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Thread: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Another question would I be misguided to just to get one of these as apposed to individual bits of offshore foul weather gear? Obviously I will still need head, hand, and foot protection, but could I use that as a alternative to the uber expensive stuff?

    https://www.go2marine.com/product/70...it-ms2175.html

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    A bit of advice, if I may, KainKelly: Start small, build to proven plans, don't experiment until you fully understand the materials and design limitations from practical experience. To do otherwise will most likely waste a lot of time and money.

    And get sea-time. Go boating. In any sort of boat. As often as you can.
    Yes, been looking for yacht delivers to crew on in the Houston to New Orleans areas. Hopefully I will find something that will line up with school and work.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    I understand, not to sound creepy but that post made me google your name. if I may ask did you design the swaggie? That is a impressive little boat, I would have sea sickness concerns regarding traveling off shore in such a small boat. I read that it was built with the roaring 40's in mind, in a boat that small is it self righting? Really I think it is a fascinating design, not many boats that small built to sail in that rough of weather. Honestly I think it is amazing that could even be safely done.
    Yes I designed Swaggie, and there are a number of them sailing. I think though that if I were to build myself a voyager I might go up a size to Sundowner, I've sailed on the prototype and it was both steady, and comfortable. That boat is about as small as I'd want to spend months on, about the minimum for other than an extreme minimalist if one were to go away for a long time.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    Another question would I be misguided to just to get one of these as apposed to individual bits of offshore foul weather gear? Obviously I will still need head, hand, and foot protection, but could I use that as a alternative to the uber expensive stuff?

    https://www.go2marine.com/product/70...it-ms2175.html
    Foulies are very personal and what you get depends a lot on personal taste. I've found that I overheat easily (toting around ten kilos too much of me) and prefer bibs and jacket so I can shuck off a layer conveniently, but there have been night watches where I'd have loved the Mustang suit If you're starting your sailing in the Gulf, I'd see what folks there swear by. Here in the chillier Pacific NW we see everything from old fashioned oilskins to the Mustang suits.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Foulies are very personal and what you get depends a lot on personal taste. I've found that I overheat easily (toting around ten kilos too much of me) and prefer bibs and jacket so I can shuck off a layer conveniently, but there have been night watches where I'd have loved the Mustang suit If you're starting your sailing in the Gulf, I'd see what folks there swear by. Here in the chillier Pacific NW we see everything from old fashioned oilskins to the Mustang suits.
    I am thinking then I am going to for sure get the mustang suit, bare in mind I shiver when it is 60 degrees. Also I see it as buying more time for rescue should the worse happen in the event of the boat sinking.... (When in doubt, plan for the worse and pray to god for the best.) I wouldn't be surprised to see people with just plain old rain coats down here.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    I just had a millennial moment. I was trying to figure out the best way to paint a faux wood grain, onto a wooden boat..... Aside from me catching what ever has infected my generation, has anyone ever done that? I think it could look really good up close.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    What John Wellsford says about working your butt of for money to buy boat, is really the best you can do.
    In, fact, working as many jobs you can for as many hours as you find absolutely possible, is a worthwhile endeavour compared to building something innovative on your own, with limited income.

    Run of the mill boats are getting cheaper over time, so when you get down to buying one, no time or effort will have been wasted.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    What John Wellsford says about working your butt of for money to buy boat, is really the best you can do.
    In, fact, working as many jobs you can for as many hours as you find absolutely possible, is a worthwhile endeavour compared to building something innovative on your own, with limited income.

    Run of the mill boats are getting cheaper over time, so when you get down to buying one, no time or effort will have been wasted.

    This is good advice. I wasted years ripping out rotten wood and repairing boats, but it was educational and its hard to put a price on that. Im still building stuff because i want to, not because its cheaper. If you just want to go sailing, forget the building side of things, boats were not as cheap when i was in your position, but you now have that advantage of a market full of capable boats, for cents on the dollar.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    I just had a millennial moment. I was trying to figure out the best way to paint a faux wood grain, onto a wooden boat..... Aside from me catching what ever has infected my generation, has anyone ever done that? I think it could look really good up close.

    Fake is fake. It does not look really good, it looks really corny.
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 10-02-2018 at 10:40 AM.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    This is good advice. I wasted years ripping out rotten wood and repairing boats, but it was educational and its hard to put a price on that. Im still building stuff because i want to, not because its cheaper. If you just want to go sailing, forget the building side of things, boats were not as cheap when i was in your position, but you now have that advantage of a market full of capable boats, for cents on the dollar.
    Ding! Ding! Ding! that is again wonderful sage advice which the original poster carefully avoids. They deflect our collective wisdom and have a tin ear to the underlining reality. In my opinion the OP is not serious... blowing bubbles in the water in a bathtub does not make one a swimmer. Over the month of this thread - not once has they expressed any attempt to go be on a boat or to sail when they could have. They crank dreamy posts of outdated designs, rotting boats on the hard and visually attractive copper bottoms which no longer make sense. They have yet proved to have touched a hull of any boat in a yard. They haven’t choked on molded rot, wood dust and or feared the effects of leaded paint - These is are still foreign concepts as is trying to save a nice shirt sealed with drops of hardened epoxy.

    the ethics of this is either you do it or you don’t. Every time you get near a boat - there is a price of admission. To sail on one for a day is generally the price of a six pack. To own one begins at a months pay. To build one costs you 10 years and possibly a few personal relationships or amazing things you could have had or done. We live in a time of experience - how you chose to spend valuable time to be rewarded in worthwhile experience is personal. Why waste it day dreaming.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 10-02-2018 at 06:44 AM.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Ding! Ding! Ding! that is again wonderful sage advice which the original poster carefully avoids. They deflect our collective wisdom and have a tin ear to the underlining reality. In my opinion the OP is not serious... blowing bubbles in the water in a bathtub does not make one a swimmer. Over the month of this thread - not once has they expressed any attempt to go be on a boat or to sail when they could have. They crank dreamy posts of outdated designs, rotting boats on the hard and visually attractive copper bottoms which no longer make sense. They have yet proved to have touched a hull of any boat in a yard. They havenít choked on molded rot, wood dust and or feared the effects of leaded paint - These is are still foreign concepts as is trying to save a nice shirt sealed with drops of hardened epoxy.

    the ethics of this is either you do it or you donít. Every time you get near a boat - there is a price of admission. To sail on one for a day is generally the price of a six pack. To own one begins at a months pay. To build one costs you 10 years and possibly a few personal relationships or amazing things you could have had or done. We live in a time of experience - how you chose to spend valuable time to be rewarded in worthwhile experience is personal. Why waste it day dreaming.
    Yes and I am looking at boats in the 30-35ft range, please understand I really have a eye on what is for me the big prize. A 45-50ft flush deck double end pilot house cutter, I am not ignoring advice I am just working out the best way to follow through. I have found a boat in Cali I like (30ft), what I am thinking is that I will take sailing school, and see if a delivery captian will be willing to come with me to transit from Cali to Texas. I would not call it a project boat, but don't want to assume it is just ready to go. It is in the water currently, like I said just need to figure out the logistics of all this. The last thing I want to do is end up like a pair a idiots on YouTube, if I can avoid it at all costs.

    You also mentioned busting my ass at a good paying job, I have mostly got that part figured out. Just a matter of working through that plan step by step, and getting some (computer) hardware I will need for the boat. (Bare in mind I am a hacker walking around with software that can raise issues should it get out into the wild.) Further more please understand that I would rather not go into what I am doing to lock down my data on a public online fourm, in this game what you don't know will get you. (Drop a PM I will be happy to help if you have any personal IT/cyber security concerns, you all have advised me well I am eager to return the favor.)

    ~Kain Kelly

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post

    Fake is fake. It does not look really good, it looks really corny.
    Yeah, I was thinking about trying to paint planking on. That doesn't even look real.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....


  14. #84
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Wood?


  15. #85
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Not.


  16. #86
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    That mast does look good!

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    Yes and I am looking at boats in the 30-35ft range, please understand I really have a eye on what is for me the big prize. A 45-50ft flush deck double end pilot house cutter, I am not ignoring advice I am just working out the best way to follow through. I have found a boat in Cali I like (30ft), what I am thinking is that I will take sailing school, and see if a delivery captian will be willing to come with me to transit from Cali to Texas. I would not call it a project boat, but don't want to assume it is just ready to go. It is in the water currently, like I said just need to figure out the logistics of all this. The last thing I want to do is end up like a pair a idiots on YouTube, if I can avoid it at all costs.

    You also mentioned busting my ass at a good paying job, I have mostly got that part figured out. Just a matter of working through that plan step by step, and getting some (computer) hardware I will need for the boat. (Bare in mind I am a hacker walking around with software that can raise issues should it get out into the wild.) Further more please understand that I would rather not go into what I am doing to lock down my data on a public online fourm, in this game what you don't know will get you. (Drop a PM I will be happy to help if you have any personal IT/cyber security concerns, you all have advised me well I am eager to return the favor.)

    ~Kain Kelly
    What computer hardware would one need for a sail boat? a wooden sailboat? LOL!

    If you are making great money - go buy a small boat and sail it. I know hundreds of folks with great paying computer jobs sailing every weekend. I live and sail in the world capital of technology. We can always find excuses for not sailing and learning. Reading about something and putting words to electrons script doesn't make you any more ready to sail, let along repair or even on an extension build a boat. You can sideline yourself for another season or you can do it now. Many people sideline themselves until the boat infatuation passes.

    Hate to be harsh - time is fluid and fast passing. Holding out for the right time, having everything ready when you don't know if you even like it says a lot. I can not tell you how many people I know who have invested so much into their much considered boats finally go out and discover they get seasick. It is folks like me that sail it back for them, they often sell the boat in their minds before reaching back to the dock.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 10-02-2018 at 12:49 PM.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    What computer hardware would one need for a sail boat? a wooden sailboat? LOL!

    If you are making great money - go buy a small boat and sail it. I know hundreds of folks with great paying computer jobs sailing every weekend. I live and sail in the world capital of technology. We can always find excuses for not sailing and learning. Reading about something and putting words to electrons script doesn't make you any more ready to sail, let along repair or even on an extension build a boat. You can sideline yourself for another season or you can do it now. Many people sideline themselves until the boat infatuation passes.

    Hate to be harsh - time is fluid and fast passing. Holding out for the right time, having everything ready when you don't know if you even like it says a lot. I can not tell you how many people I know who have invested so much into their much considered boats finally go out and discover they get seasick. It is folks like me that sail it back for them, they often sell the boat in their minds before reaching back to the dock.
    Arnt there ways to manage sea sickness like ginger pills, lighter meals, staying hydrated, etc, etc? If nothing else, there is a finte limt to how much one can puke...

    I am wanting a eBay tough book and higher end encrypted drive. I mean it is on a boat, getting wet is a very real possibility. Looking at gulf 32's atm, they sound like good boats and looks like it is wood planked?

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    Arnt there ways to manage sea sickness like ginger pills, lighter meals, staying hydrated, etc, etc? If nothing else, there is a finte limt to how much one can puke...

    I am wanting a eBay tough book and higher end encrypted drive. I mean it is on a boat, getting wet is a very real possibility. Looking at gulf 32's atm, they sound like good boats and looks like it is wood planked?
    There it is - there is no amount of medicine that can stop seasickness. When one gets seasick - sometimes death is preferable. Anyone here will tell you that. Being incapacitated or helping someone who is incapacitated is a lousy position. You will puke until you can't. You may dehydrate and put you and your boat in jeopardy because you are in a diminished state. Those in a diminished state fall overboard, run aground, hit stuff, get more hurt and often get lost at sea. It takes a minimum of 20 minutes for anyone when you are sailing by your self. Basic seamanship will save your life. The only way you get that is by experience.

    There are no need for electronics on a boat except for a cellphone, a radio and a possibly a gps. Some chose a tracking device so loved ones and friends can locate them.

    A laptop is for spread sheets, video games, movies on youtube and business communications. All quite secondary to your newbie needs.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 10-02-2018 at 01:34 PM.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....


  21. #91
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....



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    Along with its needed effects, scopolamine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

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    Incidence Not Known


    • Blurred vision
    • chest pain or discomfort
    • difficulty with urinating
    • dilation of the pupils
    • dizziness, faintness, or lightheadedness when getting up from a lying or sitting position suddenly
    • eye pain
    • flushing or redness of the skin
    • mood or mental changes
    • muscle weakness
    • nausea or vomiting
    • rash
    • redness of the white part of the eyes
    • restlessness
    • seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not there
    • shortness of breath
    • slow or irregular heartbeat
    • sweating
    • unusual tiredness
    • unusually warm skin

    Get emergency help immediately if any of the following symptoms of overdose occur while taking scopolamine:
    Symptoms of Overdose


    • Anxiety
    • blurred or loss of vision
    • change in consciousness
    • decrease in frequency of urination
    • decrease in urine volume
    • difficulty in passing urine (dribbling)
    • disturbed color perception
    • double vision
    • dry mouth
    • dry, flushed skin
    • fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat or pulse
    • halos around lights
    • headache
    • hyperventilation
    • irritability
    • loss of consciousness
    • nervousness
    • night blindness
    • overbright appearance of lights
    • painful urination
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    • seizures
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    • unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness

    For Healthcare Professionals
    Applies to scopolamine: compounding powder, injectable solution, oral tablet, transdermal film extended release
    Cardiovascular
    Common (1% to 10%): Tachycardia
    Frequency not reported: Blood pressure decreased, flushing, bradycardia, palpitations, arrhythmias, fatal acute myocardial infarction, fatal cardiac arrest[Ref]
    Gastrointestinal
    Very common (10% or more): Dry mouth (29%)
    Frequency not reported: Vomiting[Ref]
    Nervous system
    Recurrent classic migraine attacks developed in a 20-year-old naval crew member who had been treated continuously with transdermal scopolamine for 5 months. The initial attack occurred within 24 hours of diagnosis of scopolamine intoxication. The patient had no self or family history of migraines. The attacks, presenting with prodrome and aura, followed by severe throbbing left headache, nausea, photophobia and sonophobia lasting 6 to 8 hours, recurred every 10 to 14 days for more than a year. Common triggers of migraines and other precipitating factors could not be identified in this case.[Ref]
    Very common (10% or more): Dizziness (12.4%), somnolence
    Rare (less than 0.1%): Memory impairment, disturbance in attention
    Postmarketing reports: Headache, amnesia, coordination abnormalities, speech disorder, vertigo[Ref]
    Ocular
    Very common (10% or more): Disturbances of visual accommodation (cycloplegia, including blurred vision, myopia, and mydriasis)
    Common (1% to 10%): Visual impairment, eyelid irritation
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    Frequency not reported: Photophobia, increased ocular pressure
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    Other
    Frequency not reported: Hyperthermia at high temperatures due to decreased sweating[Ref]


    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    There it is - there is no amount of medicine that can stop seasickness. When one gets seasick - sometimes death is preferable. Anyone here will tell you that. Being incapacitated or helping someone who is incapacitated is a lousy position. You will puke until you can't. You may dehydrate and put you and your boat in jeopardy because you are in a diminished state. Those in a diminished state fall overboard, run aground, hit stuff, get more hurt and often get lost at sea. It takes a minimum of 20 minutes for anyone when you are sailing by your self. Basic seamanship will save your life. The only way you get that is by experience.

    There are no need for electronics on a boat except for a cellphone, a radio and a possibly a gps. Some chose a tracking device so loved ones and friends can locate them.

    A laptop is for spread sheets, video games, movies on youtube and business communications. All quite secondary to your newbie needs.
    Or hacking, and weather faxs.... Yes I know I am getting a little ahead of myself, just wanted to get one before where ever all these used books are coming from dries up. There is a software that escapes me atm that can do alot of stuff once set up properly. GPS, Autopilot, Chart Plotter, Radar (that one suprised me.), Weather Fax, among some other things. I suspect that it will be a little odd to set up with some teething problems, but for someone like me that is just in good fun.

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    https://opencpn.org/OpenCPN/info/about.html

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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Yeah I am going to wait and make sure I have a problem before I try and take something so.... Sketchy, I don't get motion sick, but I somehow doubt that will carry over to sea sickness. Still would it be a good idea to take the nine day basic keel boat to coastal sailing over nine days, or for me to take basic keel boat get a dinghy practice on my own then go to the next level, or if it matters at all.

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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    Yeah I am going to wait and make sure I have a problem before I try and take something so.... Sketchy, I don't get motion sick, but I somehow doubt that will carry over to sea sickness. Still would it be a good idea to take the nine day basic keel boat to coastal sailing over nine days, or for me to take basic keel boat get a dinghy practice on my own then go to the next level, or if it matters at all.
    Why do you fight common sense and the encompassing nature of this recreation?

    Sailing is not like being on one's iphone. We chose going on boats IRL rather than play it out on some digital visualized construction. You spend too much time in your own world brain on your job or life that you forgot there is something more to this maritime endeavour. There is the physical factor which supersedes any digital interface. Things you can't control, things you can't manage alone, things that break, things you don't even know you need to know. Things you won't learn in a weeklong keelboat course with a totally prepped boat.

    Would it not be easier and smarter to go make friends and go sailing for a long weekend first? Sailing for most people is about learning and friendship. Even the most odd ball person can get a ride and even a position on a boat. The sea is a desert with out teachers & friends to join you and a port to sail to. If you actively chose to have no friends to sail with then Johnny Walker and Jack Daniels will likely become your life long friends while sitting in port or at anchor. And having a boat and being alone is a waste.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 10-02-2018 at 03:55 PM.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Seasickness: I get very sick - but Bonine for the first couple of days, then taper it off & I'm good to go. That being said, I've had trips where I was spitting seawater from spray mixed with puke for many hours... Those are the "What is it about this that's fun?" times.

    Electronics: Yeah, I've got 'em: GPS, Radar, VHF, Fishfinder, Inverter. iPad, cell phone & because I'm a self-employed software developer, my laptop, so I can continue to work while on the boat & therefore afford said boat. However! I have 3 compasses, paper charts (incl. appropriate tools to use 'em), binoculars, etc. - as electronics fail. Even soggy paper charts being viewed with a flashlight still work. Soggy GPS on a dead battery - not so much.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Seasickness: I get very sick - but Bonine for the first couple of days, then taper it off & I'm good to go. That being said, I've had trips where I was spitting seawater from spray mixed with puke for many hours... Those are the "What is it about this that's fun?" times.

    Electronics: Yeah, I've got 'em: GPS, Radar, VHF, Fishfinder, Inverter. iPad, cell phone & because I'm a self-employed software developer, my laptop, so I can continue to work while on the boat & therefore afford said boat. However! I have 3 compasses, paper charts (incl. appropriate tools to use 'em), binoculars, etc. - as electronics fail. Even soggy paper charts being viewed with a flashlight still work. Soggy GPS on a dead battery - not so much.
    Yeah no, never depend 100% on a electronic device. I was also going to get a good sextant. (Or is it spellex saxtent.) Does it ever come back during rough weather?

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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    Yeah no, never depend 100% on a electronic device. I was also going to get a good sextant. (Or is it spellex saxtent.) Does it ever come back during rough weather?
    A sextant is only good when at sea (I'll hear arguments on this ) as it's tough to get enough accuracy for coastal sailing. Good skill to have though. Does seasickness come back? Oh yeah - at least it does for me.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    A sextant is only good when at sea (I'll hear arguments on this ) as it's tough to get enough accuracy for coastal sailing. Good skill to have though. Does seasickness come back? Oh yeah - at least it does for me.
    Thanks for the tip, that is good information to have just in case.

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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    A sextant is only good when at sea (I'll hear arguments on this ) as it's tough to get enough accuracy for coastal sailing. Good skill to have though. Does seasickness come back? Oh yeah - at least it does for me.
    Thats why you carry 2 GPS plus a rechargeable smart phone with a GPS.

    Seasickness happens alot just when you duck below and have to do some fine eye/hand work or if you read a long text.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Thats why you carry 2 GPS plus a rechargeable smart phone with a GPS.

    Seasickness happens alot just when you duck below and have to do some fine eye/hand work or if you read a long text.
    I would also think one of those GPS's should be hand held. Fine eye/hand work like mending sails, or peeling a apple?

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    I would also think one of those GPS's should be hand held. Fine eye/hand work like mending sails, or peeling a apple?
    Absolutely.

    Still useless without a chart though...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    You do not need a good sextant. A plastic Davis is just fine .

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    You do not need a good sextant. A plastic Davis is just fine .
    Okay good to know, plus something to practice now.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Absolutely.

    Still useless without a chart though...
    As I understand chart reading is sailing 101.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    As I understand chart reading is sailing 101.
    Yep. Right after learning that (usually) the pointy end goes first. Double enders make that more complicated...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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