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Thread: Sooty Tern No. 93

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Yes, a draughtsman's square is a useful thing in lofting this size of boat.
    To my words "cheap white paint" add "quick drying". There's nothing wrong with using paper if you've got it, as long as it doesn't distort. I didn't use paper or paint, and my rubbed out pencil lines (and there were plenty) still showed up, which could get a little confusing at times. See my Kotik thread.
    A diagonal is drawn from the centre line outwards at any convenient angle at approximately right angles to the shape of the cross section of the hull. The off-set is measured along it, from the centre line. This enables you to measure the distance more accurately than if the lines crossed at an acute angle.
    Ian
    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Hello Ian, thank you for your reply. I'm not expecting the paper to distort too much, but that depends on the RH to some degree - which has been up and down like a yo-yo at the moment. The adhesive has a hydrocarbon solvent, so I am not anticipating much dimensional shift once the carrier has evaporated - and in any case, the adhesive is 'dry' before the two surfaces are brought together.

    Thank you for you valiant attempts to help me get my head around the diagonals question. The fundamental thing that is really doing my brain in is the lack of a specified origin (and possibly angle) on the plans, i.e., a specific offset from the DWL up the centreline. Every other detail is there, including the diagonals' distances from the unspecified point, and I find it odd that the origin isn't exactly specified. I am puzzled that Iain would allow that to be measured off the plan and scaled up when everything else is explictly give in blue and light grey. I feel that there is something gnashing its ferocious teeth at me in full view that I am just nor seeing - or subconsciously refusing to see. Given all your patient advice, I should have got this by now, aaargh, my brain hurts (to steal one of the Pythons' lines). You'd never guess that I'd written a doctoral thesis - I wouldn't either : (.

    >loud thumping of head being hit on desk. ouch<

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-23-2018 at 01:54 AM. Reason: Desperate attempt to clarify thinking about the diagonals
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  3. #73
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Your warnings - wot fell on deaf ears - were apposite, Ian...

    1. Papered lofting board - flash on. Things were going swimmingly until the 3M can ran out of propellant with plenty of glue left. The Fuller can lasted until the last narrow pass across the board - then ran out of propellant and glue. I finished off with the glue stick, finding out in the process that the glue hadn't in fact run out - the winder mechanism really had become disconnected (I tried to check that when it first 'ran out', but it didn't take).


    Papered lofting board - flash on by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. Papered lofting board - flash off. There are air bubbles under the larger piece of paper - and some smaller ones under the smaller piece. The narrower strip went on first as practise - which is just as well, since starting with the larger piece would have been a total disaster (although I may not have run out of spray glue).


    Papered lofting board - flash off by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    The air bubbles in the both sheets are more obvious in the flash snap - which surprised me. Perhaps the pitiful flash number of the phone (in relation to the overhead light) actually created some slight increase in 'shadowed' areas. I also slipped with the larger sheet as I laid it out from left to right: it was snug against the smaller strip when I started, but there is a distinct gap there now. I will now definitely need to draw in the DWL in a slightly different spot - unless I abandon this board and use another one. I could try to peel the sheet off and try again given that it is supposedly repositionable glue, but I'm fairly sure that the glue-stick glue doesn't have the same properties. The latter bonds pieces of paper together very securely after a short dwell/set-up time. In hindsight, I should have lined up the larger sheet along the - carefully aligned - edge of the smaller one and worked from bottom to top. Foresight would be a good thing, too, since an ounce of planning, etc., etc. ... There's another saying about leading a horse to water, too.

    Note that this board is cupped not only from from side to side but end to end - I should have nailed it to some battens (which I don't have here, they're up at Wentworth Falls, of course) or to one of both of the other sheets first, appropriately arranged to assist in cancelling out the cupping. Still, a flat-head nail or too here and there, out of the way of the lofted-line positions and countersunk slightly into the sheet isn't going to signify very much. Possibly. I may need to get some different nails; while long enough, the panel pin heads may not be wide enough to resist the rebounding force of the cupping. Then again, they are ringed (the wider-headed bronze ring nails can be retrieved easily enough, see below).


    I'll leave this a bit to 'stabilise' (ha ha), but I suspect that the effects of moisture on the paper over the air bubbles will defeat me before I even get off the ground, so to speak. I have a tin of acrylic ceiling paint (up at WF) so all is not lost - yet. As I will need to go up there to take up the last and heaviest of the table saw bits, the epoxy bottle and bring back the nails, battens and paint, and hopefully take the old paint tins to the tip up there (Resource Recovery and Waste Management Facility - while I approve 100 % with resource recovery and wast management, 'tip' is much shorter ; ), a trip up there is scheduled this for arvo - maybe via the local hardware store.

    Note the size up in snaps for this post only.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-23-2018 at 01:55 AM.
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  4. #74
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    OK. I just popped out the the shed, having opened its main door, and this is what met my gaze:

    1. Not as many air bubbles as I thought, nor as bad as I'd feared. It looks a bit better than this since I removed most of the two large bubbles at the bottom edge of the sheet. I'll trim the bottom edge excess off in a bit.


    Not as many air bubbles as I thought... by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    The critical centreline and DWL are either completely out of the way of any bubbles (in the case of the centreline) or can be moved out of their way (in the case of the DWL, and it was going to be shifted in any case, see previous post). Since I added an inch in from the bottom edge of the board before I started the initial on-the-plywood DWL, plus -4" and -8" waterlines, measurements, I have more than enough leeway to play with. But I will still bring the paint down 'just in case'.

    Next Flickr-image-size-up for this post, too - because I forgot to dial it back. But also useful for the subject under discussion. Funnily enough, this size works very well on my entry-level 2018 iPad.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-23-2018 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Added to the snap's caption
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  5. #75
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    "Now who's looking like Mr Silly, eh?" to quote the Raven from Discworld. Remember "I'm not expecting it to be unstable" and "if it's an abysmal failure" and stuff like that? Well...


    1. On second thoughts... This has proved to be totally unstable and an abysmal failure. The afternoon sun heated up the shed (it had been quite a warm day), and the paper has come (almost) completely unstuck.


    On second thoughts... by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. Ahem. The only glue that held fast was that from the UHU glue-stick. It has, in fact, held rather too fast, as you can see from the tears at the top. I will have to remove the glued-on paper with a damp cloth.


    Ahem. The only glue that held fast was the UHU gluestick by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    3. Severe cupping at one end of the top sheet of plywood. This is going to get screwed down with button-headed screws.


    Severe cupping at one end of the top sheet of plywood by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    So it really was a removable adhesive. Back to the drawing board, ha ha...ha. Fortunately, most of the glue stayed on the paper, although there are a few spots where it transferred.

    I have decided to cut to the chase - use button-headed screws to screw two pieces of plywood together and hope that they go flat. I've realised that nails wont really cut it, and I have a whole box of 25 mm button heads here. Zip-zip with the drill driver. The top board won't be painted and I will draw straight down onto the bare plywood (well, bare if I can get the glue spots off - at least I have a reasonable amount of glue remover, as long as the propellant doesn't run out...). I will rub out the existing lines - unless I switch boards - and start all over again. Once I find the T-square.

    In fact, I had a tricky afternoon - the only thing that went well was the Katoomba tip taking three full 4 litre paint tins, one almost-full 4 litre paint tin, and four almost-empty 4 litre paint tins, off me - in fact, everything that I took up there. I will leave the 1 litre and 500 ml tins until their public collection day in November (and allow for a couple of hours' wait). It was all downhill from there.

    Swadlings didn't ring back with an answer to my second request for information Douglas fir lengths, so they're sacked. They are moving house shortly, according to the gent who answered the phone, and only have structural non-clear stuff. So back to Trend Timbers, although I may give Anagote a call - if they still in existence (they are!, and here's their boat-building timbers page).

    I forgot to look for the T-square; the battens that I was looking for were right at the bottom of the stack, and I wasn't going to perch precariously on the very top of a ladder in a dangerously untidy environment.

    The price of the bandsaw that I have been interested in (double ball-raced bearing guides) has suddenly gone up $200 - I must have been looking at the introductory special price (it's a new model).

    I got bounced with a sudden orchestral library job that I really didn't want to have to turn around and sort out away from home.

    Here's the other thing that went well today:

    4. Complete tablesaw and dust extractor parts - all in one spot again at last! I carted up the cabinet and main table: obviously neither is reassembled but that will have to wait for the final disinfestation of the workspace. We have at least chosen a colour, so that may not be long away. Hope springs eternal, and so on.


    Complete tablesaw and dust extractor parts - in one spot by Alex1N, on Flickr.

    Back to the 800 x 600 image size again, too. I remembered to switch it.

    That's it for the moment, and enough of my whining and whingeing too.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-23-2018 at 03:18 AM. Reason: I missed an apostrophe
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  6. #76
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Alex,
    I looked on my Kotik plan and saw that each of the three diagonals start on a waterline, WL 15", 20" and 25" as it happens, so it's easy to see where they start. You can measure the angle of each one with your protractor, to put them on your lofting. The offsets given in the "diagonals" part of the offset table are measured along the diagonal line from the centreline of the body plan.
    You don't actually have to loft the Sooty Tern. Just use the full-sized patterns for the Arctic Tern and add the little bit at the sheer at each one that Iain gives you for the ST. You only have to loft (draw full size) the stems, because they will have slightly more rake than the Arctic Tern's.
    The Dory Book doesn't talk about diagonals, because dory plans use the planking lines instead.
    Cheers,
    Ian
    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Hello Ian,

    Thank you for the clarification. D2 is on the 15" waterline, i.e., 3" above the 12" line; D1 is on the 20" waterline. Although neither the 15”or 20” are drwan on Iaink’s Lines plan, I actually had drawn the 20" waterline on the plywood (plus the old and new sheerlines) already so that's easy - I just need to put in the 15" point on the centreline. Whew! I missed the waterlines on the Lines pan, confusing them with the plank lines. I also modified the mould patterns even before I turned up here on the Forum again, by extending the sheerstrake lines up to the ST, and moving the bearer part out accordingly, with also another 3 mm added for the 9 mm ply thickness that I’m using.

    Lofting just the stems makes things simpler, although I have found that the Lines plan's centrelines and the bottom (building frame) spreader line don't match up, which I found a bit worrying, and which was the main motivation for doing a full lofting of the mould patterns on the plywood. I have spent many hours poring over printouts, checking for distortion, for my scratch-built aeromodels - I am fully aware of the distortions that printers of all types can generate. This included so-called accurate and highly regarded 3-views, that were up to all sort of mischief. I dare say I can do the moulds for fun, and see how things match up with the plans. Moulds on one side; flip the double-board over and do the stems (the latter on a common DWL unlike the crossed AT stems, although that was a matter of save paper, I'm sure.)

    Here's where it's at with the plywood:

    1. Clean sweep - no more paper! The damp path is where I soaked the paper with a damp cloth. The gummy paper scraped off very easily with a sharp chisel, followed by another mop-down to remove more of the gum. Almost tabula rasa - back to where it was this morning, anyway (except with traces of glue - andmost of that rubs off with hand rubbing).


    Clean sweep - no more paper! by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    The damp patch has since dried out.

    Anyway, it's back up the Mountains again tomorrow - more doors to bog up with epoxy filler. W e may see some paint on the garage walls soon, hooray!

    Thank you once again for sorting out another nest of rats, Ian - I was almost going spare. And the answer was obvious and staring me in the face!


    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-23-2018 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Added a bit of explanation to the first paragraph.
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  8. #78
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex1N View Post
    Thank you for you valiant attempts to help me get my head around the diagonals question The fundamental thing that is really doing my brain in is the lack of a specified origin (and possibly angle) on the plans, i.e., a specific offset from the DWL up the centreline. Every other detail is there, including the diagonals' distances from the unspecified point, and I find it odd that the origin isn't exactly specified. I am puzzled that Iain would allow that to be measured off the plan and scaled up when everything else is explicitly give in blue and light grey.
    Alex.
    The key thing to remember about diagonals is that they are not, strictly speaking, necessary to define the shape of the boat when you go to build it. If the offsets for the stations have been measured accurately and transferred to the table of offsets without any clerical errors, then you’ve got the shape when you scale those numbers up for the moulds. However, it is quite possible for either of these errors to occur.

    The other benefit of diagonals is at the design stage, for the designer to ensure that the hull has fair lines fore and aft along about the angle where the planks are going to run (more or less). You can look at the body plan sections, the buttock lines and waterlines and think you have a fair sweep fore and aft, but when you take the measurements from the diagonals you have selected and draw them out, you get another view of the hull that helps to confirm that or not.

    So, diagonals work as a kind of cross-check, both at the design stage, and then at the construction stage, to the other measurements, to ensure that you have fair lines that will look right and won’t be too hard to plank.

    The thing about diagonals is that the selection or placement of them is arbitrary, or convenient, as Ian Milne put it, with the idea being to get the point where the diagonals cross the sections at as close to right angles as possible, to reduce the chance for measurement error. I’ve never seen a set of Iain’s plans, so am not clear why he didn’t give two end points for the diagonals. Other designers do. Again, it is not really necessary. Remember your geometry – if you have any two points on an x-y coordinate system, you have the angle between them. You can look at the body plan and measure height from baseline and distance out from centreline at any two points on a given diagonal – use buttock lines or waterlines if they are handy. Of course, the further apart the two points you pick, the less chance for angular measurement error.

    So, the use of fully lofted diagonals during construction, then, is to use those scaled-up numbers from the plan to cross-check that each of your mould sections will be fair to the next ones fore and aft. You draw the diagonals out in full on the plan view or wherever it is convenient to do so and run a batten to ensure the line is fair, adjusting points if necessary. Then you can use that full size line to take the (adjusted) measurement off at each mould station and put it back on the full size diagonal that is drawn on the lofted body plan view. If everything is aligned, the measurement from the diagonal will land on the mould station line that you have drawn in with the aid of the station offsets and a batten. If they don’t, then you have to start adjusting. With Iain’s plans, I would expect any adjustments to be minor.

    This is all a lot of words. If you want to see the process visually, there are a couple of good videos of the lofting process during the rebuild of Tally Ho. It’s a larger and more complex boat, but the process is the same. The first video also shows the process of laying out, leveling and painting plywood for a traditional lofting floor.

    Lofting the Lines; Part 1 - Rebuilding Tally Ho EP24
    Diagonals explanation at about 17:10

    Lofting the Lines; Part 2 - Rebuilding Tally Ho EP25
    Diagonals lofting on the floor starting at about 09:50
    Key phrase about why you do this at 11:05
    Alex

    "“He was unfamiliar with the sea and did not like it much: it was a place that made you cold and wet and sick” " Nevil Shute, Trustee From the Toolroom

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Hello Alex,

    Thank you very much for your detailed, comprehensive and informative description of the diagonals. That matches nicely (in the mathematical sense) with Ian’s ‘loaf of bread’ description.

    Thanks for the video links - I’ll watch them when I get home this afternoon, or ‘arvo’ as we used to say in Oz (I don’t hear it as much these days).

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    You can never have too many clamps

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    It was a bit cooler here today - and Wentworth Falls was cold in comparison. Generally overcast, and light and annoying drizzle at the latter - so the epoxy-filling of the cockatoo trenches was done in the shed, under heat lamps. The latter were off more than they were on since they made the underlying wood out-gas (probably moisture), forming large bubbles in the sanding mixture.
    When I got home, the Dory Book was awaiting me.

    I haven't found the T-square yet, but I had a bright idea last night - use the largest of my engineer's squares (6", one of a set of four, and supposedly 99.90% accurate when they were manufactured) as the T-square base instead, plus the whippy 1 m/yard straight-edgeasthe long edge. It worked as expected, and the results were interesting:

    1. First, the wee beastie with friends: 6”/150 mm engineer’s square, straightedge and plastic set square. Note the packet of button-headed screws...


    6”/150 mm engineer’s square by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. Engineer’s square in action. Note the lean on the centreline compared with the (+/- 0.1 %) accurate straightedge. This of course assumes that the sheet edge is straight at that point...


    Engineer’s square in action by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    3. DWL at left-hand edge of plywood sheet. It's out of plumb, with the straightedge crossing the centreline/DWL intersection point. The -8" and -4" waterlines were perfect.


    DWL at left-hand edge of plywood sheet by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    4. Plywood sheet with most of the lines and so forth mostly rubbed out.


    Plywood sheet with most of the lines and so forth rubbed out by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    5. Square on granite surface plate - back up off the floor and out of (most of) harm's way. The surface plate really should have a cover over it. The device in the background is a height-marking gauge. That’s my micro-lathe and mill bench undeerneath all the stuff - desperately long-overdue for a cleanup. I am ashamed of that.


    Square on granite surface plate by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    6. Close-up of extended sheerlines and support edge(s) - my doodlings on Mr Oughtred's plans. This is by way of proof that I already extended the sheerline weeks ago. It's not of course - I could have done it in a tearing hurry this arvo, but I didn't (do it this arvo, that is!). Note that the pencilled numbers are sixteenths of an inch.


    Close-up of extended sheerlines and support edge(s) by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    One more snap to follow...
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-24-2018 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Assumption-detecting
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  11. #81
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    7. The next plywood sheet down - this is then’C’side of this sheet, too. The one underneath is the othe way up, i.e., the ‘D’ side uppermost. I'm looking at my options for drawing on, here - this is candidate two of three. I'll have a butcher's at the one underneath tomorrow if I get a chance, as I'm expected up that the father-in-law’s again tomorrow.


    The next plywood sheet down... by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    I hope to be able to have a skim through the Dory Book this evening (I've already had a quick thumb) after I get home from rehearsal.

    Actually, staying home tomorrow, so will have a look at it in the morning. WF on Friday instead.

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-24-2018 at 07:04 AM. Reason: added stuff, corrected typos
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  12. #82
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Since I’m at home tomorrow, I’ll try to get over to Trend Timbers tomorrow arvo. Having knocked Swadlings on the head (they still haven’t rung me back), and the quote that I got from Anagote (they replied very promptly with a pdf quote, I have to say) nearly having me drop dead with my leg in the air (at least I was sitting down when I read it), it’s back to Trend.

    I watched the first of the lofting videos and most of the second at lunch time - very useful indeed, thank you once again, Alex! At least I could now deal with five diagonals. I’ll measure the angles tomorrow, too, as I didn’t think of it today.

    Cheers,
    Alex.
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  13. #83
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    I have arranged with Trend Timbers to pop over there at 2 o'clock this arvo, to look at their stock of 50 x 200 mm oregon (Douglas fir) boards. I will be take some rope and a couple of occy (Strine* for octopus) straps just in case.

    1. 305 mm/12” disc sander. This is NOT the most prized of the tools in my collection - it was cheap, it's very roughly made and I don't like using it, partly because of its scrappy appearance. It does the job, though, and it does have an essential dust extraction port (adaptors required). I've just fished it out from underneath what is nominally the 'woodworking bench', here, having remembered that I had it - it can go up the WF and help add to the amount of clutter up there. and it might be useful, who knows. It has a very aggressive grit disc on it at the moment (between 30 and 60, approx.), which I've used in the past for buzzing down epoxy-laminated marine plywood (in a hurry!). I got a velcro pad and discs so that I could change grits 'quickly and easily' (the table has to be taken off so it isn't really that quick and easy, but better than gluing something on semi-permanently...).


    305 mm/12” disc sander by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. 12 mm plywood sheet no. 3, 'C' face uppermost.


    12 mm plywood sheet no. 3 by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    3. Sheet no. 3 rotated 180°. There was a bit of a split on the other end - filled and sanded, but I turned it around anyway...


    Sheet no. 3 rotated 180° by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    4. D’ face of sheet no. 2 - much rougher, and more porous, hence the cupping. The 'D' face absorbs more atmospheric moisture and swells more than the 'C' side, hence the cupping. If I had got either of the 'AA' or 'BB' quality plywoods, I probably wouldn't have had that problem (quite as much).


    ‘D’ face of sheet no. 2 - much rougher, and more porous by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    5. Knots in sheet no. 2 ‘D’ face. Smoother than they look (although not as smooth as the 'C' face).


    Knots in sheet no. 2 ‘D’ face by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    6. Digital protractor - measuring the D2 diagonal. The device came to about the same result as I got by eye with a normal protractor: 51+° by eye for D1, device read 51.1°; 42.3° degrees for D2, 42.3° from device. I've learnt to trust the accuracy of the human eye over time - it can be very accurate if it is allowed to be so or recognised as such!


    Digital protractor - measuring the D2 diagonal by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    I am inclined at the moment to screw sheets 2 and 3 together: they both have less distortion than the 'first' sheet. Interestingly, the Bruynzeel okoume sheets were pretty wild when I released them from the captivity of their packing constraints. I managed to squash 'em a bit flatter by putting things up against them (I don't have the room to store them flat, unfortunately).

    That's it for the moment.

    Cheers
    Alex.

    * Strine for 'Australian'
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  14. #84
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Ahem. Well. I did in fact buy a board of oregon/Douglas fir from Trend's - it's a jolly dangerous place for me to visit!

    But first, this morning's fiddling:

    1. Checking the space available for stem lofting. On the 12 mm sheets - plenty of room even for the stems lofted separately and the apron extension (with addition) for the bow stem. Both the apron extension and he addition back to Station 2 allow for the extra 1/2"/12.7 mm for each station (for the actual 20' LOA hull - noted on the supplementary Sail Plan sheet for the Sooty Tern). The Station 2 addition isn't necessary for the lofting, I added it for completeness, along with the 1/2" increases (which are). The forward stem DWL is more-or-less parallel with the bottom edge of the sheet in this snap. Even with the sheet in its current position, the stern stem will miss the crack in the sheet at the far end. The stems will be laminated one at a time for easier access to the outline clamping-blocks.


    Checking the space available for stem lofting by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. Sometimes the knots fall out of the plywood sheet...revealing an internal veneer face underneath.


    Sometimes the knots fall out... by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    3. A replaced knot can fall out as well.


    The replaced knot can fall out as well by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    4. Closer view of a missing knot-patch on 12 mm ‘CD’-grade plywood, ‘D’ face. All three - a knot left in the veneer, an engineered patch, and a hole.


    Closer view of a missing knot-patch on 12 mm ‘CD’-grade plywood, ‘D’ face by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    5. Just home with the wood. Luckily for me the roads were very smooth - next time I move this (probably tomorrow morning), it will run along one of the side members, so that the amount of cross-bar flexing is minimised. Having said that, the ropes didn't slacken or th board budge a millimetre. One of the 'Blue Mountains' (there are about five of 'em) can be seen in the background of the snap.


    Just home with the wood by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    6. 50 x 300 x 3100 mm oregon/Douglas fir. I had a careful look at the ends of all the boards on thepallet, and this was the one that spoke to me most (saying, "Buy me! Buy ME! Buy Me NOW!").


    50 x 300 x 3100 mm oregon by Alex1N, on Flickr.

    More snaps to follow shortly...
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-27-2018 at 06:28 AM.
    You can never have too many clamps

  15. #85
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    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    1. Oregon board after untying it. It's a pretty straight board when not under tension from ropes or gravity.


    Oregon board after untying it by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. ‘Aft’ end of the board - fairly close grain. I counted 52 rings over the 50 mm, so (approximately) 26 rings/inch.


    ‘Aft’ end of the board - fairly tight grain by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    3. Oregon board off the car roof. An extra metre would have been good, but I am very pleased with what I've got. One scarph joint will not signify.


    Oregon board off the car roof by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    4. In the shed, temporarily. Next stop, Wentworth Falls.


    In the shed, temporarily by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    5. The grain is pretty straight all the way along the board.


    The grain is pretty straight all the way along the board by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    6. Sample block of Australian ‘Silver Ash’ (Flindersia sp. (so, related to oranges, lemons and rue (Family Rutaceae)). This isn't available in an quantity of good timber at the moment, but I thought it worth getting a sample to play with (whittle, weigh, and other fun things).


    Sample block of Australian ‘Silver Ash’ by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    Well, that's that for the oregon for the moment. I'm very pleased with that purchase - and it came out a good deal cheaper than quoted (or I got my GST muddled up, but I don't think so). Excellent!

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-25-2018 at 05:45 AM.
    You can never have too many clamps

  16. #86
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    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Bit of fiddling about this evening, more preparations:

    1. Testing screw depth against 12 mm plywood sheets. The 3 mm (or 2 x 1.5 mm laminated, by the looks) birch aircraft ply offcut in between the screw head and the 12 mm plywood will be sliced up for spacers, to prevent the screws from fastening onto the meranti ply sheet below. I need twenty-four 12 x 12 mm squares, with an 8g hole or just under drilled in each one. Bit of pull-saw and drill press work coming up.


    Testing screw depth against 12 mm plywood sheets by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. 24 button-headed screw laid out in rough positions on the top plywood sheet. The screw heads are out of the way of important things like centrelines, and hopefully the buttock lines too. I'll check before committing the screws to the plywood. I may need to whack a few screws up the middle of the board or thereabouts, too - I'll see how it looks as I go. A corner of the disc sander can be seen at the bottom edge of the snap, sitting on the trolley and waiting to be trundled down to the car tomorrow morning.


    24 button-headed screw laid out in rough positions on top plywood sheet by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    That's all for the moment, I'm starting to see double.

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-26-2018 at 01:42 AM. Reason: changes
    You can never have too many clamps

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    After yet another door-filling session yesterday morning, I felt as though I was coming down with something, so I have a very easy afternoon and evening, although having brought the cutting marking gauge back home with me, I did (rather wonkily) mark out the small offcut of 1/8"-ish plywood for chopping up into washers the lofting board screws.

    1. But first: off to Wentworth Falls with the oregon... I decided to move the board over to the edge of the racks opposite the driver - less flex and more load-balance. And yes, the car does need washing.


    Off to Wentworth Falls... by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. Rather more seaman-like tying-down than when I brought the board home. I thought out how to re-do it the night before, while dropping off to sleep. Used much less rope, too, and it still didn't budge. Much more satisfactory all round...


    Rather more seaman-like tying down than yesterday by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    3. Thirty-six 4 mm holes drilled in 3.6 mm plywood offcut. The button-headed screw is not even a push fit, which is exactly what I wanted. Note the rust on the drill chick, despite being coated with oil. Rust never sleeps.


    36 4-mm holes drilled in 3.6 mm plywood offcut by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    4. Bit of exit-tearout as expected despite the bradpoint wood-bit used, cleaned up after this somewhat with a rat-tailed Perma-Grit file. Screw holding fast in hole even though upside down


    Bit of exit-tearout as expected despite bradpoint wood-bit by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    5. Drilled plywood rip-sawn into strips with Japanese saw. Really out of kilter, but they will do the job: they don't have to be pieces of fine joinery for their allotted task, just act as spacers. I allowed for the saw kerf, but put the cut-line on the wrong side of the saw blade, which accounts for most of the skewness.


    Drilled plywood rip-sawn into strips with Japanese saw by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    6. Strips cut into ‘washers’ with an X-acto razor saw - job done! Rough as anything, but they'll do what's required of them.


    Strips cut into ‘washers’ with an X-acto razor saw - done! by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    More anon.
    You can never have too many clamps

  18. #88
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    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    A bit more progress:

    1. Spacers/washers sorted into two groups: less wonky (foreground) and more wonky...


    Spacers/washers sorted into two groups: less wonky (foreground) and more wonky... by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. Part of the less-wonky group of spacers fitted to some button-headed screws.


    Spacers fitted to button-headed screws by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    3. First washered screw driven home - at the the other end from the really bade edge. It's intruding over the -8" waterline, but I will rotate the spacer out of the way. But at least the two sheets of plywood aren't attached to the 3 mm meranti sheet underneath them, so it the spacer is working as intended.


    First washered screw driven home by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    4. Checks were made to spacing to miss buttock vertical slice-lines...


    Check was made to spacing to miss buttockline verticals by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    5. ...and the centreline.


    Missing the centreline, too by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    6. The screw near the outer region of Mould No. 5 outline was checked and repositioned. The poor old drill did a lot of work during the Oz Racer build - and suffered much. It's still doing well despite the inevitable epoxy glue coating, and its rapidly-ageing NiCd batteries.


    Screw near outer region of Mould No. 5 outline checked and repositioned by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    Couple more snaps in this sequence...:
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-27-2018 at 06:34 AM. Reason: Various corrections and tweaks
    You can never have too many clamps

  19. #89
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    Mar 2010
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    Blaxland, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    1. The worst corner, screwed down last - and really really tightly. The poor ratchet on the drill driver was complaining bitterly. Thanks to the drilled holes, none of the spacers cracked under pressure.


    The worst corner, screwed down last - and really tightly by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. All four sides screwed down, plus a couple towards the middle of the sheet. There was a bump around where the extra screws are now, when checked with the 1.2 m Stabila level/straight-edge. No more bump now. I may have to move them at some point, but that shouldn't prove to be any trouble. I suspect that the knots in that region had something to do with it. It looks as though there is one screw missing in the bottom left-hand corner, but there isn't: I just have my spacing out, and would seem to be have squashed them in (accidentally) towards the crook end/corner - not that that is necessarily a bad thing in this instance.


    All four sides screwed down, plus a couple towards the middle of the sheet by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    Another reason for doing the lofting is similar to one of the reasons for not buying a kit from Stray Dog Boatworks, which latter was because I wanted to learn the art-and-craft of plank-shaping. This wish to do some lofting myself also runs along the same sorts of lines. Methinks I doth protest too much ...

    Anyway, excuses and justifications aside, I am now pretty well ready to start formally - and carefully - drawing in the horizontal and vertical elements of the grid. I will be taking pains not to miss the 15" (D2) waterline! The 20" waterline was already there in my first iteration.

    I finished watching the Tally Ho lofting video no. 2 at lunchtime yesterday, also very interesting. I liked his macaw, too. Sort-of like a live Mr Snappy. I wonder if it shreds his timber the way that the sulphur-crested cockatoos do our doors...

    The Boss has gone up to visit her dad, look at the new paintwork - I hope that she's pleased with it, although she liked the results via my snaps sent yesterday (not that you can really tell from such things).

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    You can never have too many clamps

  20. #90
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    Mar 2010
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    Blaxland, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Right-i-o.

    Busy day. Or rather, half-day. And the Boss likes the paint colour. Anyway.

    1. Fifty galvanised 14-10 x 100 mm hex-drive screws in a handy reusable box, for assembling the building frame. I got a hex-drive bit at the same time, which can be seen tucked under the packing-strap box fastener. I got these at the same time that I ordered the 42 x 150 x 6000 mm LVLs for the building frame, and arranged for their delivery (Tuesday arvo). And made enquires about lead flashing prices: the hardware store chappy thinks that he might be able to see if the manufacturers can give me a better price for a known quantity (66 kg) as a special order.


    Fifty galvanised 14-10 x 100 mm hex-drive screws in a handy reusable box by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. Arrow T-50 staple gun and staples. The stainless steel staples were an absolute necessity in the old Workswamp, violent shudder. These are bound to be useful for something - maybe for latticed spiling patterns, for example. The ring-in bench stop was acquired as a pair during the ‘Duck build but neither was ever installed in the benchtop - it and its twin might come in useful, too. Maybe. You never know.


    Arrow T-55 staple gun and staples by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    3. Cutting marking gauge, used for marking out the lofting board screw spacers. You have to be careful not the let the cutter follow the grain...


    Cutting marking gauge, used for marking out the lofting board screw spacers by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    4. OK, here's where I really start to get serious: marking out the common centreline for the mould outlines. This line is in fact the fourth attempt to get it right: I kept bumping something or other out of whack with a knee, an elbow, a hand... Note the faint remnants of the old, mostly-rubbed-out, centreline to the right of the new one..


    Marking out the common centreline for the mould outlines by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    5. A ‘Heath Robinson’ setup of squares to get a line normal to the centreline, and parallel with the bottom edge of the board. See also a caption to a similar snap further down the page (no. 2 in the next post, no. 91). I did something a bit more complicated once or twice, to get a centreline drawn on the underside of the Skyfarer wing, and for motor-shaft axis line - in three dimensions, which was a challenge (for me at least, see also snap no. 6 directly below).


    A ‘Heath Robinson’ setup of squares to get a line normal to the centreline by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    6. More mucking about with squares - and clamps - to get an accurately-positioned centreline for the motor-shaft axis. Note the perspex alignment plate with accurate line 90° to the firewall-end of the plate. This is the second or third go at this one, and it wasn't the end of it by a long shot, either...


    Alignment plate installation from a distance by Alex1N, on Flickr.

    Continued...
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-27-2018 at 06:37 AM. Reason: typos, polishing
    You can never have too many clamps

  21. #91
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    Mar 2010
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    Blaxland, NSW, Australia
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    123

    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Back to the lofting:

    1. Adding B1 vertical buttock reference line for aft moulds (nos. 5-7).


    Adding B1 vertical reference line for aft moulds (nos. 5-7) by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    2. More squaring-off, this time for accurately placing B2. 10” from B1, 20” from the centreline. I could, of course, have run the straight-edge along the bottom edge of the board, adequately supported. Or uesd the stiff metric/imperial rule from my old defunct combination square (the square part of it might be have had it, but the rule is perfectly good and often-used; it's currently in the house, being used for measurements of the Arctic Tern Lines plan).


    More squaring off, for accurately placing B2 by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    3. Centreline, and aft B1 and B2. There’s a very slight divergence from parallel of B1 and B2, as measured from the upper ends of the lines - I have been debating whether or not to redo them. The error could in fact derive from the horizontals not being at exactly 90° to the centreline. It’s been quite difficult to prevent various implements from moving just slightly; the 1-metre/40-inch rule, for example, has a bow in it, causing it to move about when any flattening pressure on it is released - unless I’m very, very careful.


    Centreline, and aft B1 and B2 by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    4. Marking in the waterlines on the centreline. This was relatively nerve-racking, and I’m really glad that I’m not doing this on a paper surface! The recently-screw-stabilised plywood surface is also much easier to work on than it was. Having said that, I have to watch out for wood fibres throwing - in this case - horizontal line marks out of position. When that happens, I attempt to place another one equidistant on the other side of the obstruction and circle or arrow the pair to draw attention to the problem.


    Marking in the waterlines on the centreline. by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    5. Waterlines marked in up to 28” on centreline and aft B1. Note B1 for the forward moulds (nos. 1 - 4) to the right, B2 also marked in but out of shot. The 15” waterline for diagonal D2 was also marked in on the centreline along with the anlgle (42.3°) - and a note under the 20” waterline for D1 with corresponding angle (51.1°).


    Waterlines marked in up to 28” on centreline and aft B1 by Alex1N, on Flickr.



    6. Closeup of centreline annotations. Specifically, D1 at 20” and D2 at 15”, and their respective angles.


    Closeup of centreline annotations by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    Well, that's it for today - and tomorrow, too, since I have an early start (for me), will be out all day, a concert at 8 pm, then a long drive home, dropping people off along the way. So nothing more until Monday at the earliest. But I do have the lofting board in useable condition now, a start made on the moulds-lofting (which I am not rushing - I rushed into building the ‘Duck, and paid the price), and the LVLs for the building frame paid for and a delivery day and time set. Oh, and I got a new 4-litre container of methylated spirits (aka 'denatured alcohol' in other countries, or 'meths' or more commonly 'metho' for short, here in Oz) this morning as well, and the Boss took it up the Wentworth Falls for the painters to also use some of (seeing that I used up theirs). This is, of course, mostly intended for epoxy cleanup (depending upon how much the painters hoover up) - I use buckets of the stuff, and rolls and rolls of paper towel. Very wasteful: that does make me twitch a bit.

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 10-27-2018 at 02:56 PM.
    You can never have too many clamps

  22. #92
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    Mar 2010
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    Blaxland, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    An horrific week last week, culminating in my worst-ever contribution to a live performance, triggered a major depressive episode, the worst that I’ve had for at least a couple of decades. The latter has forced me to re-evaluate my activities, and made me realise that I am not a fit and proper person to build a real boat - especially not one as beautiful and elegant as the Sooty Tern.

    There are a number of cogent reasons behind this realisation: inability to perceive a fair line; very poor or non-existent technique; lack of boat-building knowledge; ham-fistedness; carelessness; lack of sufficient attention to detail; the inability to solve problems; lack of pattern-recognition ability; wilful inability to listen to or take advice; abuse of tools; enjoying working with my hands and finding that relaxing; use, i.e., theft, of other people’s ideas; presenting others’ (good) work as my own; stupidity; exhibitionism; vanity (my biggest defilement); spending of money; wanton and unnecessary tool collection; over-posting on the internet; and generally being a pest to all I come in contact with.

    In short, not someone who should be let anywhere near boat-building, or any internet forum, for that matter.

    Hence my decision to end all work on the Sooty Tern, return the plans to Robert Ayliffe so that No. 93 can be reassigned to someone more appropriate, and sell the stuff already acquired, via the Oz Woodworkers’ Forum (once their web admins have fixed my current permissions ‘problems’ - they probably of necessity locked me out a while ago).

    I have also been deleting various of my more loopy posts around this Forum, to reduce people’s exposure to me, and will be locking this thread or deleting it entirely once I’ve posted this. If this post results in a permanent ban, so be it.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 11-01-2018 at 09:25 PM.

  23. #93
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    Mar 2015
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    Dunedin, New Zealand
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    How are you doing now, Alex? I think you're being a bit hard on yourself.
    Ian
    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  24. #94
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    Jun 2014
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Hey Alex, hope you've bested your bout of depression; much of your self-deprecating post above sounds like me! I too have been battling depression (yes, genuine clinical depression) for many years.
    But my boats- which won't win any awards- are a source of pleasure, joy, and fulfillment. So please leave the boat project intact while you struggle with your demons. Putting a boat you've built on the water is an amazing feeling of pride and self worth. Please don't regard this as maudlin drivel; I know of what I speak.
    regards
    pvg

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Hello Ian and pvg, thank you very much for your kind words .

    It’s over a week now since I’ve done anything on the project, other than to ponder - and reactivate - it. My grateful thanks goes to those who privately expressed their concern over my well-being, and on here. This post is going to be a long tract of mostly writing, with two snaps, and there are some things that I need to say before normal-ish transmission is resumed.

    I suffer from what the medical profession calls (at the moment) Major Depression and as it is hereditary/biochemical in my case, I have had it all my life, in varying degrees. Last week the medication that I’m on failed under extreme pressure, and most unfortunately at a time when my GP was away and the practice booked up for weeks.

    I was staring miserably at the lofting board in an exhausted state on Monday morning a week ago when my meltdown happened - the worst that I’ve had for several decades in fact, and the numerous causes of which I still don’t think I have fully identified.

    I have been pondering whether to delete post #92, but I am going to leave it - it may function something in the nature of Kerberos (Hagrid’s ‘Fluffy’) to the unwary.

    This post is also a summary of recent (positive) activity.

    So, onwards and...well, onwards.

    After settling back onto a more even keel again and deciding to continue with the project, I have been planning bits and pieces here and there and internet-searching for materials, most of which I have been recording in my ‘Things 3’ Sooty Tern ‘to-do’ database. These ‘bits and pieces’ include a locating high-volume manual bilge pump (per Mr McM’s Rowan), and a source for 3M 5200 bedding compound, and silicone-bronze coach bolts. I have also been thinking up strategies for getting the building frame square, straight and level (I have quite a few mitre clamps, a 1.2 metre spirit level and a plumb-bob to play about with). I am planning stuff involving pegboard, too - if I can find any pegboard.

    During part of a re-reading of IanMilne’s excellent Kotik thread the other day, I noted Ian’s and andrewpatrol’s discussion about lead ballast and ingots, so I went looking on the internet for lead ingots and found a firm down in Mascot, Central Foundry, I emailed them for a quote on three of their 25kg 560L x 85W x 75H mm ingots, and they replied very promptly this morning. One significant advantage is that I would getting quite pure lead, so the major proportion of what is received will go into ballast pigs, with little having to be skimmed off as scum. I’m getting three ingots because I want to play about with different ballast-weight combinations (i.e., varying pig sizes for different conditions, crew numbers, etc.).

    I also posted a query on the Antipodean thread on WBF asking what people here in Oz use for long fairing battens, after a frustrating search through various main Oz hardware franchise online catalogues. Peter Sibley and RFNK replied suggesting ripping long Tasmanian oak (Eucalyptus spp.) floorboards, or H2 radiata framing timbers, respectively.

    To that end, I have found what appears to be a decent timber yard in Bankstown, and am planning to visit it soon. It is quite possible that this is the place where I got some ‘white pine’ and oregon from, back in 1996 when attempting to make a decent workbench. The only bits of the original bench left in it are the 4”/100 mm square straight clear oregon legs (which I now wish that I’d never cut up into shorter lengths, of course).

    Since there is no 42x 42 mm square hardwood available for the mould spreaders, I will either have to mill them myself - once the tablesaw is reassembled - or use radiata. I note that Mr Milne did in fact use macrocarpa (a softwood like Pinus radiata) for his much larger Kotik moulds. A note in passing regarding tablesaws: my Triton is going to be reconfigured into crosscut saw mode for sizing building frame and Manning bench components shortly (Ian informs me that they are named after Samuel F. Manning, illustrator of The Dory Book, amongst other things, then once that’s done, more permanently into router table/biscuit joiner mode. After that, cross-cutting and ripping will be done on the ‘Carbatec’ 10” tablesaw - and on a long-longed-for bandsaw, I hope.

    I had three 42 x 150 x 6000 mm LVLs for the building frame delivered to Wentworth Falls last week, along with a 42 x 240 x 6000 mm LVL that looked useful for constructing manning benches with. I am still looking for 50 x 240-300 mm solid wood available nearby. Too far away, and transport costs start to be a limiting factor. The place at Bankstown may actually have what I need there, at least according to their very detailed and comprehensive online listings.

    1. Three x 42 x 150 mm, one x 42 x 240 mm, all x 6 m long. The wider board (42 x 240 mm) will be used to make a portion each of the carcasses for a pair of manning benches, for use in building the Sooty Tern.


    Three x 42 x 150 mm, one x 42 x 240 mm, all x 6 m long by Alex1N, on Flickr.

    2. LVLs temporarily joining the oregon board in the living room. The temporary storage was in lieu of shed space - moved now. The point of using the LVLs for the Sooty Tern building frame is that 1., no squaring-up of the frame elements is required; and 2., the lengths are 6 metres, meaning no joins that have to be aligned exactly for truth. One minor adjustment will need to be made to account for the extra 4”/102 mm of the 20’ version, by use of a couple of lengths of 2 x 4 (or close enough - true 2 x 4s no longer exist in this neck o’ the woods) strapped and/or biscuited-and-glued together, as the bow-stem support/forward perpendicular marker. This addition will jut out from the end of the building frame by 100 mm or so, so I will need to round off or mitre the jutting corners to reduce bumping and bruises.


    LVLs joining the oregon board in the living room by Alex1N, on Flickr.


    I am still perplexed by the disappearance of the old drill press’s chuck (and arbor) and belt guards. It is possible that they are in a storage box in the lock-up, so I should make some time to have a ferret around down there. I think that that’s the only place where I haven’t looked.

    I have been thinking about the mould and stem lofting, but have been keeping well away from the shed until I am much more stable - which situation hopefully won’t be too far away.

    I have been feeling on the mend, and even managed to attend a full rehearsal last night.

    Cheers,
    Alex.
    Last edited by Alex1N; 11-08-2018 at 03:25 AM. Reason: Dealing with iPad stupidities - I should know better than to post in forums using Safari, on it
    You can never have too many clamps

  26. #96
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    Apr 2007
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    Singapore
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    11,891

    Default Re: Sooty Tern No. 93

    Well, the only thing worse than building another Sooty Tern is to not be building one of those ridiculous damn things, so I'm afraid you're stuck with it, Alex. Might as well make the best of a bad lot. Anyways, I have no pity to spare, as you can see how I'm still obsessed with mine, despite having all these years and plenty of opportunities to learn better for myself. I'm convinced it can't be helped. You're in for it, mate, whether you will or no.

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