVLs (well, one at least) - and mould spreaders


    Overview of leg LVLs - and mould spreaders by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    So that's that sorted. Whew. I'm not quite as disorganised as I thought - in some respects at least, 'just' forgetful. I'll have to check my notes as I probably wrote it down somewhere - in a notebook or in 'Things' (software to-do app).

    Thanks for your suggestions, both of you .

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 03-04-2021 at 07:28 PM.
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  17. #297
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    I've been doing a bit more on the building frame and associated things:

    1. Here's another throwback: Checking and correcting mould outlines from the plans. I found yet another use for the draughting ducks


    Checking and correcting mould outlines from the plans by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. I got a new replacement tablesaw insert - note the moulding ejector pin mounds


    New replacement tablesaw insert - note the moulding ejector pin mounds by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. Underneath of replacement insert. The ejector pin punch-marks are visible here


    Underneath of replacement insert (ejector pin dings are visible here) by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. New table insert in place after scrubbing off the high spots - more than I thought there would be. The polycarbonate version that I still intend to make up once I've got a working vacuum clear (not the woodchip vacuum) attached to the disc sander can be seen on the left. Note the very close proximity of the saw blade to the side of the insert slot...


    New table insert in place after scrubbing off the high spots (more than I thought) by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. The new and the old. The old one had the ejector pin high spots milled off before painting, during manufacture


    The new and the old by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    6. The three segments of the 42 x 90n mm LVL lined up after moving up to the workshop - total of 6 metres, possibly enough for ten legs with careful cutting


    42 x 90mm LVL lengths moved up to the workshop by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    More soon...
    You can never have too many clamps

  18. #298
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    1. I set up a stop so that I could cut 400 mm legs with a certain amount of precision. Clamping it onto the flat vertical end of the tablesaw body might have been better but I didn't think of that at the time, and what I came up with worked fine


    Setting up a stop to cut the building frame outer leg pieces, part 1 by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. The actual stop piece screwed on


    400 mm stop, part 3 by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. Working end of the stop


    400mm stop, part 2 by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. Almost ready for cutting


    Clearer view of stop in action by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. Having cut the main parts for the legs, I set up a simpler stop for the leg 'infills' - a small block of wood with the stop end cut square and clamped to the crosscut fence


    Much simpler 250mm stop for leg backings - block of wood clamped to the fence by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    6. All ten main legs cut, I ran out of wood after cutting seven of the infills. I had originally allowed 200mm each for the (probably unnecessary*) infills, thinking at the time that the main bearers were 200mm. They are in fact 150mm, so I fell a wee bit short in my calculations. To be completed at a later date


    10 x 400mm legs, 7 x 250mm leg backings (I ran out of wood) by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    I've got some sorting out and tidying up to do in the workshop before I can go much further - not shown here but there's stuff still on the floor at the back after last year's flood, and the various things are getting in the way of safe movement (I keep tripping up on it). I also need to do some more tidying of the shed at home so that I can get on with glueing up the stem parts, which tasks I am still avoiding like the plague. I'll get there eventually, though.

    Cheers,
    Alex.

    * But I'm thinking ahead to a possible future project - waste not, want not...
    Last edited by Alex1N; 03-14-2021 at 07:52 PM.
    You can never have too many clamps

  19. #299
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    I braved setting out in the teeth of the current exceedingly wet East Coast Low (pressure system) this morning and finished off some cutting, so now something of a milestone has been reached with the completion of the current round of activity:

    1. All main parts for the building frame cut to length


    All main parts for the building frame cut to length by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. Getting ready to cut up an LVL for more Manning bench bits - and getting closer to clearing the decks to put up the building frame! I've realised that some of the wood in that cluster that contained the legs LVL bits (see post #296, photo 1 above) also has some raw material for Manning bench parts...


    Getting ready to cut up an LVL for more Manning bench bits by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. 200mm x 6-metre LVL cut into three equal-ish lengths - the right-most set of three in this snap. That gives me the main parts for two Manning bench and 'anvil' sets - minus the legs (see caption for photo 2 above, and the somewhat longer lengths of board behind the front stack of six


    6-metre LVL cut into three equal lengths by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. Just the building frame bearers left, awaiting assembly. The Triton has been trundled out of the way (see below() and the floor swept (a bit), thus more-or-less clearing the decks


    Just the building frame bearers left, awaiting assembly by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. Triton converted from tablesaw mode to router table mode - and tucked back out of the way. I'm currently trawling though my various Triton manuals to find the specific installation instructions for the Triton router (the router carrier is currently set up for the Elu); the Triton router has a bit better dust extraction. The Triton will pretty well stay set up like this unless something really unexpected and untoward happens to the bigger Carbatec saw (again)


    Triton converted from tablesaw mode to router table mode - and tucked back out of the way by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    6. Mock-up of building frame leg. I brought the parts for a couple of legs home with me to work out the best way of pre-assembling the legs. As will be obvious, the bearers will sit in the 'notch', the legs being fastened to the bearers using galvanised coach screws. The aim of the exercise is to make the building frame as heavy as possible (as opposed to making the boat as light as possible) so that any tendency for the frame to walk about under its own steam will be reduced as much as possible


    Mock-up of building frame leg by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    I also had another go at tidying the shed at home this arvo, so that I can stop avoiding glueing up the bow apron - got a bit done, still a lot to do. The next tasks will be to assemble building frame and the legs, and joining the two thingses together.

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 03-20-2021 at 02:50 AM.
    You can never have too many clamps

  20. #300
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    More pencil sharpening:

    I've got a bit more done:

    1. I made a little jig for churning out building frame legs:


    Leg jig finished. Does it work? by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. Did it work? sort of - the first one was a bit skew and got rejigged - in the rejigged jig...


    The first one wasn’t so good - this will get redone by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. The rejigged jig with additional stop


    Additional stop at top end of leg to keep the larger piece from roaming about when drilling and fixing by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. Done - all ten legs finished


    Done! Ten legs for the decapod! by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. Decapod...


    A decapod - main bearers with the legs perched on them by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    6. Quick check for straightness on one side


    Quick check for straightness on one side by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    The legs may be pretty well the same length (to the nearest half-millimetre), but the floor, of course, is a completely different bucket of snakes. There will need to be a bit o' chocking here and there.

    A lot more pencils where they came from. Ah ha ha ha ha ha.
    You can never have too many clamps

  21. #301
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    1.
    Leg positions provisionally marked, cross-bearers temporarily placed again by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. Before I started marking in critical positions, such as mould stations and the aft perpendicular (the forward one more or less taking care of itself, being the top end corners of the two main bearers - as long as they were level), I thought that I'd better check the clamped bearers with a string line to see if they were straight Ione of them has a slight bow. Here's the chalkline used to check with:


    Chalk/string line on the left used to check straightness of clamped main bearers by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. They were straight


    The bearers ended up straight when clamped together. Note the ‘FP’ for forward perpendicular by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. Length of DAR wood on top of the bearers is for the stem supports at the fore and aft perpendiculars. it's overly good quality for the purpose, but I'm going ahead and using it anyway

    Length of DAR wood on top of the bearers is for the stem supports at the fore and aft perpendiculars by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. Angle clamps trotted out from their hiding place


    Angle clamps trotted out help assemble the building frame by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    6. Nice straight square piece of wood. The mould stations, aft perpendicular, stem support and leg positions have all been marked on the tops of the bearers at this point; this snap isn't entirely gratuitous and unnceccessary...


    Nice straight square piece of wood. The mould stations, aft perpendicular, stem support and leg positions have all been marked on the tops of the bearers at this point by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    Cheers,
    Alex.
    You can never have too many clamps

  22. #302
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    It looks as though I may be the winner of the prize for the most boring thread on WBF (or anywhere else, for that matter) with this one. It's a useful log for me, at any rate.

    Anyway, this post and the next are slightly different, in that they actually show some PROGRESS! Well, you be can be the judge of that:

    1.
    Ready to start glueing the bow apron by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. Another boring snap...the laminates for the apron can be seen here, however:


    Laminates lined up for glueing by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. All twelve internal faces primed with neat resin mixture


    All twelve internal faces primed with neat resin mixture by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. Closer view of the resin-primed laminates. I used the middle of the lengths of oregon rather than starting at one end, in order to have some leverage either side. In the end, I don't think that it mattered...


    Closer view of the resin-primed laminates by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. Brush, stirring paddle (tongue depressor) and severely worn brush


    Primed laminates (oregon, Douglas fir) by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    6. I put this photo in because it looks nice (to me, anyway)


    Douglas fir laminates by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    More soon...
    You can never have too many clamps

  23. #303
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    OK, kids! Excitement time!

    1. For those who use WEST products, here is the Australian 'Bote-Cote' version of a high-strength glueing powder. Works a treat, also with WEST resin


    Bote-Cote high-strength filler (glue) powder by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. The glue, not quite ready for use as it needs further stirring to get rid of the remaining lumps. I'm using the new-formulation (uncoloured crystal-clear) Bote-Cote resin here


    Roughly-mixed glue - needs more stirring yet by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. Here we are! The boat is officially started - since I have started sticking bits together:


    First squeeze... by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. Bit of cleaning up of excess glue required here; I rather overdid it with the glue. I wasn't quite sure what was going to happen, since this is the largest-scale lamination that I have ever undertaken. Glue ended up everywhere, especially squeezing out from underneath


    Bit of cleaning up of excess glue required now by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. View from the other end after quite a bit of scraping. I'll try using a less thick mix for the next stem part (the outer bow stem) to see if that will help speed up the glue application - and the amount used


    View from the other end after quite a bit of scraping. I think that I used a bit too much glue... by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    6. Closer-up view of the sternwards end of the bow apron


    Closer view of the other (sternwards) end by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.

    I've left the thing to set up for a couple of days, and will undo the clamps later this arvo. I now need to cut some more strips for the bow stem and the stern parts - which won't happen until tomorrow at the very earliest. If I miss tomorrow, then it will be more like Tuesday (Aus time). Speaking of time, we go off Daylight Saving Time early tomorrow (Sunday) morning, hooray!

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    You can never have too many clamps

  24. #304
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Hey Alex
    I raise a glas on to the first real boat parts. (Coffe right now, that early in the mornig )
    Hooorraaayy!
    And just remember: Squeeze out is boatbuilders friend!
    Allways better than a starving glue joint.
    Keep it going mate!

  25. #305
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Hi Alex,
    Yes, it's great to see that you have started sticking bits together. As Max says, the squeeze-out shows that you have used enough glue. Later on, you can use it for filleting previous parts.
    You are right to leave some extra length in your laminations, so that you can continue the curve past the ends of what will be the finished piece. The laminations always straighten out between the last supporting block and the next one.
    We go off daylight-saving time tonight too.
    Cheers,
    Ian
    Last edited by IanMilne; 04-03-2021 at 01:16 AM. Reason: font
    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  26. #306
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by Max F View Post
    Hey Alex
    I raise a glas on to the first real boat parts. (Coffe right now, that early in the mornig )
    Hooorraaayy!
    And just remember: Squeeze out is boatbuilders friend!
    Allways better than a starving glue joint.
    Keep it going mate!
    Thanks Max! The joints certainly weren't starved - as well as priming both joint sides, both side got a hefty coat of glue - I ended up with at least a quarter of the mixing tub full of ungelled scrapings.


    Quote Originally Posted by IanMilne View Post
    Hi Alex,
    Yes, it's great to see that you have started sticking bits together. As Max says, the squeeze-out shows that you have used enough glue. Later on, you can use it for filleting previous parts.
    You are right to leave some extra length in your laminations, so that you can continue the curve past the ends of what will be the finished piece. The laminations always straighten out between the last supporting block and the next one.

    We go off daylight-saving time tonight too.
    Cheers,
    Ian
    Thank you too, Ian! I'll continue to leave quite a bit on the strips, then - I have plans for the offcuts in any case. I will also leave the apron uncut (and suitably taped) for clamping the tails of the stem laminations onto. As to the glue, see below. I was thinking that you would be off DST too, tonight. I heard that Europe had cancelled it, but I may have misheard or been fed a pack o' lies, the internet being what it is...

    I just got the clamps off...

    1. Glue ooze from under the outer face of the apron.


    Glue ooze from underneath by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. And on the other side, nearby


    Squeeze-out on the other side by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. Clamps away!


    Clamps away! by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. The part is still being held in place by blobs of glue. There was a bit of springback when I finally got it unstuck, but less than I was fearing


    The part is still being held in place by blobs o’ glue by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. There was quite a lot of glue...


    The laminations ended up floating on a flood of glue by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    6. Some parts of the glue flood were deeper than others


    Some parts of the glue flood were deeper than others by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    I had a bit of trouble getting the level right on all strips - some rode up (especially towards the sheerline end, where there is a noticeable twist) and no amount of whacking with a hammer and block of wood would bring them right down. I didn't want to undo it all either. I won't know the full nature of this problem until I get the glue off - it's current still rather labile, possibly something to do with the new resin formulation, I suspect, or I'm being forgetful of the amount of time to full cure and/or impatient. I made the staves overwidth by a good margin in case of errors, and am glad that I did. Care and time will be needed in getting things flat and parallel!

    When I cut the next lot of strips, they will be about a millimetre thinner - around 3mm, as opposed to 4-5 mm of the current batch. And more carefully cut, to boot. I'll lose a bit more wood to extra cuts, but the strips will hopefully be a lot more manageable. Added to which, I will number the strips as they come off the saw, so that I can get the order right when it comes time to putting them down on the board.

    Journey of ten thousand miles and all that...

    Just a (foot)note in passing - the way that the forum is set up is driving me up the wall . It took a while to track down an emojum that was lurking in a quoted message to shut up its complaint about too many images. I likewise whinged to the forum admin about this and half a dozen other things a while back, so I am now probably on his (or her) blacklist. They publicly state that they don't like complaints, but that's a really good way of avoiding fixing things that are broken (like the 'r' without a fullstop at the end of a line generating an image-counting emojum).
    Last edited by Alex1N; 04-03-2021 at 02:59 AM.
    You can never have too many clamps

  27. #307
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Well done, Alex. The thinner you cut the laminations, the more glue you will have to use. Iain O says that the spring-back will not be significant with five or more laminations. It's good that you left enough extra width for cleaning up the edges.

    I found it rather daunting when I found that the first parts of my Eun na Mara Islesburgh I had to make were the laminated frames.

    Cheers,
    Ian
    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  28. #308
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Alex the text under each picture is counted as a picture itself.
    Same with smileys and so on.
    To get more pictures into each post I go to preview and erase these text lables.
    Tadaaa suddenly you can post more pictures.
    Nice lamination Mate!

  29. #309
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Good to see production has started , well done. I make my laminations with extra siding ( sorta width of the the strips, not thickness) so that when I get my old electric plane out to clean up the goo I have plenty of clearance before eating into the finished width. Also helps when the strips slip. I’m watching other vids where they wrap the lam in plastic then clamp it on the form. Saves getting the goo everywhere. Dunno if I’m keen on that cos you can’t see what’s going on.
    I use boat cote too but what’s the deal with the crystal clear ?
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 04-03-2021 at 06:36 PM.

  30. #310
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by IanMilne View Post
    Well done, Alex. The thinner you cut the laminations, the more glue you will have to use. Iain O says that the spring-back will not be significant with five or more laminations. It's good that you left enough extra width for cleaning up the edges.

    I found it rather daunting when I found that the first parts of my Eun na Mara Islesburgh I had to make were the laminated frames.

    Cheers,
    Ian
    Thanks, Ian. I finally got fed up with feeding the pencil sharpener! 3 mm will be my lowest limit on lamination thickness. I have been tiptoeing around this one for months, finding it more than daunting!


    Quote Originally Posted by Max F View Post
    Alex the text under each picture is counted as a picture itself.
    Same with smileys and so on.
    To get more pictures into each post I go to preview and erase these text lables.
    Tadaaa suddenly you can post more pictures.
    Nice lamination Mate!
    Thanks for the useful advice on images, Max. Iand for your kinds words.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    Good to see production has started , well done. I make my laminations with extra siding ( sorta width of the the strips, not thickness) so that when I get my old electric plane out to clean up the goo I have plenty of clearance before eating into the finished width. Also helps when the strips slip. I’m watching other vids where they wrap the lam in plastic then clamp it on the form. Saves getting the goo everywhere. Dunno if I’m keen on that cos you can’t see what’s going on.
    I use boat cote too but what’s the deal with the crystal clear ?
    Thank you too, Andrew. I agree with you regarding wrapping the laminates - as it is, the board is covered in 200 um polyethylene sheet, and the blocks in clear packaging tape, so the apron more-or-less popped straight off. That should be even easier with the stem moulded on the apron - once I've cleaned up the latter and taped it on the outer face (and cut some more wood!).

    Regarding the Bote-Cote, the new stuff is see-though (like WEST's) and colourless, see below. The version before this new one would go a non-transparent whitish colour if it was more than a millimetre thick, although that was somewhat moot in practice as I never got that think when rolling opr painting the stuff on. The main thing for me is lack of tint in the resin now.

    New-formulation Bore-Cote resin with their non-yellowing hardener (which I always use with Bote-Cote)


    New-formulation Bote-Cote resin - clear by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    Closer view of the clearer Bote-Cote epoxy, note the visible lofting-board waterline under it. The green tint visible in the photo is not observable by me in real life


    Closer view of the clearer Bote-Cote epoxy by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    I hope that that is sufficiently useful/explanatory.

    Plans to get wood cut on the weekend were derailed by holiday traffic between here and the workshop, and a brief, 24-hour, reaction to the AstraZeneca vaccine. I'm back to normal now but missed yesterday's narrow window of opportunity. I'm very glad that I've had the vaccine though.

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 04-05-2021 at 03:09 AM.
    You can never have too many clamps

  31. #311
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    On the issue of the laminations riding up, I found that the solution is to make up some plastic-covered blocks that span across the laminations a several points and screw them down to the board underneath, before you get the clamps drawn right in.
    You're already forcing the wood to do something it doesn't naturally want to do, so a little extra force along another axis is needed.
    Alex

    “A man in an open shirt, sat gazing out to sea; A young man, a hale man, and I wished that I were he and that the things that I loved were as they used to be”
    - Geoffrey Holdsworth

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  32. #312
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by AJZimm View Post
    On the issue of the laminations riding up, I found that the solution is to make up some plastic-covered blocks that span across the laminations a several points and screw them down to the board underneath, before you get the clamps drawn right in.
    You're already forcing the wood to do something it doesn't naturally want to do, so a little extra force along another axis is needed.
    Thanks Alex . I'll try that on the stem itself. Great to hear from you again (a lot of non-boat stuff has been going on here of late!). I've got a roll of newish 3M brown packaging ('shipping') tape that I am will try out on it.


    I got up (and back) to the workshop this morning fairly promptly as the traffic was back to normal, and while I didn't get any cutting done (that will have to wait until Thursday), I did do this:

    1. First leg attached - heavy-duty coach screws pre-drilled 5 mm diameter (note the black felt-pen marks; the leg has been moved somewhat, too):


    First leg attached - heavy-duty coach screws pre-drilled 5 mm by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. Four legs on now. The fifth will have to wait until I've shaved off the main bearers at the forward perpendicular (main longitudinal datum) so that both are square in three planes and remeasured the station marks - and the aft perpendicular. 2 - 3 mm will come off depending on how carefully I can make the cut. I will probably use the not-quite-smallest circular saw, very carefully adjusted, and with a guide-block firmly clamped square to the long edge of the bearer...


    Four legs on now. The fifth will have to wait until the forward datum is redone by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    I had hoped to get more done, but I was later setting out than I had intended, and had a few other things to do on the way as well. Better than nothing, though.

    On the subject of the Bote-Cote tint, in further answer to @Andrew Donald's* query above, I had another look at the waste resin (aborted attempt when I had to deal with a blocked hardener pump that had been sitting idle for far too long) - it does have a slight greenish tinge, but quite a lot less tinge than WEST's orange-brown and Bote-Cote's previous sort-of 'whitish' colour (in my experience, anyway).

    More in a while.


    * I strongly suspect that this forum software package doesn't** use the usual '@' notification system, but I thought that I'd try it, you never know.

    ** It doesn't
    You can never have too many clamps

  33. #313
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Alex,if I can interrupt . Another quicker method to get your strong back going is to make the ladder frame section of it, square and brace it. Then sit it up at height with temp clamped on legs, then measure and cut each leg to the floors level and bolt it on. No floor is level and it saves grovelling around with wedges and packers later on.

    This is all assuming you’re going to leave the build in one position in the shed.

  34. #314
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Hello Andrew, please interrupt by all means . Thank you for your input: your assumption is spot on - it will be staying parked in one spot, especially if I nail it down. That is, unless I decide to move the frame home - there are a number of compelling reasons behind this (a much flatter floor, more light, not as cold, time and petrol savings, and less frustration among them), but it won't be a simple exercise unless (or until) I get ruthless and get a skip in. I am working on this in my spare time, and the lockup is slowly but surely filling up. A useful side-effect already is a somewhat tidier shed.

    And you are also right about the nature of the floor: it has more humps in it than a sea serpent. I am quite keen on not grovelling around on the floor more than I have to, as grovelling about with the stems is more than enough without adding to it unnecessarily. I am in fact currently thinking of raising the stems board so that I can work at a more sensible height (a temporary frame supported on the sawhorses, which I have used already), and clearing some bench space for glueing on; this after re-reading parts of Mr Milne's Kotik and Sooty Tern threads.

    I will take your advice. If I do decide that moving everything including machine tools is practicable, some rejigging of the legs will be needed - I can simply remove and shunt them backwards or forwards a bit to get a fresh area of main bearer.

    Thanks very much .

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    You can never have too many clamps

  35. #315
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    I seem to be going around and around in circles at the moment. Yesterday's attempt to work on the building frame got waylaid by one of the coach screws snapping wither as I tried to pull it out of the frame, or maybe it happened when driving it in. That took most of the session in extraction it (fortunately a punch took care of the leg half of the bolt, a pair of vice-grips took care of the screw part still suck in the main bearer.

    I had hoped to get most of the staves for the bow stem cut, plus some of the stern staves, but at least got most of the bow stem sliced. I really should have used that oregon for staves, it's completely clear. Anyway, I've been playing about with getting the stems board up off the ground:


    1. Believe it or not, I could fit the boat and most of the machine tools in here, BUT...there is a lot of work to do in here yet before that could happen


    Shed again by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    2. Mould stuffed into the KIA - they fit! This is them up at the workshop for the moment, that will give me a bit more of a view of the far end of the shed


    The Kia has become the workhorse replacement for the Mazda by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    3. I decided to get the stems board u[p off the floor to see how that might work - here's the sawhorses becoming a temporary bench


    Sawhorses becoming a temporary bench, again by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    4. I moved the plywood for the plank templates out of the way so that the sawhorses could sit level on the floobr />

    Some more rearrangements by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    5. And here's the board elevated to around waist height


    The laminating board up on the trestles - instant bench by Alexander Newman, on Flickr.


    'More' shortly
    Last edited by Alex1N; 04-13-2021 at 07:58 PM.
    You can never have too many clamps

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