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Thread: Dear Dads,

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    If proven he should be treated the same way the law treats any rapist.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    My Mother recently told me a story of what happened to her from a previous employer. I shan't go into details of who or where, but he walked up behind her and put his hands on her breasts and asked "does this do anything for you?" I am the only other person who knows except for her. He and the next boss she had at that job have all passed on.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Ooops! 'Missed it.... by a mile!'
    For a doctor, you're an idiot.

    Did you notice the claim in the article, the one not mentioned by Peter, of rape by Juanita Broaddrick?

    The question asked by WX was if Bill Clinton had ever been accused of rape. He in fact had been accused of rape. By Juanita Broaddrick.

    So I answered his question on a very fair and upright manner, posting a link that showed both sides of the story. Nothing more, just helping WX out. Yet you let your true nature show... and it's sad.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    If proven he should be treated the same way the law treats any rapist.
    True.

    The best way to do that, is for the victims to bring charges right away. That provides for much clearer testimony, and hopefully removes that kind of person from the general public for a long time.

    Forty years later is weak at best.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    True.

    The best way to do that, is for the victims to bring charges right away. That provides for much clearer testimony, and hopefully removes that kind of person from the general public for a long time.

    Forty years later is weak at best.
    Except when it's boys / men and Catholic priests ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Did any of you ever work in a male dominated place with a closeted gay boss?
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
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  7. #77
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    40 years ago, when you were 18?
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
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  8. #78
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    What would you have done if you'd been thrown on the floor by two men and they'd attempted to rape you?
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
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  9. #79
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Aside from getting out of that job ASAP.

    Would you have gone to the cops?

    Would you have gone to human resources?

    What if you were out at a bar, or in a club with your friends?
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
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  10. #80
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    I understand wanting to abolish abortion and support Trump. And I understand women who think a little grab of their ass is a compliment and dress up to get that attention.

    But how would you have dealt with the situation Dr. Ford was in if it had been two guys forcing you to submit to sex?
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
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  11. #81
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    What some don't realize is that sometimes women don't tell because they are afraid that the men in their lives who will "take care of it" for them could end up in jail or worse.
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    How many men do you know who are appalled at the treatment of women in "primitive" places like Afghanistan and Pakistan, and whole heartedly support our going over there to bring "civilization" and "democracy" to those primitive people, but who wholeheartedly disbelieve Ford's story and support Kavanaugh?
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    How many men do you know who are appalled at the treatment of women in "primitive" places like Afghanistan and Pakistan, and whole heartedly support our going over there to bring "civilization" and "democracy" to those primitive people, but who wholeheartedly disbelieve Ford's story and support Kavanaugh?
    Oh, Miz elf, you are on a roll.

    If you skewer these guys (they now know who they are) a few more times, they're gonna end up 'woke'.

    You go, girl!
    Rattling the teacups.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    How many men do you know who are appalled at the treatment of women in "primitive" places like Afghanistan and Pakistan, and whole heartedly support our going over there to bring "civilization" and "democracy" to those primitive people, but who wholeheartedly disbelieve Ford's story and support Kavanaugh?
    I am very pleased to say that I don't know any man who feels this way. I should rephrase that: I do not have any friends that feel that way but there may be some men who do that I have not talked to about it. While someone will probably be along to accuse me of virtue signaling or some such, any man who felt that way would no longer be a friend.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I am very pleased to say that I don't know any man who feels this way. I should rephrase that: I do not have any friends that feel that way but there may be some men who do that I have not talked to about it. While someone will probably be along to accuse me of virtue signaling or some such, any man who felt that way would no longer be a friend.
    Sure, Garret, but you're from Vermont!
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Sure, Garret, but you're from Vermont!
    We have our own troglodytes...

    However, I do believe that, overall, VT is somewhat more enlightened than some other places. It's one of the main reasons I live here - along with loving crappy weather...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    What would you have done if you'd been thrown on the floor by two men and they'd attempted to rape you?
    Murder by any means, then or later, whenever it became possible.

    The real problem in all of this is that by its very nature there are generally few, if any, witnesses. I honestly don't know how to change that without doing away with due process or making women feel they are prisoners in their daily lives. I've considered the value of video cameras everywhere, even in homes and offices, but it probably would not work. People here scream when you suggest them on street corners. There will always be a percentage of the human population that are predators. The hardest question to answer is "How do we protect people from them?" and I do not know the answer.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    How many men do you know who are appalled at the treatment of women in "primitive" places like Afghanistan ...
    It was the #1, the only, reason why I supported going into Afghanistan and it was a horrible mistake.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Yeah. I've talked to my daughters about times they've been harrassed. It's wrenching to hear, and horrifying to hear how often, how casually and how thoughtlessly it happens. I can well imagine that things many of us think are absolutely harmless or humorous are in fact, disturbing.
    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Murder by any means, then or later, whenever it became possible.

    The real problem in all of this is that by its very nature there are generally few, if any, witnesses. I honestly don't know how to change that without doing away with due process or making women feel they are prisoners in their daily lives. I've considered the value of video cameras everywhere, even in homes and offices, but it probably would not work. People here scream when you suggest them on street corners. There will always be a percentage of the human population that are predators. The hardest question to answer is "How do we protect people from them?" and I do not know the answer.
    Cultural change is the only way. Yes there will always be a few predators, just as there are a few murderers, thieves etc. But back in Kavanaghs days, and probably still today, behaviour such as his was pretty normal, common, accepted. Not good, but boys will be boys. Frat house stuff. Now a whole lot of people will pile on and say that's not true, but that denies all the stats we are seeing about the prevalence of sexual assault, date rape etc. I think an awful lot of guys have got drunk and passed out when they were teenagers, and have groped a girl at a party against her wishes. It's awful. But maybe, just maybe Trump and his band of pussy grabbers have accidentally turned the tide, so that at last the attitude of acceptance, tolerance of such behaviour, is turning. I hope so.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    True.

    The best way to do that, is for the victims to bring charges right away. That provides for much clearer testimony, and hopefully removes that kind of person from the general public for a long time.

    Forty years later is weak at best.
    We just had a Royal Commision into child sexual abuse, many of the victims had been abused 30-40 years previous. There are many reasons why a victim may stay quiet about an abuse for that long.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    There will always be a percentage of the human population that are predators. The hardest question to answer is "How do we protect people from them?" and I do not know the answer.
    Look, there are sick-os who actually are driven to be predators, and then there are jerks, like Kavanaugh who seeks approval from other jerks for being a jerk in public. Stopping sick-os is one problem, but the tool for stopping the jerks is peer pressure. To exert that, you have to do it everywhere, every day, all the time.

    Just stop modelling the behavior. Stop with your sons, stop with your spouse, stop with your mother, stop at work, stop everywhere you go. Frown at the pin-up calendar at the car dealer, suggest that's not appropriate for public areas, and not really for private ones eother. Turn off the TV, or ask that it be turned off, when you're in a public space and it's showing something abusive. Recommend to the doctor's office that they stop carrying and displaying the body-building magazines and the lurid checkout crap, and the Women's Day crap which models submissive behavior to the women in the waiting room.

    And if you can get away with it, stop your wife, stop your father, stop your brother, stop your friend when you meet at the bar for a drink, stop the people in a group when you see them heckling a woman no matter what she's wearing/doing/whether she's performing/or drunk/or coming on to you.

    Stop approving, stop laughing, stop being an example of the disrespectful behavior.

    In public you can say things like "y'know, that program is really offensive. Could you turn it off please?" Other useful words are dishonest, misleading, ugly, childish. Don't be obnoxious, but do it.

    Only people refusing to objectify each other can set a standard for not treating others like things.

    And as you go through life, start noticing how much uglyness there is in public about gender disparities. Comment on the models in store windows - "jeez, how can she balance on those awful shoes" - comment on the ad in the car dealer window - "whaddayah think they're selling - a car or a sexy female?" You'd think that car would sell even without those boobs, don't you? I wonder what's wrong with it, that the company thinks it needs boobs to sell?" And when your buddy laughs at you, don't laugh with him.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    I am reliably informed that a highly rating series of The Bachelor has just finished here, and the audience is almost exclusively young females.

    What you walk past(watch) you accept……………..

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    The best way to do that, is for the victims to bring charges right away.
    Definitely the best way - and if it can't be the best way, then a 'not quite as good way' will have to do, all the way down to 'it could have been done a lot better than this', way.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Look, there are sick-os who actually are driven to be predators, and then there are jerks, like Kavanaugh who seeks approval from other jerks for being a jerk in public. Stopping sick-os is one problem, but the tool for stopping the jerks is peer pressure. To exert that, you have to do it everywhere, every day, all the time.

    Just stop modelling the behavior. Stop with your sons, stop with your spouse, stop with your mother, stop at work, stop everywhere you go. Frown at the pin-up calendar at the car dealer, suggest that's not appropriate for public areas, and not really for private ones eother. Turn off the TV, or ask that it be turned off, when you're in a public space and it's showing something abusive. Recommend to the doctor's office that they stop carrying and displaying the body-building magazines and the lurid checkout crap, and the Women's Day crap which models submissive behavior to the women in the waiting room.

    And if you can get away with it, stop your wife, stop your father, stop your brother, stop your friend when you meet at the bar for a drink, stop the people in a group when you see them heckling a woman no matter what she's wearing/doing/whether she's performing/or drunk/or coming on to you.

    Stop approving, stop laughing, stop being an example of the disrespectful behavior.

    In public you can say things like "y'know, that program is really offensive. Could you turn it off please?" Other useful words are dishonest, misleading, ugly, childish. Don't be obnoxious, but do it.

    Only people refusing to objectify each other can set a standard for not treating others like things.

    And as you go through life, start noticing how much uglyness there is in public about gender disparities. Comment on the models in store windows - "jeez, how can she balance on those awful shoes" - comment on the ad in the car dealer window - "whaddayah think they're selling - a car or a sexy female?" You'd think that car would sell even without those boobs, don't you? I wonder what's wrong with it, that the company thinks it needs boobs to sell?" And when your buddy laughs at you, don't laugh with him.
    I have NEVER groped, hit, verbally or physically abused any woman, and agree with some of what you say, but I know many women that want to wear high heels, enjoy showing cleavage, and flirting provocatively. They are happy to look and feel like their gender stereotypes. There are some great rape scenes in many films that horrify .. The girl with the Dragon Tattoo springs to mind. Should it not have been made? Most music videos are extremely sexist, made by both sexes. So a lot of what you propose won't fly.

    I have been groped by several women although I myself have never done that to a woman. I also have known a lot of women that watch porn, and many have rape sexual fantasies, albeit role play.

    Many animals rape, and they don't even watch TV or read magazines.

    Im sorry if something happened to you Elf, but you are suggesting changing 30,000,000 years of gender-sexual psychology...better that women are better equipped to deal with situations such as being careful, self defence, awareness etc, and men are more educated about the consequences of their actions, such as meeting an abuse victim to wake them up and be more aware of the damage they can do.

    The closest I have been to being raped was being pinned down by 8 rugby players, stripped of all my clothing and thrown out of a window. It wasn't nice.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I am reliably informed that a highly rating series of The Bachelor has just finished here, and the audience is almost exclusively young females.

    What you walk past(watch) you accept……………..
    I find that show and others like it revolting on many levels.
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    I find that show and others like it revolting on many levels.
    Hi, Pat, I’d like to buy an “e”, and go on a date with Jeremy and Steven.

    Peace,
    Weird. Super, Duper Weird

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    I have NEVER groped, hit, verbally or physically abused any woman, and agree with some of what you say, but I know many women that want to wear high heels, enjoy showing cleavage, and flirting provocatively. They are happy to look and feel like their gender stereotypes. There are some great rape scenes in many films that horrify .. The girl with the Dragon Tattoo springs to mind. Should it not have been made? Most music videos are extremely sexist, made by both sexes. So a lot of what you propose won't fly.

    I have been groped by several women although I myself have never done that to a woman. I also have known a lot of women that watch porn, and many have rape sexual fantasies, albeit role play.

    Many animals rape, and they don't even watch TV or read magazines.

    Im sorry if something happened to you Elf, but you are suggesting changing 30,000,000 years of gender-sexual psychology...better that women are better equipped to deal with situations such as being careful, self defence, awareness etc, and men are more educated about the consequences of their actions, such as meeting an abuse victim to wake them up and be more aware of the damage they can do.

    The closest I have been to being raped was being pinned down by 8 rugby players, stripped of all my clothing and thrown out of a window. It wasn't nice.
    Rugby is a very odd ritual.

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Rugby is a very odd ritual.
    Agreed. They were my friends.

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