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Thread: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Looks like a worthy restoration project if there ever were one. Do just enough to get her in the water and enjoy her for a few years, but not too much. I think you'll eventually have your heart set on a thorough restoration, in which case you'll not want to do too much stuff twice.

    In any case, beautiful yacht.

  2. #37
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    spicewood, texas, usa
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    i love gbs and almost bought a 32 in the early 90's but my worse half back then nixed that. yours is looking better already. good luck with the repairs and please keep your updates all in one thread so we can follow along.

    jim

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    The interior looks great! I think you will really enjoy this boat.
    Enough have commented on the 5200 so I won't.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    I don't like to be the Debbie Downer. From the looks of the top, I'd be concerned about the framing. Also, 5200 doesn't compress well after it sets. When she hits the water, and the planks take up, some will split and some will crack. Be prepared with bilge pumps.
    This sig line is proudly provided by The Wooden Boat Magazine Forum. If it ain't The Wooden Boat Mag, it just a rag.

  5. #40
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Nice GB
    if she were mine, I would get her in the water and try to do as many of the repairs at the dock.
    I watched a guy down here in SC do that on a GB 42 woodie just like yours.
    Just make sure your bilge pumps and through hulls are all good (maybe replace them) and have an AC sump pump available while she is taking up, which could take a while.
    I’ve thought about the 5200 thing for my boat too after reading Don Dannenberg’s book on restoration, but kind of came to the conclusion that it would make plank replacement a real bear down the road if needed, but what’s done is done, so I wouldn’t really worry about it.
    Make the top sides look pretty, they don’t have to be perfect (your probably going to scuff them up the the first year anyhow).
    You’re lucky to have such a great boat.
    Enjoy it !!!

  6. #41
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    Jun 2018
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    Lake Odessa, Mi, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Unfortunately, in the water here is seasonal so she is waiting for next spring.

  7. #42
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Quote Originally Posted by tomtoledo View Post
    Nice GB
    if she were mine, I would get her in the water and try to do as many of the repairs at the dock.
    I watched a guy down here in SC do that on a GB 42 woodie just like yours.
    Just make sure your bilge pumps and through hulls are all good (maybe replace them) and have an AC sump pump available while she is taking up, which could take a while.
    I’ve thought about the 5200 thing for my boat too after reading Don Dannenberg’s book on restoration, but kind of came to the conclusion that it would make plank replacement a real bear down the road if needed, but what’s done is done, so I wouldn’t really worry about it.
    Make the top sides look pretty, they don’t have to be perfect (your probably going to scuff them up the the first year anyhow).
    You’re lucky to have such a great boat.
    Enjoy it !!!
    Just to avoid propagating misinformation here, Danenberg advocates 5200 as an adhesive for laying a planked bottom over a substrate of plywood (the "5200 bottom") but that technique has nothing at all in common with sealing a carvel-planked hull. Danenberg does a good job of explaining it on his website: http://www.danenbergboatworks.com/Planking.htm.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    You know what, all-though it may excite a few people I think it is time for me to speak up on the 5200 thing. It is done and I stand by it. I have made many mistakes in my 60 plus years and we will see how this plays out. Given the negative opinions I have done a lot of research. Including the Dannenberg web site and I think he may agree that this technique was appropriate for this application. You can go from one position to another throughout the web and forums and they contradict each other on what is going to occur. Some say it will fall out and other say it will rip the edges off all the planks. Some say it gets too hard and planks will crush and crack where others say it is too soft you have to have no movement. I have not heard from a nay sayer yet that has actually tried this technique so most of those opinions do not carry much weight with me. The potential problems that are laid out are the same potential failures with traditional methods except for having to cut out rotten planks. Guess what - if the plank is rotten or broken I don't care if it has to get cut out. The other day I grabbed a piece of the caulk and after a couple months of time I can still squeeze it down to nothing between my fingers. Next spring we will see how she does in the water and a year from now we will have actual data on this technique. Hopefully the difference of opinion on this subject will not stop anyone who is informed on the issues I end up having in the future.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Quote Originally Posted by jstafford View Post
    You know what, all-though it may excite a few people I think it is time for me to speak up on the 5200 thing. It is done and I stand by it. I have made many mistakes in my 60 plus years and we will see how this plays out. Given the negative opinions I have done a lot of research. Including the Dannenberg web site and I think he may agree that this technique was appropriate for this application. You can go from one position to another throughout the web and forums and they contradict each other on what is going to occur. Some say it will fall out and other say it will rip the edges off all the planks. Some say it gets too hard and planks will crush and crack where others say it is too soft you have to have no movement. I have not heard from a nay sayer yet that has actually tried this technique so most of those opinions do not carry much weight with me. The potential problems that are laid out are the same potential failures with traditional methods except for having to cut out rotten planks. Guess what - if the plank is rotten or broken I don't care if it has to get cut out. The other day I grabbed a piece of the caulk and after a couple months of time I can still squeeze it down to nothing between my fingers. Next spring we will see how she does in the water and a year from now we will have actual data on this technique. Hopefully the difference of opinion on this subject will not stop anyone who is informed on the issues I end up having in the future.
    Jstafford, to be clear I'm trying to walk the line between being a naysayer without actual experience, and wanting to make sure that other people who may be coming here get the best information they can. It might work fine in your application. It might not. But what I think we can say with some certainty is that using 5200 changes the engineering properties of the seams in ways that have not been fully tested.

    Your use of the work "caulk" to describe the 5200 illustrates, in my opinion, part of the problem with how we talk about sealing a carvel seam. Carvel seams are not "caulked" the way a tub is caulked and seam compound is not caulk. Replacing seam compound - which is NOT an adhesive and is NOT designed to keep the water out after the planks swell - with an adhesive changes things. How they change is something that I don't have the experience to determine. But I do know that traditional caulking works. Other things...might work? Might not work? Might work for a while and then stop working? Find me someone who can answer that question with certainty based on experience and I'll listen. Until then it's just an experiment. And I think the advising someone to experiment on something as critical as keeping the water out, and on a craft as complicated and expensive as a 42' Grand Banks, is criminally stupid.

    I hope for your sake that it works out fine. It probably will for the most part. Traditional wooden boats are pretty forgiving devices that way and even if there are problems they can always be fixed. But I do think the person who gave you that advice did you a disservice and I would like to avoid having someone else receive that same advice by proxy here.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    This is one of those topics that generates a lot of heat and while that can be interesting, in this case done is done. I'd sure like to see how the rest of the project unfolds.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    This is one of those topics that generates a lot of heat and while that can be interesting, in this case done is done. I'd sure like to see how the rest of the project unfolds.
    Well said Jim. Ok, I'm getting off of my soap box now. Enough said on the subject.

  12. #47
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    1,149

    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Just to be clear, many opinions expressed here are from people with vast amounts of knowledge and experience. "*have not heard from a nay sayer yet that has actually tried this technique" This isn't true.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    I do hope that jstafford is willing to stick around and keep us posted on the project, and how the hull actually performs once in the water.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  14. #49
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    Dec 2016
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    Old Greenwich, CT, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Just to chime in and say congrats on the 42 GB. One of my personal favorites and was on my personal short list before I decided on the Huckins. Please keep posting jstafford. My best suggestion is to get the boat in the water and use her as you work on her. Life is short for those of us that have 6 decades behind us!
    Simon

  15. #50
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    Jun 2018
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    Lake Odessa, Mi, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    The flybridge wings have been mounted.20180929_135720.jpg20180929_132429.jpg

  16. #51
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    Jun 2018
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    Lake Odessa, Mi, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    I have also rebuilt the area where the mast mounts.20181015_181815.jpg

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259


  18. #53
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    Old Greenwich, CT, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    You're making good progress. Yikes the house-sides look like they need some help!
    Simon

  19. #54
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    Lake Odessa, Mi, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    yes, in a few places but the bulk of it is solid. The PO got behind on his maintenance and let the water start getting in. Hopefully I can replace the bad spots and get her sealed back up.

  20. #55
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    Lake Odessa, Mi, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Now that the temperature has dropped I'm struggling with making any progress. I would rather fix an area and then move to the next. The above sports are waiting for me to finish cutting out because I can't do the steps to patch them up. Not real comfortable with tearing apart a bunch of stuff with the thought that I will fix it up in the spring. Do I tear out my windows now? Or do I wait until spring so I can work on one area at a time?

  21. #56
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    Jan 2008
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Is there a way to rig up a heater? Either electric, or maybe it has a diesel stove? Shouldn't be too hard to provide appropriate ventilation.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  22. #57
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    Jun 2018
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    Lake Odessa, Mi, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    I have a couple ways to have heat short term as in when I am there. She has 3 electric heaters that I can run off my generator, but I cannot leave my generator running when I am not at the boat. I also have some propane heaters from camping but again I'm not going to leave them running. For the epoxys or coatings to cure the temp has to stay up for ... days? That is where the problem comes in.

  23. #58
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    Jun 2018
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    Lake Odessa, Mi, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    For the patches what do I use to bond the 1/4" and 3/8" ply together to make my 5/8" thick patch?

  24. #59
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    Old Greenwich, CT, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    I would use epoxy...
    Simon

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Like a CPES?

  26. #61
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    Old Greenwich, CT, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    No not CPES - I don't think that its good as an adhesive. I would use West System or any other name brand epoxy thickened a little with wood flour or silica.
    Simon

  27. #62
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    Dec 2016
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    Old Greenwich, CT, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    the thickness of honey...
    Simon

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Quote Originally Posted by jstafford View Post
    Like a CPES?
    Not for glue. I'd use regular epoxy with colloidal silica. You want thick so it fills voids. I personally go even thicker than honey - more like cool peanut butter. This is especially important on vertical surfaces so the epoxy doesn't run out the bottom.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  29. #64
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    Old Greenwich, CT, USA
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Agree with Garret, I wasn't thinking about a vertical surface...
    Simon

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    I suggest switching to 1/2" ply. Create ship lap joints and cleats with an 1 /8" offset to mate the outer surfaces . It will be much easier in the long run with better results.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Grand Banks 42, Hull 259

    Then paint on CPES to the whole outside surface of the panel.
    (I'd cover the whole panel in CPES before installation - and possibly consider sheathing in a light fiber glass cloth too...)

    Have you had a look at where the side panels meet the deck. That'd be worth investigating. If rain is running down those walls and collecting there.
    Is it teak laid over ply? (Hopefully we don't require another 'pulling up teak over ply deck' thread..... )
    Philip K. Dick 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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