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Thread: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

  1. #1
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    Default Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Roe v Wade will encounter the same fate as the Affordable Care Act.

    Its opponents will not be able to overturn it explicitly, but count on death by a thousand cuts.

    I upped my contribution to NARAL.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Roe v Wade will encounter the same fate as the Affordable Care Act.

    Its opponents will not be able to overturn it explicitly, but count on death by a thousand cuts.

    I upped my contribution to NARAL.
    ditto + Planned Parenthood + ACLU + SPLC!
    Have a Holly Jolly Christmas🎅

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    It appears to me that ANY claim of 'settled constitutional law' is intrinsically a lie.

    The law about the second amendment, for example, was 'settled' in 1939, when the Court declared the right to be a collective, not an individual, one.... but the Heller decision overturned it 60 years later.

    On Roe v. Wade, it's entirely possible it could be overturned, as well.... however, I don't think that would have a particularly big impact. MOST states would still permit abortion... and the few that initially don't would face severe backlash from the electorate, since 'choice' is clearly the preference of voters.

    I'm far more concerned about OTHER potential decisions.

    Can anyone cite any 5-4 decision, in favor of conservatives, that DIDN'T intrinsically advantage the wealthy and powerful, to the disadvantage of ordinary citizens?
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    MOST states would still permit abortion... and the few that initially don't would face severe backlash from the electorate, since 'choice' is clearly the preference of voters.
    there are a number of states that have restricted access to abortion already. It's one of those issues that plays really big in rural america, not so much in the urban or suburban loop.

    The lasting legacy of Kavanaugh is the abandonment of the pretense of precedence and "strict constitutionalism" and an open acknowledgement the Court is highly political. This has been true for decades of course, but people still pretended it was a "higher standard" even after such nakedly political votes as Bush v. Gore.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    All those laws to benefit people or help people won't exist under a Republican Kangaroo court. Kavanaugh will make sure of that.. Guaranteed!

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Settled law or established precedent means nothing once a case reaches the Supreme Court. Collins knows that.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Roe v Wade will encounter the same fate as the Affordable Care Act.

    Its opponents will not be able to overturn it explicitly, but count on death by a thousand cuts.

    I upped my contribution to NARAL.
    Having just read an article in Forbes regarding Jeff Bezos. He with other multi- Billionaires are creating a not for profit health care for their employees. It is not hard to see that this could create a new health care business model to deconstruct the current model. Wishful thinking as it only has teeth before greed seeps in.
    Tom

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    The Great American IQ Test is coming.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    I should be more explicit. Whether Roe v Wade is overturned is irrelevant.

    Rights of women are going to be deeply eroded, whether it is access to birth control or abortion or their right to be safe from sexual harassment or predation. The women I know are feeling anything from caution to outrage.

    Are we going to just let women fall backwards into oppressive times?

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I should be more explicit. Whether Roe v Wade is overturned is irrelevant.

    Rights of women are going to be deeply eroded, whether it is access to birth control or abortion or their right to be safe from sexual harassment or predation. The women I know are feeling anything from caution to outrage.

    Are we going to just let women fall backwards into oppressive times?
    IMO, this is a key piece to the US moving forward (as opposed to the current backwards). All the whining about Bill Clinton aside, I think this is a place where true conservatives & those on the left can agree & work together.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    IMO, this is a key piece to the US moving forward (as opposed to the current backwards). All the whining about Bill Clinton aside, I think this is a place where true conservatives & those on the left can agree & work together.
    There are few true conservatives left. It's the party of Trump.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    There are few true conservatives left.
    About five to be exact!

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    There are few true conservatives left. It's the party of Trump.
    I didn't say any of those conservatives were Trump supporters True conservatives couldn't support him I'd think. However, there are real ones left in state governments I think.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I didn't say any of those conservatives were Trump supporters True conservatives couldn't support him I'd think. However, there are real ones left in state governments I think.
    Flake is a Conservative and he saw no sense running again because he couldn't get re-elected.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Trumpists will win all Republican primaries for a while.

    I’m convinced there is no path forward until Trumpism is discredited, disdained, and destroyed.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    If you think abortion will be allowed after Roe V Wade is overturned, watch the FCC fight net neutrality in California. States rights is only a value when it's hurting Democrats.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Trumpists will win all Republican primaries for a while.

    I’m convinced there is no path forward until Trumpism is discredited, disdained, and destroyed.
    The enjoy being discredited, disdained, ignorant and uneducated. They love to whine when they are accused for being so. Winds them up!

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I didn't say any of those conservatives were Trump supporters True conservatives couldn't support him I'd think. However, there are real ones left in state governments I think.
    A vast majority of conservatives in the US support Trump. His approval rating is highest amongst self-identified conservatives. Trumpism is the Republican party and the Conservative movement. I agree with Mr. Ross that there will be nothing new until Trumpism is dead.

    Don't be fooled by the never-trumpers in the media - they are rare in reality. Don't be fooled by the mendacious senators moralizing - when it comes down to it they support Trump every damn time.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Flake is a Conservative and he saw no sense running again because he couldn't get re-elected.
    When has he voted against Trump?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvida View Post
    If you think abortion will be allowed after Roe V Wade is overturned, watch the FCC fight net neutrality in California. States rights is only a value when it's hurting Democrats.
    I think every issue concerning women's rights, voting rights, etc. will be upheld, against women and against voting rights, by our new court.
    Last edited by John Smith; 10-08-2018 at 11:01 AM.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    A vast majority of conservatives in the US support Trump. His approval rating is highest amongst self-identified conservatives. Trumpism is the Republican party and the Conservative movement. I agree with Mr. Ross that there will be nothing new until Trumpism is dead.

    Don't be fooled by the never-trumpers in the media - they are rare in reality. Don't be fooled by the mendacious senators moralizing - when it comes down to it they support Trump every damn time.
    During the campaign, I emailed "Republicans against Trump" or some such title. I suggested they could stop Trump by simply requiring a candidate to release tax returns in order to be the nominee. Imagine how that would have changed things.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I think every issue concerning women's right, voting rights, etc. will be upheld, against women and against voting rights, by our new court.
    Abortion is not one of their right? I suppose that's good to know.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Abortion is not one of their right? I suppose that's good to know.
    I fully expect, if the issue is abortion, contraception, workplace discrimination, voter restriction, etc. the new court will side against the women and those who have had their voting rights restricted.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I fully expect, if the issue is abortion, contraception, workplace discrimination, voter restriction, etc. the new court will side against the women and those who have had their voting rights restricted.
    It will.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Having just read an article in Forbes regarding Jeff Bezos. He with other multi- Billionaires are creating a not for profit health care for their employees. It is not hard to see that this could create a new health care business model to deconstruct the current model.
    the first two problems which immediately come to mind are -
    A) the insured group is not highly representative of society being a pick of relatively healthy employed - meaning these 'specials' pay less..
    A') this steals money from the greater pool which should support the greater whole - that 'whole' including those most needing.
    B) this is another tool to tie an employee to their job - giving an employer another lever of control, a control which is _always_ to the detriment of the individual.

    No wonder conservatives like Bezos love it.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    The courtís biased protection and expansion of executive privilege is the even greater concern to me but perhaps the reduction in personal freedom will have greater political consequence in the short term.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    The court’s biased protection and expansion of executive privilege is the even greater concern to me but perhaps the reduction in personal freedom will have greater political consequence in the short term.
    A lot of this is hard to say. I have to remember 1980. WE (my union) made enormous efforts to tell our fellow postal employees that Reagan, if elected, would screw up our health insurance, our retirement, and tax us for Medicare without us being eligible for it.

    Our efforts included meetings in neighborhoods, flyers, mailings, bulletins posted in lunch rooms, etc.

    The first of our warnings came true pretty quickly. I had the union health insurance, as did most. First doctor visit per year I paid for. Insurance paid 100% of everything for the rest of the year. Reagan, via the Office of Personnel Management, forced this plan to to have higher premiums and substantial deductibles. This forced many of us into the HMO's where he kept the premium really low.

    Didn't take long for my co-workers to come to me and ask "What the hell is this" when they got hit with higher premiums and deductibles they never had before. All I could say is, "we warned you". We could provide the information. We could not force them to attend the meetings or read their mail.

    Then came a new tax on their pay stub for Medicare. I got the same "What the hell is this". It worked out well, but only because we went to court and won the point that if we were paying the tax, we should get Medicare when we're 65.

    Of course, he then kept his word on our retirement and that pissed off a lot of people. Again, all I could say is they had been warned.

    The bottom line here is I'm not sure so many people are paying attention as we'd like to think.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    John, I can’t argue you with you except to say that in a sensible universe the erosion of rights would result in political consequences. It’s clear we are not denizens in that universe anymore. Europeans we have met on our tour universally shake their heads and wonder what is wrong with America. Then they buy us a glass of wine when we tell them we didn’t vote for Trump.

    I’m planning a thread on our trip and some of the conversations when we get home in two weeks but it’s just too hard to do that and post images while on the road.

    Cris: Lisbon is fantastic and the Algarve region of southern Portugal was an absolute charmer.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade and Affordable Care Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    John, I can’t argue you with you except to say that in a sensible universe the erosion of rights would result in political consequences. It’s clear we are not denizens in that universe anymore. Europeans we have met on our tour universally shake their heads and wonder what is wrong with America. Then they buy us a glass of wine when we tell them we didn’t vote for Trump.

    I’m planning a thread on our trip and some of the conversations when we get home in two weeks but it’s just too hard to do that and post images while on the road.

    Cris: Lisbon is fantastic and the Algarve region of southern Portugal was an absolute charmer.
    I'll look forward to it. I think I know how we got to where we are, although, again, I'm in a minority. We have accepted being lied to for political purpose as free speech. Lies are not 'alternative facts'.

    Where could this lead but to where we are? Even now, Trump says Kavanaugh has been proven innocent, and his fans will believe it.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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