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Thread: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

  1. #36
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Gawd ! I'm glad they didn't get in Tom, they're fast and deadly and I've seen some horrible damage caused
    WormDSCF3433.jpg
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    It looks like a well sorted rig, why do you wish to revert back to gaff?
    Just to refine my previous answer in which I did not elaborate all my feelings regarding the proposed gaff rig.

    While admittedly having limited experience and knowledge of Gaffs my opinions where gathered while cruising the Pacific. Returning from Hawai close friends Phil and Deb Jones sailing aboard Kiunga a 34 ‘steel a hard chine Gaff Ketch loaded for cruising with four souls aboard made the passage to Sitka Alaska under mostly full sail. We encountered seven deep lows one which was storm force. Phil and family had a great and reasonably fast trip lasting 27 days with their Dickinson heater keeping them warm.

    Sailing aboard our Contessa we had quite a different passage. I would hate to count all the sail changes in our 21 day Passage right down to try sail and storm jib, hove to after a knock down and on another occasion. Froze our tutsis due to the Dickenson not staying lit with the rowdy conditions and downdraft from our main sail.

    I truely believe a well designed modern gaff rig with precisely measured and cut sails rather than hand me downs will perform well enough.

    Furthermore the average traditional designed vessel will not sail within 45 degrees of the wind and sheets need to be eased especially if one is encountering adverse swell conditions.
    Analysing the above both a gaff and a traditional timber boat with rigging that is not over loaded should perform similarly to windward.
    Last edited by auscruisertom; 10-08-2018 at 08:11 PM.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    I truely believe a well designed modern gaff rig with precisely measured and cut sails rather than hand me downs will perform well enough.
    Amen.

    Alex

  4. #39
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    It will look better.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Not a good morning have just experienced a family crisis . The mast is only going as far as Woolwich Dock Sydney with no one to meet it as I am unable to travel down at this time. I’m on the phone hoping to find some kind of transport on short notice.
    Any suggestion would be appreciated.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    No suggestions --but I hope everything turns out okay with the family.

    Alex

  7. #42
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Hope things work out.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Back to the mast and a little information on the Couta boats that use them

    From around 1890 the fishing for Couta had moved offshore and the boats that evolved where decked in forward to produces dry boats in all but the roughest seas fishing out into Bass Straight .
    The boats where typically up to 26’ in length with 10’’ beam and draft of 3’3” .Built of NZ full length Kauri planks with a substantial metal CB .
    The Couta they fished grew to about 4’ and was an important food fish in Australia.

    Below is “Muriel” Tim Philips Couta boat.

    [IMG]pic upload for forum[/IMG]
    Last edited by auscruisertom; 10-10-2018 at 03:47 PM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Tim Philips has been building and restoring Couta Boats since around 1981 at which time he started The Wooden Boat Shop .He is one of the driving forces behind the Couta revival and has build or restored over one hundred boats.

    I am enclosing some of our communication and his advice regarding WB gaff conversion.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  10. #45
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    [IMG][/IMG]

  11. #46
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by auscruisertom; 10-10-2018 at 07:20 AM.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    Back to the mast and a little information on the Couta boats that use them


    The boats where typically up to 26’ in length with 10’’ beam and draft of 3’3” .Built of NZ full length Kauri planks with a substantial metal CB .


    Below is “Muriel” Tim Philips Couta boat.

    [IMG]pic upload for forum[/IMG]
    The gaff main sail shown minus some gaff length is what I will be aiming for.

    Sorry guys but It looks like the top sail won’t be happening with the Couta mast sporting around 20 degree of gaff angle.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Don't let a high-peaking gaff stop you:



    Alex

  14. #49
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    Don't let a high-peaking gaff stop you:



    Alex

    Ok ok that sounds positive.
    Do you think I will have enough mast height considering the blocks for the longer gaff will have to be located in a similar location as Muriel in #47. ?

  15. #50
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Do you think I will have enough mast height considering the blocks for the longer gaff will have to be located in a similar location as Muriel in #47. ?
    I'm not an expert, but I think the mast *height* would be fine. You'll need to consider your yard as if it's an unsupported mast above the halyard --as it will be, in essence-- and determine diameter relative to the height, working from however tall you want your yard to stand. How tall you want your yard is entirely a factor of how big a piece of wood you want up there --and, perhaps more importantly, how big a piece of wood you want swinging around as it goes up and down. That can get exciting in heavy wind.

    As for whether it'll work to put a halyard block up there, that's hard to say without a close look at the masthead. It might be fine; it might be too crowded by the existing halyards, shrouds, and stays.

    If it helps at all: B's halyard block is a cheek block screwed to the port side of the mast at the *very* top. She may have more mast between the topsail halyard block and the upper end of the peak halyard than Muriel has. For reference, looking at #48, B's peak halyard is shackled to an eyebolt at the exact same height as the jib halyard block (the jib halyard block is shackled to the eye-nut at the forward end of that eyebolt).

    To keep the yard vertical and locked in place, I bashed out this "heel-hook" fitting, which is on the port side of the mast just above the throat halyard crane (in #48, you can barely see the two throat halyard blocks visible in the gap between the topsail and the mast; the crane is, of course, just above the upper). If you follow the curve of the topping lift / lazyjack up to the mast, the upper end of it is made fast to the heel-hook, too:



    To set the topsail, the halyard is hitched around the yard (with a topsail yard hitch, of course), passes through the cheek block at the top of the mast, and descends the mast. On the way down, the fall passes through the heel-hook (as you see in this photo), then through that thimble seized to the heel of the yard.

    The same tension on the halyard that holds the yard aloft locks the heel of the yard into the heel-hook.

    The heel-hook *isn't* strictly necessary. You can rig the exact same halyard lead, with the fall of the topsail halyard passing through a thimble on the heel of the yard, and it will stabilize the yard enormously. The yard can't swing far out of vertical because the tensioned halyard works like a jackstay for the heel of the yard. I can't remember where I got the idea, but I know I didn't come up with it.

    Looking at Muriel, the only thing that makes me uncertain whether she could set a kite is imagining how the peak halyard blocks might crowd the topsail yard. Assuming you rig the topsail to set to port (as B's is), I'm uncertain whether the peak halyard blocks might chafe the yard (and sail?) when on the starboard tack. At the very least, you'd want to do as I do and make sure the shackle pins are all turned so that the sharp tabs point to stbd, away from the yard.


    Here's a technical point that you'll want to consider, since it'll make more of a difference when racing (which I don't do) than cruising (my preferred vice): with the topsail set to port, B sails noticeably closer to the wind on the port tack than on the starboard tack. This is for a couple reasons:

    1) On port tack, the topsail lies against the spans of the peak halyard and is held flatter than on the stbd tack, where the topsail bellies out away from the peak halyard.

    2) With the topsail yard offset to one side (port), the mainsail and topsail are "hinged" from the mast on different axes. On the port tack, with the gaff swung off to stbd, the distance between the yard (port side of the mast) and the peak of the gaff (where the topsail is sheeted to) is longer --thus the topsail sheet effectively tightens itself. On stbd tack, with the gaff swung to port, the distance between gaff peak and the topsail yard shortens, thus effectively slacking off the topsail sheet.

    This can be a bit frustrating, even cruising. Back when B and I raced, it was a serious annoyance. On stbd tack, the topsail "breaks" well before the main does, and she simply can't point as high on stbd as on port. I'm dead certain there must be a way to address this --I can't imagine racing boats putting up with losing a couple degrees in a beat to windward-- but I haven't yet found anyone with an offset yard topsail who can tell me their solution.

    Remember, a topsail does *not* add simplicity to your rig. I love B's, wouldn't think of getting rid of it, but not because it reduces the complexity of sailing her.

    Alex

  16. #51
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Is a windsurfer mast strong enough for a gaff Tom? I have a spare one here I found in a skip recently. It's certainly light!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Id say no.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    I'd agree that a windsurfer mast isn't strong enough for a gaff --but it might be just fine for a topsail yard.

    Alex

  19. #54
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    This quick midnight run up from Sydney had Burt Reynolds in Smokey and the Bandit written all over it.
    Did a quick 24 hour turn around while eating on the run picking up the spars at Woolwich Dock.
    It proved Challenging getting from there to the Pacific Highway with the traffic.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  20. #55
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Well done Tom .... or are you the Bandit ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  21. #56
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Well done!!


    That spar looks a bit weathered. Its not compromised I hope?
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

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  22. #57
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Well done Tom .... or are you the Bandit ?
    No but I sure felt like it since the trailer didn’t have a smart steering system . Fortunately I only encountered one pair of smokey’s stuffing their faces at Macas, and the Pacific Highway is relatively straight.

    Thanks Peter the windsurfer mast sounds like it will do the trick.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    Well done!!


    That spar looks a bit weathered. Its not compromised I hope?
    No it’s fine just saturated after driving through a large East Coast low which we are still experiencing.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Is a windsurfer mast strong enough for a gaff Tom? I have a spare one here I found in a skip recently. It's certainly light!
    What colour, Pete? Is it carbon?
    Has BigFella and SkyBlue on ignore.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    No but I sure felt like it since the trailer didn’t have a smart steering system . Fortunately I only encountered one pair of smokey’s stuffing their faces at Macas, and the Pacific Highway is relatively straight.

    Thanks Peter the windsurfer mast sounds like it will do the trick
    .
    It's here when you visit. It breaks into two but the joint could be epoxied tight.
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  26. #61
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    This morning I am taking stock and attempting to make sense of what needs to be done in order to create a fully functional Gaff rig for Wee Barkie.
    Below in the middle is Couta Boat Wanda G’s gaff which measures 18’ x3.5” which will become my new boom.I hate the idea of shortening it to WB required 16’ boom length ,or perhaps leave it as is at this time.?

    Then I have a choice of two gaffs both of which are 14’3”x2.7”.
    I am inclined to choose the lighter hollow core one on the right with the beautifully constructed leather saddle.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  27. #62
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Is a windsurfer mast strong enough for a gaff Tom? I have a spare one here I found in a skip recently. It's certainly light!
    If it's black and light, it's carbon. Strong but fragile. If it's in a skip, it might have been dropped, rendering it useless. Carbon masts won't tolerate impact. For that reason alone, I'd be reluctant to use it as a gaff. An older, fibreglass mast, might be better. Heavier but strong and not fragile.

    Rick

  28. #63
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    The idea was to use the mast as a top sail yard , however that remains to be seen since I will be running a whole lot of gear including ,uppers ,runners a forestay and a double block of the bronze mast head crown.

    After having laid 50 sqm of insulation in our **** roof cavity this morning I am planning to have a relaxing afternoon checking measurements on WB and then sanding the mast.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    What colour, Pete? Is it carbon?
    Black and carbon.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  30. #65
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    If it's black and light, it's carbon. Strong but fragile. If it's in a skip, it might have been dropped, rendering it useless. Carbon masts won't tolerate impact. For that reason alone, I'd be reluctant to use it as a gaff. An older, fibreglass mast, might be better. Heavier but strong and not fragile.

    Rick
    Why reluctant? Seems to me the worst that could happen is it might break, but it was free so it doesn't matter much, or am I missing something?

  31. #66
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    A broken gaff is a bit of a problem. So reluctance is appropriate there. A broken topsail yard isn't so bad, as long as you can get the whole mess down from there. There's a lot less strain on a topsail yard, too. Well... you'd be using a much smaller spar, too. A sailboard mast'd be about the right size, I reckon.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    I have an aluminium sailboard mast here, but I can't varnish it, so it's not going on Pixie. :-) I'm saving it for the canoe trimaran.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Damm that mast must have been build for WB so far the stay sail fits to a tee which is a great start. It also apears I have my required luff measurment of 16’ or 4.877m.

    Tim Phillips indicated I needed to move the bolsters ,I guess he must be able to work out Gaff rigs in his sleep.

    Just to be sure I am doing this right I will be moving the bolsters for the two lowers up the mast roughly 12” to just below the staysail as shown below, which seems right to me .
    Am I missing something ?

    [IMG][/IMG]

  34. #69
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    Default Re: A New Gaff Rig for Wee Barkie

    Just another perspective angle.upside down.

    [IMG][/IMG]

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