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Thread: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

  1. #71
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    The main would be involuntarily scandalised, but maybe still enough to balance the stays'l or jib to get home?
    I feel anything broken with possible sharp’s flogging around at the masthead is something to be avoided at all costs.
    .
    The mast is cleaning up nicely using a small 4” finishing plane set just skimming the surface.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Hi Tom. Could you post a pic of your sail plan please? I'd be interested to compare to mine I'm drawing up. Cheers Steve

  3. #73
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    I feel anything broken with possible sharp’s flogging around at the masthead is something to be avoided at all costs.
    I agree. I see it as a false economy. What if your "cheap spar" was to rip your new sails in a breakage. Then your back to where you started and some.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Geftb View Post
    Hi Tom. Could you post a pic of your sail plan please? I'd be interested to compare to mine I'm drawing up. Cheers Steve
    Hey Steve original sail plan for WB on page one #14. Contact me if you are looking for a mast I have two leads for similar sized but lighter spars.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Geftb View Post
    Hi Tom. Could you post a pic of your sail plan please? I'd be interested to compare to mine I'm drawing up. Cheers Steve
    Hey Steve original sail plan for WB on page one #14. Contact me if you are looking for a mast I have two leads for similar sized but lighter spars.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Spent several hours had planning the mast interesting to note the heavy build up of varnish and flat areas created after years of sanding and varnishing.
    Thanks Matt for suggesting a jack plane it is a good way to get down to good wood while also controlling the round shape.

    Below we can see the old yellow varnish deep in the grain despite about three rounds with the plane.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  7. #77
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    [IMG][/IMG]

  8. #78
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    S'gonna be gorgeous.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Thanks for that Tom. I remember reading about your haul out but somehow missed the sail plan.
    I'm going to make a mast from new, I already have a good stack of Oregon. Cheers for the offer though.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Questions still pending:

    The boom is already equiped with a stainless saddle.

    What are the advantages and disadvantages to using jaws for the boom versus a rigid gooseneck?

    Since I need to maximise my main sail luff distance , is there a recommended formula for the distance between the raised gaff saddle and the bolsters holding the lower shrouds???

    I am am hoping to move the existing bolsters up the mast to just below the stay sail attachment point , giving the main sail luff maximum length required due to spar being a little shorter than the original.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    No expert here, just some thoughts
    The higher you go with your luff the more it will impeed on your gaff halyard block points. The angle might get a bit weird?
    I would sketch it all up to scale and see how it looks. I used 10mm = 1ft scale.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    If your painting the top of the mast white you could just scarf a few feet onto the top of your mast to get the original mast height then just stick to the plans.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    10 mm = 1 foot? That has to be the weirdest scale I have ever heard of. Why not 12 mm = 1 foot? (I.e., 1:25.4)

  14. #84
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    What are the advantages and disadvantages to using jaws for the boom versus a rigid gooseneck?
    Jaws are easily built without buying expensive gooseneck hardware. However, my understanding is that either you need a fairly hefty/heavy boom to prevent the jaws from climbing the mast, or else a tack downhaul. Especially when you've reefed. I like B's gooseneck because it generally gives me a solid anchor point for the tack --the point of the main from which all aspects of the sail are adjusted-- as well as specifically holding everything in the right place when sailing reefed. BUT, a lot of that is because she's a small boat with light spars, which might otherwise be a little too shifty to get a good set to the main. I'm not sure if any of that applies to WB.

    I know this is entirely a personal preference, but I also like a gooseneck because it is visually less obtrusive. Boom jaws, and the shelf around the mast upon which the boom jaws ride, always look clunky to me.

    Since I need to maximise my main sail luff distance , is there a recommended formula for the distance between the raised gaff saddle and the bolsters holding the lower shrouds?
    I don't know of such a formula, and I'm not sure it could exist, given that the distance between the gaff saddle and the shroud bolsters will change depending on how many reefs you have tied in. That said, I'd suggest that a greater concern might be positioning the bolsters high enough above the maximum height of the gaff saddle that the descending shrouds don't crowd the gaff as it swings off, when running off the wind.

    I am am hoping to move the existing bolsters up the mast to just below the stay sail attachment point...
    I don't know if this adds anything worthwhile to the conversation, but B's shrouds are at the same height as her forestay. They all stack one on top of the next --shrouds go on first, resting atop the bolsters, then the forestay seats atop the shrouds. It makes for a fairly uncluttered mast, with all the standing rig in one place, and gives the gaff enough room to swing unimpeded.

    Alex

  15. #85
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    I also need to point out this is a Couta boat rig with a Double Block run from the bronze Mast Crown for the gaff.
    As well as uppers forestay and runners.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  16. #86
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Tom, I replied to your PM then looked here. Some of it could have gone in here.

    I didn't know you already have a saddle on the boom. Why not just use that and try it?

    Having the shrouds attach at the same place as the forestay, as Alex described, makes sense from a structural perspective. Will WB's uppers be on spreaders? Where do the spreaders fit into the rest of the picture? Pixie's rig cheats a bit; there's one cross-tree fitting which holds most things; spreaders, lowers, the throat halyard.
    The inner forestay, though, is higher. It meets the mast opposite one part of the peak halyard.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by MattSplatt View Post
    Tom, I replied to your PM then looked here. Some of it could have gone in here.

    I didn't know you already have a saddle on the boom. Why not just use that and try it?

    Having the shrouds attach at the same place as the forestay, as Alex described, makes sense from a structural perspective. Will WB's uppers be on spreaders? Where do the spreaders fit into the rest of the picture? Pixie's rig cheats a bit; there's one cross-tree fitting which holds most things; spreaders, lowers, the throat halyard.
    The inner forestay, though, is higher. It meets the mast opposite one part of the peak halyard.
    I hear what you are saying Matt Perhaps I am moving too fast and may just need to slow things down .

    I will post the relevant information.

    Thank you Alex moving the bolsters up to the stay sail sounds like the way to go,and should stiffen things up as Matt pointed out.

    The Couta boats do not run spreaders and I will trust Tim Phillips opinion in not installing them.
    Interesting to note WB mast does not have spreaders also.

    I am thinking of filling these two small checks ,(notice the water damage,)in the mast with epoxy when I fill and fair several dents tomorrow before varnishing .What do you think.

    [IMG]screen shot[/IMG]
    Last edited by auscruisertom; 10-18-2018 at 04:42 AM.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by MattSplatt View Post
    Tom, I replied to your PM then looked here. Some of it could have gone in here.


    The inner forestay, though, is higher. It meets the mast opposite one part of the peak halyard.
    Thanks Matt but I think you just lost me how are you calculating that.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    Thanks Matt but I think you just lost me how are you calculating that.
    I wasn't calculating. I was describing Pixie's rig.

    Pixie's inner forestay does not meet the mast near the lowers. It's attached higher, on the same mast band that holds part of the peak halyard. Roughly halfway between the crosstree and the top. I'm not suggesting you do that, only that Pixie's is different to what you have. I think the inner forestay and the lowers together are a good idea. I think in some case the inner forestay position can be as loosely defined as "the angle that looks good". :-)

    My peak halyard is 4:1. Hauling end -> mast top -> outer gaff -> mast band mentioned above -> inner gaff -> spliced to same mast band. The inner forestay is pulling against some of the peak halyard tension, which is good. (My 'inner' and 'outer' gaff attachments are both about a third in from the ends.)

    Remember, the gaff is pressing forward awfully hard on the mast. Even more load (forestay) pulling forward there isn't necessarily good. But your aft lowers are right near there, so they should be helping.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    I am thinking of filling these two small checks ,(notice the water damage,)in the mast with epoxy when I fill and fair several dents tomorrow before varnishing .What do you think.
    Yep. Mix some of the fine dust you made today with epoxy and fill them with that.

    That mast is looking nice!

  21. #91
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    I'm not a rig designer. :-)

    I don't have any real thorough knowledge of this stuff, only what I've gleaned from gazing at it all and thinking "yeah... that makes sense to do that." :-)

    Pixie's rig wasn't just chucked together. Someone knowledgeable designed it in the late 80's. Its a good rig. I kept the geometry the same other than moving the runners way aft and changing their tensioning system.

    Wee Barkie's original rig is the same kind of beast, and some experienced people have told you it looks like a good rig. So aim to reproduce that as closely as you can and you'll have a good chance of having a pretty good rig first try. Go sailing and see if it needs any tweaks.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    I would want to scrape/cut any rotten timber that's in that split and get back to clean timber before filling it with a slither of Oregon epoxied in.
    Im not sure what to use for the staining?

  23. #93
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    These where two questions I asked Matt regarding what varnish he used and wether he preferred a rigid or a sliding gooseneck on the boom below is the PM from Matt.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  24. #94
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Geftb View Post
    If your painting the top of the mast white you could just scarf a few feet onto the top of your mast to get the original mast height then just stick to the plans.
    I did discuss scarfing a small 21” section on the bottom to replicate my original mast height but Tim Phillips advised against it. I presumed he deemed it unnecessary, as always conversations with Tim are very brief and to the point.

    Since I am essentially a gaff newbie and he is a master I mostly listen and follow instruction. Tim’s knowledge on Gaffers is not just Couta boat related he also owns and cruises and races aboard the 54’gaff rigged Storm Bay built in 1925.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    I don't ordinarily fret about mast checks such as what you show in that photo --B's mast has several very deep, very wide checks up near the hounds-- but given that the edges have gone dark, and that you already have the mast down to bare wood anyway, I would seriously consider routing out the check down to fresh wood, to make sure you remove all the potential problem, and epoxying in a long, thin dutchman. In other words, pretty much what Geftb has suggested.

    Alex

  26. #96
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Storm Bay and Jane are on the hard next to my boat. A man of few words he is. Storm Bay is an incredible vessel.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    I hear what you are saying Matt Perhaps I am moving too fast and may just need to slow things down .

    I will post the relevant information.

    Thank you Alex moving the bolsters up to the stay sail sounds like the way to go,and should stiffen things up as Matt pointed out.

    The Couta boats do not run spreaders and I will trust Tim Phillips opinion in not installing them.
    Interesting to note WB mast does not have spreaders also.

    I am thinking of filling these two small checks ,(notice the water damage,)in the mast with epoxy when I fill and fair several dents tomorrow before varnishing .What do you think.

    [IMG]screen shot[/IMG]
    In Scandnavia such checks in solid spars are, often, left open or filled with pitch in order to not create a leverage point that will split the checks open further when the wood shrinks and swells with changes in temperature and humidity.
    Jay

  28. #98
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    If I were me I'd listen to Jay.

  29. #99
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    How would you clean the check in preparation for the pitch filling Jay?

  30. #100
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    This mornings project is removing the old bolsters which apear to have been recessed into the spar with epoxy. I am hoping to flush the blue gum with the mast as a feature and anti chaff device for the gaff jaws which will be located in precisely in the same location.

    Now just wish me luck with those old bronze screws.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  31. #101
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    The masts in Scandinavia are presumably not painted with a two-pack poly like Awlwood. If you're planning to oil it or varnish it then I'd probably fill the cracks with putty or pitch or whatever. But if you don't want to revarnish or oil every 6 months then I'd fill all voids with thickened and tinted epoxy and paint it all with Awlwood.

    Rick

  32. #102
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Sounds like your having fun!!

  33. #103
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    These where two questions I asked Matt regarding what varnish he used and wether he preferred a rigid or a sliding gooseneck on the boom below is the PM from Matt.
    I make even less sense when you chop off that many of my words, Tom!

  34. #104
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Pixie's mast has a couple of checks like that. I was told to just varnish them. They aren't stained like that, though. I hadn't thought about it a great deal, but what Jay says makes sense.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Painting timber with Awlwood is a bit like wrapping it in a plastic bag. So, if you leave open cracks, varnished or not, it's going to hold water and rot. If just varnishing, which seals a lot less than Awlwood, then sure, just varnishing makes sense.

    Rick

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