A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

[MattSplatt]

Gary didn't make mine, no. I don't know who made it... in the late 80's.

[auscruisertom]

[IMG][/IMG]Just learning to turn some belaying pins at our local men’s shed. The smaller pin was my first attempt using some Aussie hardwood.

Waiting for for a quote from Evolution sails who it appears still manufacture all their own sails.

Matt unable to contact Gary .

[Phil Y]

They look grand.

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[MattSplatt]

Matt unable to contact Gary .

Peter K. probably knows what Gary's up to.

[auscruisertom]

Just comparing sail areas between Renegade or better known as Seraffyn measuring 24’ with a combined sail area of 382 sq ft. to WB at 25’ with a higher peaked gaff total sail area measurements are 400 sq ft.

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[Phil Y]

Is that the Pardys seraffyn or some other seraffyn? Pardys boat is a huge boat for 24 feet. That sail plan looks big to my eye. Tall rig with a shortish boom though, so it's a bit deceptive. For what it's worth my dad's boat was 23 feet, and her keel stepped mast I'm pretty sure was also 23 feet. High peaked gaff and no topsail. Went well.

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[auscruisertom]

Is that the Pardys seraffyn or some other seraffyn? Pardys boat is a huge boat for 24 feet. That sail plan looks big to my eye. Tall rig with a shortish boom though, so it's a bit deceptive. For what it's worth my dad's boat was 23 feet, and her keel stepped mast I'm pretty sure was also 23 feet. High peaked gaff and no topsail. Went well.

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Renegade was the first Bristol Channel Cutter design by Lyle Hess based on the later Seraffyn design which had a larger coach house giving her more interior room.

Renegade with her large rig did well racing on the California West Coast including winning two Ensenada races.

Phil Can you post a picture of your dads boat under sail? Cheers

[Geftb]

You will be doing a bit of racing in wee barkie tom?
That rig may work well. The main looks quite manageable in a cruising situation and yet you have quite a topsail for lighter airs/racing. Is your mast long enough?

[Phil Y]

Renegade was the first Bristol Channel Cutter design by Lyle Hess based on the later Seraffyn design which had a larger coach house giving her more interior room.

Renegade with her large rig did well racing on the California West Coast including winning two Ensenada races.

Phil Can you post a picture of your dads boat under sail? Cheers

Seraffyn doesn't just have a large wheelhouse, she's very beamy. Probably twice as big a boat as wee barkie. I'd be careful about putting a rig that suits seraffyn into wee barkie. Similar length but very different boat.

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[auscruisertom]

Just need to clarify I was merely comparing sail plans for two similarly sized boats. And I have decided to stay with her original rig, rather than increasing sail area .

My Wee Barkie measures LOA 25’4”” Beam 8’6” Draft 4’6” and LWL 21’8” with a lower displacement of 8360 lbs than Seraffyn and a much higher ballast ratio of around 35%.

Interesting to note Seraffyn’s modern rig sporting 456 sq ft of sail combined with a much lower ballast ratio and a 32’ mast may have had her on the tender side under full sail, also check out the very deep second reef points.


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[RFNK]

Sounds like a really good decision to me Tom!

Rick

[Geftb]

^+1
Your very fortunate to have the original gaff sail plan. I would love just a plan of my boat to help with the rig design let alone the full kit.

[auscruisertom]

^+1
Your very fortunate to have the original gaff sail plan. I would love just a plan of my boat to help with the rig design let alone the full kit.

Yes I am lucky considering I am owner no six, and to top of her builder Bruce McKay is still going strong at 90.

Just the same 43 years is a lifetime for some ,and some questions are simply lost in the realms of time . Such as the actual size of WB previous gaff sail for which I have now located another sail diagram suggesting smaller dimensions.

[auscruisertom]

Sounds like a really good decision to me Tom!

Rick

My point of view is that going with WB designed Gaff rig is probably an all around safe decision .

Also found a sail plan of Gleam in WB archives, not sure where she fits in also I also have line drawings taken of Ariel. Check out her extreme sail area for a 26 footer.

Has anyone ever heard of her

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[auscruisertom]

Still have not made a decision on which sailmaker to use primarily due to the additional cost of wanting to use tan bark sailcloth.,which will cost an additional $600 made by Gary Saxby.

Unfortunately looking at the time frame for the Vintage Regatta in the beginning of August I have to admit my window of opportunity is fast closing . Somehow I just never realised putting a gaff rig together would prove to be so difficult.

[auscruisertom]

You will be doing a bit of racing in wee barkie tom?
That rig may work well. The main looks quite manageable in a cruising situation and yet you have quite a topsail for lighter airs/racing. Is your mast long enough?

Yes I have occasionally raced WB once I found her to be a fast little cruiser.

The new Gaff mast is probably a bit short to adopt Renegade’s rig.

Sorry to miss your post Steve.

[Geftb]

its always darkest before dawn Tom. Your almost there.

[Jay Greer]

I know that you will, eventually, get it all sorted out. My one comment is that "Wee Brakie" just looks more proper with that gaff rig!

May I offer you my applause?
Jay

[Phil Y]

Tom here's a pic of my dad's boat as requested. He's experimented a bit with the rig over the years, she started out as a sloop, he tried cutter for a bit but that didn't really work very well, so back to sloop. Her secret weapon is a big lightweight reaching Genoa, almost an asymmetric spinnaker. Flies along when that comes out. She points well, but has a bit much weather helm for my liking. Big rudder. Ignore the topping lift. Dad cast me adrift in the dinghy in the Huon Channel one day a couple years ago to catch some photos, so we was sailing rings around me single handed for these. The boat is 23 feet on deck, 8 foot beam, 3'6" draft. She'll do a bit better than 6 knots at her best, usually around 3.5-4.




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[RFNK]

This shows that a gaff rig sails rings around a dinghy!

Nice!

Rick

[auscruisertom]

its always darkest before dawn Tom. Your almost there.

I hear what your saying.
We are trying to put our disrupted last week behind us as our youngest son broke his wrist playing Hockey and just finished having surgery. Typically for a 23 year old he took it in his stride being chauffeured to all his appointments including work. Friday the day after his operation he even took part in a work related outing which involved climbing Mount Warning and partying afterwards.

[auscruisertom]

I know that you will, eventually, get it all sorted out. My one comment is that "Wee Brakie" just looks more proper with that gaff rig!

May I offer you my applause?
Jay

Thanks Jay your opinion is valued.
Applause is not so thing I am used to except in circumstances where a proportionally large number of onlookers sees the stupidity of my actions ,generally this would have to be boating related.

Phil great looking boat thanks for the pictures they will help especially since you have already provided details of the throat and peak arrangements .

[Jay Greer]

Incidentally, "Renegade" and "Seraffyn" have identical hulls. Both have a beam width of 8' 1". Which is a bit beamy for a 24 footer but, they both carry their rigs well! Neither Larry or Lynn are tall or large people so, their first boat was very comfortable for them.
I do prefer the smaller deck house that was built on "Renegade" as it gives more deck space and makes the boat seem larger than she is. Of course, for Pardey's needs, the deck house on "Seraffyn" provided more room below. Both are good sailing boats.
Jay

[auscruisertom]

39160[/ATTACH]



This morning I shaped a few dead eyes out of some New Guinea Rosewood, which will have a 8 mm router grove on the outside for the Dyneema

I would prefer to go with three larger holes looking from a structural point of view.

I am not altogether sure these 22-23 mm 3/4 inch dead eyes will be strong enough . so the plan is to beef them up with another 8 mm of spotted gum ,with the grain oriented running the opposite way.

I did however load the weakest up with a come along until I broke the 8mm polyester line ,which made me feel better.

[Phil Y]

Incidentally, "Renegade" and "Seraffyn" have identical hulls. Both have a beam width of 8' 1". Which is a bit beamy for a 24 footer but, they both carry their rigs well! Neither Larry or Lynn are tall or large people so, their first boat was very comfortable for them.
I do prefer the smaller deck house that was built on "Renegade" as it gives more deck space and makes the boat seem larger than she is. Of course, for Pardey's needs, the deck house on "Seraffyn" provided more room below. Both are good sailing boats.
Jay

My dad's boat pictured above is 23 feet with 8 feet beam. Makes her a big boat for her length. Back when she was just launched we shipped her to Tonga as personal baggage (no baggage limits on cruise ships so no charge) and my dad, mum, sister and me spent 6 months sailing around the eastern Fijian islands ending up in Suva. Then shipped her home an another cruise ship.

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[auscruisertom]

Since I may actually receive my new mainsail next week it’s about time I get my head around the throat and peak halyard.

This is what I came up with today with available blocks 4 to 1 for the peak and 3 to 1 for the throat not perfect especially with two swivel double becket blocks , the swivel blocks suggested recently as not being ideal due to possible line twist.



[IMG]capital one bank near my location[/IMG]

[Phil Y]

You really, really want to have the same purchase on peak and throat. Then you can grab both and pull the gaff up horizontally to the hounds, make the throat fast then peak it up at your leisure. 3 to 1 would be plenty I think.

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[Small boats rock]

On Blow Fish I find the throat is harder to to get up than the peak, so would consider the 4:1 purchase on the throat... but having said that, my experience is limited. Only ever sailed two gaff rigs.

[Neil C]

Looks good Tom. A crane or bolster to give clearance for the throat block attachment . Don't skimp on the drift between the attachment position and the throat stirrup at full hoist. Perhaps a spot of weld ? to prevent the blocks / halyard twisting . The sheaves should be aligned athwartships.

[wizbang 13]

I agree ,an even purchase on both halyards is important for smoothness.
I think 2 to 1 with a burton on the peak hlyd would be fastest and most powerful. That's all I have on Woodwind. 2/1 with 4/1 burtons giving me 8/1 to finish up.
I have the same thing on my jib hlyd.
Too much rope all over the place will only lead to trouble.
SBR, I think there must be something screwy on Blowfish if the throat is harder to lift than the peak.
Once the throat is tied off, it should not need adjustment, whereas the peak is constantly getting tweaked, both for point of sail and wind strength.

[auscruisertom]

[QUOTE=Phil Y;5937926]You really, really want to have the same purchase on peak and throat. Then you can grab both and pull the gaff up horizontally to the hounds, make the throat fast then peak it up at your leisure. 3 to 1 would be plenty I think.
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Ok sounds like I need to eliminate the 4to 1.

Geoff your one up on me only ever had one sail on a Gaffer.

[Phil Y]

I think you'll like it. Sailing off a mooring or anchor you can haul your main up with the gaff horizontal. Tie off both halyards and at your leisure tidy up ropes, shorten up on the anchor, bring the dinghy in close, finish your cup of tea, whatever. Then haul up the anchor or let go the mooring, peak up the main and away you go. Whether you deploy the jib before or after you let go depends on your circumstances. But it's all very civilised.

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[auscruisertom]

Looks good Tom. A crane or bolster to give clearance for the throat block attachment . Don't skimp on the drift between the attachment position and the throat stirrup at full hoist. Perhaps a spot of weld ? to prevent the blocks / halyard twisting . The sheaves should be aligned athwartships.

Thanks Neil What I perceive to be the original throat halyard beak shown below was located approximately 1 m above the gaff before I moved the bolsters up on the spar.
If I where to keep the fitting where it is I would end up with clearance of 700mm between the beak and the stainless gaff Hoop is that enough given my two blocks with shackles and Hoop measure around 470 mm.

This would only leave a 200 mm or 8” inches of rope play plus depending where the gaff boom is located on the mast.
Is that enough clearance?

My present boom boom is located 900 mm or 3 ‘ foot above the deck is that perhaps high? WB original boom looks to be lower.

Furthermore my understanding is that I require around 500 mm 20” inch clearance between bolsters and gaff.
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[RFNK]

I think you made a gaff there with the number of booms Tom!

Rick

[Phil Y]

Boom boom.

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