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Thread: Old but good plank ends cpes?

  1. #1
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    Default Old but good plank ends cpes?

    Many of the planks on the Ducker are not even cracked on the ends but they are pretty beat up I originally planned on soaking the ends with epoxy because almost guaranteed they will split with even the safest slightest pressure from countersink wood screws in the existing holes. just wonder what y'all gave done.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    Can you just press them into place and mark where they join the stem and transom then let them back out and glass the backside where it will be hidden in the joint?

    Of course you can, but is that something you would do?

    Also, perhaps you should consider counterboring the existing borings to the next size up and filling the new borings with wood plugs in epoxy.

    You could also fill the screw holes in the stem and transom with dowels in epoxy. Maybe drill them out to the next size up first, say 1/4".
    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 12-15-2019 at 08:34 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    20191215_211510.jpg

    Gib I was thinking a bit of glass on the backside too! Made new stems, I just want to use the existing plank holes. the only ones that split are the to top 2 or three. I don't think a little cpes will hurt in this case, it should make the plank ends more durable with less build up like thicker epoxy gives us. .
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    Just looked back at your photos. I had completely forgotten that you had that stem out, and that it's a double ender. I'm losing it.

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    Soak the plank ends with CPES and while its tacky, squeegee some thickened epoxy into the voids and holes. Ive been using the Jamestown CPES for the last year and find it as good as Smiths. You can thin it with denatured alchohol for better penetration on the first coat or two.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    CPES canít hurt , true, but CPES is not glue.
    I would use regular epoxy with very slow hardener (the longer it is wet, the longer it soaks in) .
    Overbore the holes a bit, fill em solid then carefully ream ou t the void for the screw head to prevent the splitting.
    A little bit of glass on the back sounds good, but a little bit will do little good , and you will have to compensate for the added thickness from either the stem or the plank itself.

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    CPES can’t hurt , true, but CPES is not glue.
    I would use regular epoxy with very slow hardener (the longer it is wet, the longer it soaks in) .
    Overbore the holes a bit, fill em solid then carefully ream ou t the void for the screw head to prevent the splitting.
    A little bit of glass on the back sounds good, but a little bit will do little good , and you will have to compensate for the added thickness from either the stem or the plank itself.
    ^This.
    Not a lot of point if it only soaks in a tiny distance.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    What Nick said. CPES is great stuff for reducing potential rot in a small part of the wood, but is not structural and not a glue.

    In boats with transoms the problem of old & split plank ends is sometimes solved by cutting them a bit shorter, but that's really not an option for your double-ender.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    Well it's good to see nobody's more an expert than I am! LOL
    I may try and experiment with it this week. It seems that either product would work because it is just to keep the ends stable, the penetrating epoxy should bind the molecules together deep inside,thicker epoxy would just be more on the surface, but both should be enough to keep the ends from splitting when screws are put back in. I'm finally at the point where I need to order hardware, so I can't really do too much assembly at this point. Thank you everyone!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    If you epoxy the planks into the stem rabbet they won't be able to split. You can hold them there while the glue cures with clamps.

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    I think that you would be better to replace the old countersink with a durtchman of new wood. Drill the dutchman through the same hole from the back of the plank, then countersink the dutchman for the screw head. That puts the epoxy in the middle of the plank, and if the grain of the dutchman is bot aligned with the grain of the hood end it will also resist splitting.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    ^

    Good one. Maybe even make the dutchman (men) out of 1/4" ply, or put glass under it.

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    When faced with filling a void or repairing a bad bung, I still use the system of filling them by the method that first came out with polyester resin. That is to mix red micro balloons with a hot batch of resin to make a filler patch. Polyester and micro's have a strange habit of holding on, even for repairs that will be under water, and not letting go. It is easy to sand as it matches wood in that resistance and it holds on like crazy! Often on a vertical surface a masking tape dam will need to be made to prevent running but it does work even for big dings and voids.
    Jay

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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    Gib has some darned good ideas sometimes, post #2. I would argue that gluing the planks as in post #10 might not be one of them. Unless it is. Depends on the prospect of a future rebuild. backing the plank ends with cloth sounds like a good way to beef up an old plank end in a way that doesn't show. 6 oz glass is .005 inch (0.13mm) thick, so if you don't gob on the resin, it won't get in the way too much. 6 oz also has a tensile strength around 300 pounds per inch of width, so hiding some inside the joint could be significant. If the stem surface is in bad shape, the same trick might be good there, and by temporarily fastening them with a layer of wax paper or plastic wrap could cast a perfect fit.

    CPES is a lot like lacquer. I am not convinced that it is much better, except as a primer for epoxy. Willin has a good approach in post #5

    Screw holes in existing wood such as the stem and transom are one of the few places where I would seriously consider gorilla glue. It penetrates well and while it has low strength in a loose joint, you will drill out most of the foam before you replace the screws and the foam will compress as the screw is installed just like the original wood did. The stuff builds a little pressure as it foams and can push itself into cracks around the hole. I typed this yesterday before Jay (#13) suggested epoxy thickened with phenolic micro balloons. The resin will soak into the wood and out of the mix. In this case, you will drill out most of the balloons, so they are helpinf to provide more resin without having it run out of the hole and those that are left can compress like wood as the screw is run in. Microballoon filled epoxy is stronger and harder than most woods in the cross grain direction and half as strong as wood in the grain direction, similar to plywood.
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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    If you saturate wood around a repair, especially the end grain, it prevents the epoxy from wicking out of your filler and into the wood. For screws holes, bolt holes etc., I like to use chopped glass for the filler. I use 6oz cloth and a pair of SHARP scissors to make a fine glass filler and mix it until it is stiff. The still tacky CPES makes a great bond and when cured the mix is very hard and dense.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Old but good plank ends cpes?

    This was with 5-minute epoxy it's really about the hole and the counter sink I ran three screws and none of them split the wood the only one that did split the wood was the one that ran in without drilling a hole and countersink so I think it's going to be okay with basic epoxy20191217_114629-1.jpg
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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