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Thread: Dear Dads,

  1. #1
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    Default Dear Dads,

    This is the world we send our daughters into.

    Dear dads: Your daughters told me about their assaults. This is why they never told you.

    A man emailed recently in response to something I’d written about street harassment. He was so glad, he said, that his college-age daughter never experienced anything like that. Less than a day later, he wrote again. They had just talked. She told him she’d been harassed many, many times — including that week. She hadn’t ever shared this, because she wanted to protect him from her pain.

    For all the stereotypes that linger about women being too fragile or emotional, these past weeks have revealed what many women already knew: A lot of effort goes into protecting men we love from bad things that happen to us. And a lot of fathers are closer to bad things than they’ll ever know.

    “Two of my daughters have told me stories that I had never heard before about things that happened to them in high school,” Fox News anchor Chris Wallace mused on air last Thursday, as he urged skeptical viewers to carefully consider the testimony of Christine Blasey Ford.

    If you are a father who hasn’t heard these stories, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. They’ve been pouring into my inbox almost every day.

    To the father of the young woman who was assaulted by the student athlete she was hired to tutor: She never told you because she didn’t want to break your heart. But she told me, in a long email, because the memory of it was breaking her own heart and she’d spent five years replaying it.

    To the father of the junior high student who was pinned down and undressed at a gathering 30 years ago: She didn’t tell you because she didn’t want to see you cry. But she told me that she still remembers every detail.

    To the father of the teenager who was raped at a party. You don’t know about this, because she was certain that if you knew, you would kill her attacker and go to prison, and it would be her fault.

    To the father of the son who was assaulted by an older man: I wish I could tell you more about what happened to him, but he wouldn’t tell me, and he definitely won’t tell you, because manliness is important to you, he says.

    To all the fathers of all the silent victims: Your children are quietly carrying these stories, not because they can’t handle their emotions but because they’re worried that you can’t. They are worried that your emotions will have too many consequences. Or they fear you won’t think of them the same way. Or that you’ll be distraught because you didn’t protect them.

    “It meant I would have to talk about something sexual,” one woman wrote me, about why it took her decades to tell her father about an assault at a pool party when she was 10. “And that was a completely taboo subject.”

    I have been thinking lately about taboos, and how many of them exist because women don’t want to make men uncomfortable with lady pain — a broad spectrum that includes cramps, breast-feeding, the viscera of childbirth, the achiness of menstruation.

    Some grown men still react to tampons as if they’re grenades, and as a result, many grown women still furtively pass them between ourselves in shadowy corridors, so nobody else feels awkward.

    It’s silly, and we must know this at some level. But if the mention of Tampax makes a man need a fainting couch, is it any wonder we decide he’s not ready to hear messier stories?

    A dear friend shared this week that she was repeatedly molested as a kid. She’s fine now, she said. The only reason she hadn’t spoken up publicly was because her father still didn’t know; it would devastate him. She saw the irony in this — that even in her own recovery, she had been concerned with shielding a man from agony.

    “But Lord, my dad’s done an awful lot for me,” she wrote. “And I can and will do this for him.”

    This makes sense to me. All of us want to protect our loved ones from painful information. I don’t want this woman’s father to have to deal with it either.

    But when I think of my friend’s valiant secrecy, I want to cry.

    So, to the rest of you: If you can tell your father in a way that feels safe, and in a way that would bring you comfort, tell your father. Tell your brothers. Let them be uncomfortable; let them share some of your pain. Don’t let them be ignorant. If your fathers are going to form beliefs about how victims should act and what perpetrators look like, then force your father to deal with the complication of making those assumptions about someone he loves.

    And if you yourself are a father, and you believe this would never happen to your daughter — how do you know?

    She might not have told you. But she has told me.

    A 50-something woman called me this week. She told me her father was the parent she always wanted to impress; disappointing him was the worst thing she could imagine. That’s what was in her mind 40 years ago when a group of neighborhood boys lured her into a house and assaulted her, one of them watching the door, two of them digitally penetrating her. She was thinking about how she didn’t want to disappoint her father.

    Last week, this woman began feeling like her dad couldn’t really know who she was unless she told him about the attack. She called him, and the story came out in a tumble.

    On the telephone that day, she says, he spoke to her in his “dad voice.” Not the adult tone he usually used when they talked now. But in the voice of her childhood, comforting and parental.

    In his dad voice, he told her she didn’t have to share the whole story with him now. But when she was ready, he wanted to listen.

    monica.hesse@washpost.com
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/...cid=spartandhp

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Spot on. My daughters never told me about school problems - because they knew I'd do something about it. One daughter assaulted, raped - I didn't learn of it, for nearly a year. She brought charges - and that was her two years in hell. Quite 'the system' we have, isn't it?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbi...00&__tn__=EH-R

    Men ask why women are so pissed off, even guys with wives and daughters. Jackson Katz, a prominent social researcher, illustrates why. He's done it with hundreds of audiences:

    "I draw a line down the middle of a chalkboard, sketching a male symbol on one side and a female symbol on the other.

    Then I ask just the men: What steps do you guys take, on a daily basis, to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? At first there is a kind of awkward silence as the men try to figure out if they've been asked a trick question. The silence gives way to a smattering of nervous laughter. Occasionally, a young a guy will raise his hand and say, 'I stay out of prison.' This is typically followed by another moment of laughter, before someone finally raises his hand and soberly states, 'Nothing. I don't think about it.'

    Then I ask the women the same question. What steps do you take on a daily basis to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? Women throughout the audience immediately start raising their hands. As the men sit in stunned silence, the women recount safety precautions they take as part of their daily routine.

    Hold my keys as a potential weapon.
    Look in the back seat of the car before getting in.
    Carry a cell phone.
    Don't go jogging at night.
    Lock all the windows when I sleep, even on hot summer nights.
    Be careful not to drink too much. Don't put my drink down and come back to it; make sure I see it being poured.
    Own a big dog.
    Carry Mace or pepper spray.
    Have an unlisted phone number.
    Have a man's voice on my answering machine.
    Park in well-lit areas.
    Don't use parking garages.
    Don't get on elevators with only one man, or with a group of men.
    Vary my route home from work.
    Watch what I wear.
    Don't use highway rest areas.
    Use a home alarm system.
    Don't wear headphones when jogging.
    Avoid forests or wooded areas, even in the daytime.
    Don't take a first-floor apartment.
    Go out in groups.
    Own a firearm.
    Meet men on first dates in public places.
    Make sure to have a car or cab fare.
    Don't make eye contact with men on the street.
    Make assertive eye contact with men on the street.”

    ― Jackson Katz, The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help

    (The first man to minor in women's studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, holds a master's degree from the Harvard Graduate School of Education, and a Ph.D. in cultural studies and education from UCLA.)


    Makes you real proud to be a man, eh?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    This is a truth posed as a joke:

    When I was engaged a Menonite friend of mine (that's right) taught my wife the proper way to throw a punch. He taught her thumb on the outside, back of hand in line with the forearm, knuckles first, and twist when you hit. To this day all my wife needs to do is raise her fist, punch the air and twist, and I get the message.

    Joke aside, women need to be taught to overcome social expectations of gentility and be able to kick a guy in the testimonials at the first sign of danger and then run screaming. They need to practice it and know that their femininity is in no way hampered by their willingness to defend themselves. And then men need to step up and help them.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    My wife is a formidable fighter, but my daughter is trained in Wing Chun and 165 pounds of softball catcher, to boot. She has once used her physical prowess to defend her friend.

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. I hope it goes without saying that NOBODY gets to be handsy or mouthy if I’m around. I despise bullies of all sorts.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    This all rings true.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    so says a collection of old white men...

    Please stop with your sermonizing. You're the last group that ought to be heard from on this issue. Few or none here could be heard to articulate anything whatsoever about these issues until they came up as a partisan issue with respect to Kavanaugh's nomination.

    In fact, the Bilge generally has been a den of sexism and macho male entitlement until relatively recently. Pack it in.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    My, we have missed you SB.

    So you're saying that you never read any of the "self defence" threads that have cropped up over the years? The search function might help.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    A recent example includes elf's criticisms as posted here (which were spot on, by the way), but like clockwork the bunch jumped down her throat, reacting defensively and with nary a moment of thoughtful reflection. Proving the pudding as they say. Maybe Senator Hirono was right, after all.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    He’s busting out like Captain America ready to bring disdain and ridicule upon privileged white men!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    No one can channel victimhood better than Two Scoops. Listen to Ann SB.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...nl_most&wpmm=1

    From President Trump to his namesake son to Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), the howls of outrage crystallize a strong current of grievance within a party whose leadership is almost entirely white and overwhelmingly male — and which does not make a secret of its fear that demographic shifts and cultural convulsions could jeopardize its grip on power.

    This outbreak of male resentment now seems likely to play a defining role in the midterm elections just five weeks away, contrasting with a burst of enthusiasm among women propelling Democratic campaigns and inspired by the national #MeToo reckoning over sexual assault and gender roles.

    “The trauma for a man that’s never had any accusation — he’s never had a bad statement about him,” Trump told reporters on Monday, sympathizing with Kavanaugh’s experience. “It’s unfair to him at this point. What his wife is going through, what his beautiful children are going through is not describable.”

    “Can we please, for the love of God, drop the painfully trite, mind-numbing cliche about ‘white men,’ as if somehow their whiteness makes evil even eviler?” Coulter wrote.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    'Eviler'? How very clunkish. You'd think ol' Ann would be betterer at this!
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    These guys are white?!!

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Kinda pink-ish, with occasional blotches.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    so says a collection of old white men...

    Please stop with your sermonizing. You're the last group that ought to be heard from on this issue. Few or none here could be heard to articulate anything whatsoever about these issues until they came up as a partisan issue with respect to Kavanaugh's nomination.

    In fact, the Bilge generally has been a den of sexism and macho male entitlement until relatively recently. Pack it in.
    And apparently racism.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Dear Dumb Ann, it's not "their whiteness (that) makes evil even eviler", it's their thorough evilness that makes their evil even eviler.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Oh, this is almost funny if it wasn't so sad!It appears that his vacation didn't teach him a thing, he starts off right from where he was forced to leave off.

    Originally Posted by Sky Blue
    so says a collection of old white men...

    Please stop with your sermonizing. You're the last group that ought to be heard from on this issue. Few or none here could be heard to articulate anything whatsoever about these issues until they came up as a partisan issue with respect to Kavanaugh's nomination.

    In fact, the Bilge generally has been a den of sexism and macho male entitlement until relatively recently. Pack it in.





  18. #18
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    My niece brought a boy up on charges two years ago. In the middle of the whole investigation, she suddenly turned 180 degrees and said it was all made up. We will never know what really happened, but the boy had a reputation long before my niece said anything. I trust her, so I am wondering who "got to her" to make the story change?

    A long time ago, I got a taste of it. I was a lanky 5'11" tall teenager with long hair. I weighed no more than 135 pounds all through HS and College. I got many a "compliment" from men who didn't realize till too late that I was a guy.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    This thread just reminded me of something that happened when my sister was about 14 or 15. A guy pulled up beside her and a friend as they were walking home. Ugly enough to have a hard time getting a root in a brothel. Offered them $10 to go watch him wank.

    I dealt with him. Found out who he was, through connections (we had his car number plate). I chased him down... which is funny in some ways, as I was riding a motorbike, with my hand in a plaster cast (threw a bad punch a few weeks earlier). Anyhow, I cornered him when he turned into a blocked street and had a bit of a discussion with him. Felt guilty for years after that. Always wondered if my discussion stopped him... or just turned into a blip along a longer path of him continuing to offend.

    Meanwhile.... my daughter recently told me some details of a serial stalker. She'd been on one date with him. He'd stalked her on and off for years. She won't let me deal with it.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    I see Mr. Holier than though, you're all jerks & I'm perfect is back.

    I wonder if he understands how pitiful he really is?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    So what are you, sky? Some sort of saint? You make me as sick as Trump does.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    are you a saint?
    Of course not. I'm more of a traditionalist, which means I don't truck with #metoo, most of which is pure bunk. Good progressives, however, don't have any choice in the matter. They're required to be woke and play along whether they believe in it, have reservations, or disagree with it entirely.

    That's the price of admission to progressive bona fides, coercive though it may be. And it will be paid. In full.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Funny, nobody's broken down my door for not paying the price you say is required. Hunhh.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Of course not. I'm more of a traditionalist, which means I don't truck with #metoo, most of which is pure bunk. Good progressives, however, don't have any choice in the matter. They're required to be woke and play along whether they believe in it, have reservations, or disagree with it entirely.

    That's the price of admission to progressive bona fides, coercive though it may be. And it will be paid. In full.
    I pray you're not married SB.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    sky, we are defined by our actions, not our inaction. Stop telling us all the things you don't do. Tell us what you do to make others safer and their lives better, or just stopping wasting electrons.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    sky, we are defined by our actions, not our inaction.
    You're quite wrong about this. In fact, when it comes to #metoo, you couldn't be more wrong. You've missed the entire point of it.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    I don't have to be defined by someone else's prejudice, SB. Though it would be stupid to imagine that none exists.

    This is something where folks who look like me can learn quite a lot about the ongoing experience of folks who don't.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    so says a collection of old white men...

    Please stop with your sermonizing. You're the last group that ought to be heard from on this issue. Few or none here could be heard to articulate anything whatsoever about these issues until they came up as a partisan issue with respect to Kavanaugh's nomination.

    In fact, the Bilge generally has been a den of sexism and macho male entitlement until relatively recently. Pack it in.
    And everyone of them displaying a level of understanding you seem to be missing.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Before I met the lady that is now my wife, I dated a girl who was raped, before I knew her. It was a devastating experience, which had long term psychological effects. She spent some time in a very good private psychological hospital which turned her back into a functioning, but changed, human being. Fortunately her parents had the means for the treatment.

    The damage done, I suspect, will be with her for the rest of her life. I wonder if she ever had a satisfactory marriage.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    You're quite wrong about this. In fact, when it comes to #metoo, you couldn't be more wrong. You've missed the entire point of it.
    There is nothing I can say to you on this forum that I want to say, but trust me, I'm thinking it.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Of course not. I'm more of a traditionalist, which means I don't truck with #metoo, most of which is pure bunk. Good progressives, however, don't have any choice in the matter. They're required to be woke and play along whether they believe in it, have reservations, or disagree with it entirely.

    That's the price of admission to progressive bona fides, coercive though it may be. And it will be paid. In full.
    How would you know ??
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    How would you know ??
    He knows just as he knows about white men, progressives, feminists, he just knows. And it’s for your good that he tells you so. He’s burdened by knowing.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    You blokes are the heroes here. It's obvious.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    No, were just capable of empathy.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Dear Dads,

    Don't feed the troll.

    One of my sisters did a great deal of damage to a would be rapist with a hockey stick when she was about 17. You did not mess with Felicity when she got her dander up.

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