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Thread: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    My mental rigidity was proven correct. The democrats don’t need to push or pull, they need to lead.
    I think the general point is that as soon as it became a choice between Trump and Clinton and not Trump and Sanders there was only one choice. The moral and civic abrogation was on the part of disgruntled Sanders supporters either sitting out the vote, or, worse still, voting for Trump.

    Such abrogation was pure idiocy, and blaming Clinton is a poor excuse for this failure on the part of these numbskulls and their actions that effectively delivered The Planet Earth presidenT trumP. Well plucking done! Good job!

    THIS is the reality of the battlefield my friend. Nothing else.

    Look up the history of the Australian's Greens not supporting the first Cap and Trade carbon exchange legislation in Australia - because it wasn't perfect enough - and how it lead to a leadership vacuum on the Left here and delivered us a slew of cretinous rabid right wing governments at both state and Federal levels in Australia.

    NOT voting for Clinton was the act of giving us all the truculent slob you have as POTUS now.

    Gough Whitlam, one of our greatest prime ministers once chastised his side of politics for the impotency of the ideologically pure.
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Exactly the attitude that gave us Trump.
    Yup.
    Rattling the teacups.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    My mental rigidity was proven correct. The democrats don’t need to push or pull, they need to lead.
    And you need to follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    I think the general point is that as soon as it became a choice between Trump and Clinton and not Trump and Sanders there was only one choice. The moral and civic abrogation was on the part of disgruntled Sanders supporters either sitting out the vote, or, worse still, voting for Trump.

    Such abrogation was pure idiocy, and blaming Clinton is a poor excuse for this failure on the part of these numbskulls and their actions that effectively delivered The Planet Earth presidenT trumP. Well plucking done! Good job!

    THIS is the reality of the battlefield my friend. Nothing else.

    Look up the history of the Australian's Greens not supporting the first Cap and Trade carbon exchange legislation in Australia - because it wasn't perfect enough - and how it lead to a leadership vacuum on the Left here and delivered us a slew of cretinous rabid right wing governments at both state and Federal levels in Australia.

    NOT voting for Clinton was the act of giving us all the truculent slob you have as POTUS now.

    Gough Whitlam, one of our greatest prime ministers once chastised his side of politics for the impotency of the ideologically pure.

    Yup.
    Rattling the teacups.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    We have gone over this exact same argument before.

    The same accusations, and the same rebuttal.

    All that is missing is for someone to claim that Hillary voted for the Iraq war.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    I think the general point is that as soon as it became a choice between Trump and Clinton and not Trump and Sanders there was only one choice. The moral and civic abrogation was on the part of disgruntled Sanders supporters either sitting out the vote, or, worse still, voting for Trump.

    Such abrogation was pure idiocy, and blaming Clinton is a poor excuse for this failure on the part of these numbskulls and their actions that effectively delivered The Planet Earth presidenT trumP. Well plucking done! Good job!

    THIS is the reality of the battlefield my friend. Nothing else.

    Look up the history of the Australian's Greens not supporting the first Cap and Trade carbon exchange legislation in Australia - because it wasn't perfect enough - and how it lead to a leadership vacuum on the Left here and delivered us a slew of cretinous rabid right wing governments at both state and Federal levels in Australia.

    NOT voting for Clinton was the act of giving us all the truculent slob you have as POTUS now.

    Gough Whitlam, one of our greatest prime ministers once chastised his side of politics for the impotency of the ideologically pure.
    I voted for the scum Clinton for the reason you state. The more I talk to Trump voters, the more it comes out that they felt the same way about Trump, they held their nose for the less evil candidate. My only disagreement with them is that they judged the worst of the two poorly. Do you get what an idiotic argument it is to have about who was the worse candidate? If I have a hard time differentiating the scale of shi77y, and I'm relatively well informed, how the heck can the rest of the them decide. That's on the Democrats. If the Democracy part of this democratic republic is to survive, we need to figure out how to dissolve the cynicism. I've been spending that last 6 months guilting Millennials into registering to vote, for anyone, someone, just f43ing vote. The most prevalent thing I hear; my vote doesn't matter. That they only get to vote from a pool of folks that have been chosen for them. That is where Clintion is a huge source of a lack of trust. They see Trump as the Republicans giving the people a choice. Effed up, I know, but that's the reality and it is fully the DNC's and Clinton's fault. Until that is addressed by the DNC, they will find it very hard to field candidates.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    We have gone over this exact same argument before.

    The same accusations, and the same rebuttal.

    All that is missing is for someone to claim that Hillary voted for the Iraq war.
    She made this speech fully understanding the conventional thinking that Sanders expressed a day before, almost prophetically, I might add. She knew full well what she was voting for and where it would lead, if Sanders knew, she knew, she is clearly more intelligent than he and clearly had, at the time, vastly more experience with such decisions than he, being in the White House for 8 years. Keep making excuses and trying to paint people like me as fringe, that's the condescension I'm talking about. It's insulting.

    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    And you need to follow.
    Leadership is earned. When they start leading, I will follow. Funny, I always though you were your own man.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Box. Checked.
    She gave the president full power. WTF did she think was going to happen? Sanders knew. Explain it to me.

    You're just like the Trump supporters, willing to only see what you want to see. Either way, she lost to Trump, despite millions of us holding our collective noses and voting for her. You're part of the problem. Hey, let's run Biden or Warren this time around!!!! Watch us go down in flames . . . . You're old way of thinking is no longer relevant, with it, we will loose every time.

    You ever do martial arts, fight competitively? I have. Every fight, every fighter is different. If I treated every fight the same I would have lost every time. When you fight a giant, you use their weight and strength against them, when you fight a lightweight who is stronger than steel, you keep them at a distance, don't let then get a hold of you.

    We need to own the field of battle and not simply react to it. Every choice must be ours. That, is how Trump won. That, is how Obama won. Hillary lost because she simply thought it was her turn and she was smart enough. She's an excellent administrator, an excellent Secretary of State, but a lousy leader.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    You're just like the Trump supporters, willing to only see what you want to see.

    You haven't even asked me what I think.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    You haven't even asked me what I think.
    It doesn't matter anymore. You presumed the intellectual authority to "yank my chain" instead of initially presenting yourself honestly. You've lost me. I have zero respect for you because you have zero respect for me.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Exactly the attitude that gave us Trump. The fact is, Clinton won the nomination by getting more votes. If Sanders had got more votes, he would have been the candidate. And I don't think Hillary's supporters would have sat on their hands rather than vote against Trump.

    So, first Sanders didn't get enough votes to win the nomination, because there are parts of the Democratic coalition that preferred Clinton, then some of Sanders' supporters were too petulant to support the progressive candidate against one that was cartoonishly evil.

    Yeah, that's Hillary's fault.
    OR, you could say that her leadership was lacking to the point that she couldn't win the petulant Sanders supporters back. Listen, you can keep on the same tack and throw it all away in 2020, be my guest. Many of those that voted for Trump , who are ready to vote for an alternative in 2020, need to know that the DNC values them and their needs. So far, in their eyes, Trump is winning. How do we change that; more of the same?
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I voted for the scum Clinton for the reason you state. [snip]
    She's the fairy godmother, Queen and Princess Consort of all the heavens rolled into one when compared to Trump. There was never any nose holding styled voting for Clinton unless you swallowed the RWW version of who she is.

    Is she perfect? No wucking fay! Is she about eleventy billion times better than Trump? You can bet your life and your soul on it, and that of your grandmother too.

    She was always going to run, and that's what was so objectionable to a swathe of Democratic voters, and so they swallowed the GOP spin to find excuses to dislike her.

    Propaganda works, that's why it's used.

    Benghazi
    Anti-vaxers
    Birthers
    Clinton-is-evil
    There's no proof of evolution
    There's no proof of climate change
    Fluoridation makes you dumb...

    The litany of blinking idiocy goes on.

    Tie the blinking idiocy to some form of hate like the Trumpisters do, and whoopty do! There's your down home gold-dang fascist state in the making right there.
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  15. #50
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    She's the fairy godmother, Queen and Princess Consort of all the heavens rolled into one when compared to Trump. There was never any nose holding styled voting for Clinton unless you swallowed the RWW version of who she is.

    Is she perfect? No wucking fay! Is she about eleventy billion times better than Trump? You can bet your life and your soul on it, and that of your grandmother too.

    She was always going to run, and that's what was so objectionable to a swathe of Democratic voters, and so they swallowed the GOP spin to find excuses to dislike her.

    Propaganda works, that's why it's used.

    Benghazi
    Anti-vaxers
    Birthers
    Clinton-is-evil
    There's no proof of evolution
    There's no proof of climate change
    Fluoridation makes you dumb...

    The litany of blinking idiocy goes on.

    Tie the blinking idiocy to some form of hate like the Trumpisters do, and whoopty do! There's your down home gold-dang fascist state in the making right there.
    Do you think my dislike of her is based in propaganda?

    -Voted for the war powers act
    -was against gay marriage until it was politically inconvenient to do so. (This is huge, like constitutionally contradictory to have ever held the belief that homosexuals are an inferior cast)
    -she clearly supported the corporate elites over the average person. All she had to do was release transcripts of her paid speeches to them which occurred behind closed doors.
    -she was the wife of a president who served for 8 years, The USA was founded on the basis that we would not support dynasties. She was exposed to all of the in's and out's and is so well versed in how to maneuver that it presents the potential for abuse. It's not an option for me.
    -single payer healthcare. She was never going to move this cause forward and healthcare is the single most heavy burden on our countries workers and our economy.
    -wage dis-parody between the working class and the corporate elites. She was never going to move this cause forward.
    -fixing "to big to fail". She was never going to move this cause forward.

    I could list more but these are the big ones. Where are my opinions generated from propaganda?

    Yes, better than Trump, established a million times, but still not good for our country in a big way.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Leadership is earned. When they start leading, I will follow.
    Well, there's your problem, right there.

    Seems to me like 40% of the electorate decided to hold their breath and stamp their little feet until they turned blue instead of voting, and now we have their natural choice in the White House: A spoiled-rotten, tantrum-pitching, POS, three-year-old, who lacks potty-training, verbal skills and any shred of decency.



    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Funny, I always though you were your own man.
    I am a US citizen first, and 'my own man' second.

    The infantile diatribe you regard as 'political analysis' is EXACTLY what Trump tapped into to destroy this duly-constituted republic, and convert a once-proud nation into a groveling, third-world spithole.

    Rattling the teacups.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Jesus McMike channel your anger. There isn’t any need for redemption or rigidly adhering to some narrative about how we got here. Just take care o biz and give.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Well, there's your problem, right there.

    Seems to me like 40% of the electorate decided to hold their breath and stamp their little feet until they turned blue instead of voting, and now we have their natural choice in the White House: A spoiled-rotten, tantrum-pitching, POS, three-year-old, who lacks potty-training, verbal skills and any shred of decency.





    I am a US citizen first, and 'my own man' second.

    The infantile diatribe you regard as 'political analysis' is EXACTLY what Trump tapped into to destroy this duly-constituted republic, and convert a once-proud nation into a groveling, third-world spithole.

    Thanks for your clarity.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Jesus McMike channel your anger. There isn’t any need for redemption or rigidly adhering to some narrative about how we got here. Just take care o biz and give.
    Lol, with that kind of attitude, we will definitely be in a civil war withing the next 6 years. I'll go on voting for the the better sh177y candidate but it won't solve much . . . I can't believe how weak my fellow liberals are.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Lol, with that kind of attitude, we will definitely be in a civil war withing the next 6 years. I'll go on voting for the the better sh177y candidate but it won't solve much . . . I can't believe how weak my fellow liberals are.
    civil war between what factions?

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    civil war between what factions?
    Really?
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    civil war between what factions?
    Watch this gem, half a million views.

    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Watch this gem, half a million views.

    yeah, Patriot Nurse, seen her before. She’s got her own little section of the youtube prepper world.

    On Croatia’s Got Talent the Human Magnet guy gets 4 million views.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xammaXItWp0

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    yeah, Patriot Nurse, seen her before. She’s got her own little section of the youtube prepper world.

    On Croatia’s Got Talent the Human Magnet guy gets 4 million views.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xammaXItWp0
    Good point. She still disturbs me, mostly because I hear her sentiment up close and in person by far to many people I have the pleasure of working with.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I'm conflicted. I hate the Moe-foe, why would I want to become him? But then . . . what's the alternative?

    I want to be clear, I was dead wrong about state's rights in terms of arguing for a more centralized government; I feel the only thing protecting us from the full brunt of Trump's/Republican's insanity and any future result of it is State's rights. I was also dead wrong about the 2nd amendment; the only thing protecting us from the violence that Trump supporters are, in large numbers, threatening us with.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I'm conflicted. I hate the Moe-foe, why would I want to become him? But then . . . what's the alternative?

    I want to be clear, I was dead wrong about state's rights in terms of arguing for a more centralized government; I feel the only thing protecting us from the full brunt of Trump's/Republican's insanity and any future result of it is State's rights. I was also dead wrong about the 2nd amendment; the only thing protecting us from the violence that Trump supporters are, in large numbers, threatening us with.
    I can hear MitchVader's dark, breathy whisper now: "Mike... I am your father. Come to the dark side."
    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Good point. She still disturbs me, mostly because I hear her sentiment up close and in person by far to many people I have the pleasure of working with.
    Ok, her guns and stash of rice and beans won’t do squat when only 10% more people vote. She can spin out youtube clips about wilderness firstaid, midwifery and keeping medicines refrigerated to her hearts content while her extremist buddies vibrate with anticipation of an armed battle.

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I can hear MitchVader's dark, breathy whisper now: "Mike... I am your father. Come to the dark side."
    Right!!!? I'm not that weak fugger's going to have to kill me first, and even then, he will only make me stronger
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Thanks for your clarity.
    you're welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Lol, with that kind of attitude, we will definitely be in a civil war withing the next 6 years. I'll go on voting for the the better sh177y candidate but it won't solve much . . . I can't believe how weak my fellow liberals are.
    What you so rigorously ignore is that it is the Berniacs who are weak.

    Spineless, wretched, spoiled-rotten, tantrum-pitching, willing tools of Satan.


    We could not simply elect Hillary and then go fishing.

    The imperative was to elect Hillary and then keep turning those thumbscrews to force her to bend to our will.

    She is a political animal, AS YOU, YOURSELF, NOTE.

    This meme about how 'politicians 'flip-flop' and that's a BAD thing' is deeply and tragically flawed.

    A politician is SUPPOSED to flip-flop at the behest of her electorate.

    If more of her supporters tell her they favor corporate control, then she is SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT CORPORATE CONTROL!

    If her electorate then get 'woke' and tell her that this is a bad idea and likely to get her thrown out of office next go 'round, then she had better Goram get her head around it and work to end corporate control.

    THAT'S THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK.

    The infantile, moronic, tantrum-pitching, 'non-voter-and/or I'm-voting-for-Trump-because-Hillary-has-been-smeared-by-the-ratfreakers' bloc have installed the Moron King, and now they have the brass to freaking COMPLAIN about it.

    If Sanders and his cohort were actual ADULTS, and had taken the time to understand that Lady Liberty has a knife to her throat, they would have voted Hillary and then held her feet to the fire and bent her to their will.

    It would have been easy as falling off a log.

    By your own account, she is easily bent to the will of her supporters.

    To all the Berniacs I say GROW UP!!!
    Last edited by oznabrag; 10-07-2018 at 11:58 AM.
    Rattling the teacups.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I'm conflicted. I hate the Moe-foe, why would I want to become him? But then . . . what's the alternative?

    I want to be clear, I was dead wrong about state's rights in terms of arguing for a more centralized government; I feel the only thing protecting us from the full brunt of Trump's/Republican's insanity and any future result of it is State's rights. I was also dead wrong about the 2nd amendment; the only thing protecting us from the violence that Trump supporters are, in large numbers, threatening us with.
    The alternative is to vote for a politician who will be responsive and responsible to her electorate.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Oz, I reject your assessment, it's horribly flawed. Good luck with that . . . and after all your frothing and disrespect . . . good for you.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Oz, I reject your assessment, it's horribly flawed. Good luck with that . . . and after all your frothing and disrespect . . . good for you.
    Show me the flaws, Grasshopper.

    Further, there is no froth or disrespect, just facts.

    If the truth is uncomfortable to you, then there may be hope for you.

    Imagine my post being delivered in measured tones by a steely-eyed monster who doesn't give a rip whether you're offended or not.

    The FACT of the matter is that Hillary is a political animal.

    She can be controlled by an engaged electorate.

    Trump doesn't give a dang whether you live or die.

    YOU have to take responsibility for her positions on whatever, because SHE takes responsibility for yours.

    THAT is electoral politics.

    The Berniacs abdicated that responsibility and voted for the Balrog.

    Then they have the brass to complain that their village has been laid waste.
    Rattling the teacups.

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    CT, USA
    Posts
    10,469

    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Show me the flaws, Grasshopper.

    Further, there is no froth or disrespect, just facts.

    If the truth is uncomfortable to you, then there may be hope for you.

    Imagine my post being delivered in measured tones by a steely-eyed monster who doesn't give a rip whether you're offended or not.

    The FACT of the matter is that Hillary is a political animal.

    She can be controlled by an engaged electorate.

    Trump doesn't give a dang whether you live or die.

    YOU have to take responsibility for her positions on whatever, because SHE takes responsibility for yours.

    THAT is electoral politics.

    The Berniacs abdicated that responsibility and voted for the Balrog.

    Then they have the brass to complain that their village has been laid waste.
    I'm not your effing grasshopper. Enough from you.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24,235

    Default Re: Democrats will never get redemption until . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I'm not your effing grasshopper. Enough from you.
    Not even close to enough.

    It is not my responsibility that you understand electoral politics.
    Rattling the teacups.

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