Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 123 ... LastLast
Results 36 to 70 of 142

Thread: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by ersin boke View Post
    Unfortunately Mr. Buehler pass away last year. I bought his book too. I sent an email to him for the Grizzly Bear project, but two days later I received a mail from his account that He is dead.

    I sent another mails to buy the plans but same mail sent automatically .

    I was dealing with Grizzly bear . All designs sems to easy to built but attractive part of this design is rig. İt is designed properly. I request from him in first mail that redesign that main sail as gaff . The orginal one was bermudan.

    The location of the mast allows big jib with boom and this is a big advantage for sailing. With gaff mainsail , the rig defined as "perfect " especially offshore sailing according to me.

    I do not know how I can reach the grizzly bear projects. Acoording to me this plan is one of the best easiy to built and seaworthy plan.

    Maybe near future , his plans start to sale by his parents.
    It is a real shame, I have always thought if he had drawn a twin leeboard 40 or so ft boat with a pilot house it would have been the ultimate cruising boat.

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    11,789

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Kainkelly -

    what have you done these past weeks to learn to sail. There are many who love the design of a thing and other to build. Until you understand the forces and concepts of actually sailing a boat in pleasant and adverse conditions, thinking about boats that work for you can be quite hollow.

    One more point - a boats worth is what you would pay for it. What other people think of your boats worth is subject to how many others are willing to take it off your hands. One off boats are the hardest to dispose of, timber boats even more so.

    When you are ready to be serious - I will help you find your boat 10x less in superior condition than you can build one new. In this changing recreational yachting world... the exodus of traditional maritime recreation is happening in a frightening rate. The resources to fix or actually build a boat is dwindling. The lone boatbuilder making a new large vessel capable of circumnavigation is quickly becoming mythology.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 09-21-2018 at 11:48 AM.
    King Moonraiser:
    A toy is never truly happy until it is loved by a child.


  3. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lynden, Wa
    Posts
    3,234

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    I suggest you connect up with the folks who put on the Texas 200, and the Port Aransas Wooden Boat Festival. A bit of a trek for you, but could be well worth the time and effort.

    http://portaransaswoodenboatfestival.org/

    Texas 200
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    26,076

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    I've debated about responding to this thread, but figured what the heck. I do not want to rain on anyone's parade & I believe dreams are one of the most important things we humans can have. However, as the owner of a 50 ft. boat (well 52 actually, but what's another 2 ft?), I have to toss out some thoughts. First let me say that I went into ownership of a boat this size with my eyes wide shut. I'd owned & sailed many smaller boats & fell in love with this one - always a mistake looking at the practical point of view. Yes, mine's a 77 year old gal, but there are many constants based on size. I'll list some of them here:

    Rigging: The standing rig for a 50' sloop costs at least double that of a 40'. Running rigging is a lot more too - as everything is not only longer, but bigger as well.
    Launching/hauling: You'll need a yard with a bigger travelift & more depth - yep they're more expensive.
    Dockage: yes, it's by the foot - but oftentimes longer slips are charged a premium - so a 50' boat is often not just 25% more than a 40'
    Moving: Most boat haulers with a 2 axle trailer won't do a boat over about 45'. A 3 axle trailer (what I have to use) is almost double the cost of the 2 axle. I just spent $850 to have the boat moved 3.5 miles.
    Everything is bigger: anchor, rode, dock lines, fenders, & most expensively, sails. Sails for a 50' boat are like the rigging - probably double that of a 40'. Engine is bigger too - so it's more expensive & uses more fuel.
    Maintenance: way more time (trust me, priming & sanding a 50' hull takes a lot of time), plus more in paint & varnish. An extra gallon of $250 bottom paint can hurt when you don't expect it. At $35/quart, topsides paint adds up too.

    I'll stop there, as I know the list is a bummer. People here have suggested that you get some sailing in. I couldn't agree more (I'd sailed for over 40 years when I bought this boat) & strongly suggest that you spend as much time on boats as you can. Learn on a small boat, sail on other people's bigger boats, crew in races - whatever. Read about boats (from Hornblower to all the people who've cruised on boats). Also - get to know some boat owners & offer to help with maintenance. Trust me, they'll jump at the chance to have someone paint the bottom/wax the hull/scrub the decks for them! Don't worry about whether the boats are wood, fiberglass, steel, or ferrocement - much boat work & maintenance is the same. Also learn electrical systems, basic electronics, and plumbing. You won't know true joy until you get to rebuild a 10 year old head...

    Do please keep the dream! Keep on looking at plans - but get the knowledge of what they mean by spending time on boats. Oh - if near any, hit boat shows - they're a great way to see a whole lot of different types of boats & see what you do & don't like. They help stoke the dream too.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Kainkelly -

    what have you done these past weeks to learn to sail. There are many who love the design of a thing and other to build. Until you understand the forces and concepts of actually sailing a boat in pleasant and adverse conditions, thinking about boats that work for you can be quite hollow.

    One more point - a boats worth is what you would pay for it. What other people think of your boats worth is subject to how many others are willing to take it off your hands. One off boats are the hardest to dispose of, timber boats even more so.

    When you are ready to be serious - I will help you find your boat 10x less in superior condition than you can build one new. In this changing recreational yachting world... the exodus of traditional maritime recreation is happening in a frightening rate. The resources to fix or actually build a boat is dwindling. The lone boatbuilder making a new large vessel capable of circumnavigation is quickly becoming mythology.
    I will take you up on that offer, sorry for late reply been busy with hacker stuff.

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    I suggest you connect up with the folks who put on the Texas 200, and the Port Aransas Wooden Boat Festival. A bit of a trek for you, but could be well worth the time and effort.

    http://portaransaswoodenboatfestival.org/

    Texas 200
    I will get there, I got school and am blasting through the book at a chapter+ a week. (Bare in mind this is IT.)

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    That is about what I thought for painting, painting a boat seems both expensive and exhausting. I (foolishly) wrote off rigging, that said I am going to look into used sails and more than likely making one. (Please understand it involves a woman.)

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    That is about what I thought for painting, painting a boat seems both expensive and exhausting. I (foolishly) wrote off rigging, that said I am going to look into used sails and more than likely making one. (Please understand it involves a woman.)

    Thank you very much for sharing your costs with me.

  9. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    45,882

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    It looks to me that a decent naval architect could redesign the rig for gaff. You'd likely go for more total sail area on a shorter mast. It might make sense to move the mast forward a bit to compensate for the smaller jib. Since you can't put a standing backstay on a gaff rig, consider having some serious rake so the weight of the mast can take some of the load until you get the running back stay set up.

    Having sailed a good deal on both Marconi and gaff rigs, I much prefer the reduced chafe, windage, and weight aloft of the Marconi. The gaff has the advantage of a lower center of effort for a given sail area and cruisers fond of the gaff often claim faster passages since one rarely makes a long upwind passage.

    Your boat, your call.

    G'luck

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    It looks to me that a decent naval architect could redesign the rig for gaff. You'd likely go for more total sail area on a shorter mast. It might make sense to move the mast forward a bit to compensate for the smaller jib. Since you can't put a standing backstay on a gaff rig, consider having some serious rake so the weight of the mast can take some of the load until you get the running back stay set up.

    Having sailed a good deal on both Marconi and gaff rigs, I much prefer the reduced chafe, windage, and weight aloft of the Marconi. The gaff has the advantage of a lower center of effort for a given sail area and cruisers fond of the gaff often claim faster passages since one rarely makes a long upwind passage.

    Your boat, your call.

    G'luck
    Thank you, do you know if a simbo like rig could be made from a Wykeham rolling reefing system for the flying jib? Obviously you would need most likely 4 or more sails for ultra low to the storm jib, then maybe use the main as a flopper stopper of sorts to prevent or at least limt roll. Then fit a self tending stay sail to the bow spirit, I was looking at the Bermuda cutter on his site. (I think that is what it is called not 110% on that.) From greatest to least flying jib, jib, stay sail. No deal breaker reason for a gaff over a marconi aside from sail availablity, and like you say the mast would require a naval architect to take a look at it. (Recently looked at the cost of sails, even if I were to make them my self. Used sail availablity is a 10/10 want.)

    ~Kain Kelly

  11. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    45,882

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    First, the clubbed staysail: Rather than mount the club on the stay, mount it to a small pedistal a bit abaft the stem. Not more than six inches back for this boat. This will allow the staysail to take a fuller shape the more you let it out, flatter as you trim.

    Goblin had a Merriman furler very like the Wykeham and I loved it. I think the second largest size should work but personally I'd go with their biggest. It's a furling system, not reefing. If you sail with it only partially rolled, you'll have a truely cruddy set and will strain damage the foot and leach at the strain point you rolled to. Jibs for this sort of furler, especially set from a bow sprit, have a lot of luff sag which the sailmaker must account for. Very hard to adapt a hanked on sail. Especially since your luff wire needs to be as hefty as the jib stay itself.

    This boat is a tough design. A main with three reefs and a jib with one ought to get through all but real transocean at the wrong time of year. Most "storm" sails, trysails and storm jibs, are so small that they don't really do much good in any normal storm except to hold you a bit still. Many year round nordic types have "winter sails", often hollow leach so no battens, and starting at an area a little less than the regular sail's first reef area. That way you can snug down to about storm trysail size but if it lightens a little you can shake the reef and move. Modern sailcloth is so strong that the old reason for storm sails is much obviated. And if you have a winter sail, it's set to the boom and sheeted better. Storm try's are miserable to sail well off the wind and don't even think about tacking.

    For normal sailing, rolling the jib is like your first reef. The first reef with full staysail. Then second reef. Then second with a reef in the staysail. Then third reef. After that, commend your soul to God.

  12. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    First, the clubbed staysail: Rather than mount the club on the stay, mount it to a small pedistal a bit abaft the stem. Not more than six inches back for this boat. This will allow the staysail to take a fuller shape the more you let it out, flatter as you trim.

    Goblin had a Merriman furler very like the Wykeham and I loved it. I think the second largest size should work but personally I'd go with their biggest. It's a furling system, not reefing. If you sail with it only partially rolled, you'll have a truely cruddy set and will strain damage the foot and leach at the strain point you rolled to. Jibs for this sort of furler, especially set from a bow sprit, have a lot of luff sag which the sailmaker must account for. Very hard to adapt a hanked on sail. Especially since your luff wire needs to be as hefty as the jib stay itself.

    This boat is a tough design. A main with three reefs and a jib with one ought to get through all but real transocean at the wrong time of year. Most "storm" sails, trysails and storm jibs, are so small that they don't really do much good in any normal storm except to hold you a bit still. Many year round nordic types have "winter sails", often hollow leach so no battens, and starting at an area a little less than the regular sail's first reef area. That way you can snug down to about storm trysail size but if it lightens a little you can shake the reef and move. Modern sailcloth is so strong that the old reason for storm sails is much obviated. And if you have a winter sail, it's set to the boom and sheeted better. Storm try's are miserable to sail well off the wind and don't even think about tacking.

    For normal sailing, rolling the jib is like your first reef. The first reef with full staysail. Then second reef. Then second with a reef in the staysail. Then third reef. After that, commend your soul to God.
    Thank you for sharing that with me, lots of useful experience there. I have read alot of your posts on a variety of things here, my friend you should write a book. Knowledge like yours once it's gone it's gone. I feel like I really have gotten somewhere to understand that without Google! (Gotta celebrate the little victories.)

    If you are in a storm that bad, would that be a good time to throw out a drouge? As I understand too much speed is what leads to pitch poling, correct?

    ~Kain Kelly

  13. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    15,396

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Find an old Westsail 32.

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    45,882

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    You'll learn more by sailing and reading.

    The classic is "Heavy Weather Sailing" by K. Adlard Coles. Many consider it a bit dated but there's much of value there, especially given the drift of the type of boat you want. Peter Bruce's "Heavy Weather Sailing" (at least seven editions so get the latest you can find) brings you more up to date but contains tactics not suitable to your boat.

    Cycling back a bit: Building a boat is a huge endeavor. I very recommend getting sailing in whatever you can afford. Small glass cruisers (under 35') litter the market as so many were built. Many are crud but there are fixable jewels out there. Or find an older and larger wooden boat. This takes care as something cheap enough to afford will have issues. You want something you can fix as you go along but that you can sail from the start. And that won't suddenly let you down. That's the approach I took and would still be doing except that I had the odd opportunity to build.

    It takes a while to learn both the sea and oneself well enough to find a right boat for you.

    G'luck

  15. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    You'll learn more by sailing and reading.

    The classic is "Heavy Weather Sailing" by K. Adlard Coles. Many consider it a bit dated but there's much of value there, especially given the drift of the type of boat you want. Peter Bruce's "Heavy Weather Sailing" (at least seven editions so get the latest you can find) brings you more up to date but contains tactics not suitable to your boat.

    Cycling back a bit: Building a boat is a huge endeavor. I very recommend getting sailing in whatever you can afford. Small glass cruisers (under 35') litter the market as so many were built. Many are crud but there are fixable jewels out there. Or find an older and larger wooden boat. This takes care as something cheap enough to afford will have issues. You want something you can fix as you go along but that you can sail from the start. And that won't suddenly let you down. That's the approach I took and would still be doing except that I had the odd opportunity to build.

    It takes a while to learn both the sea and oneself well enough to find a right boat for you.

    G'luck
    Yes I have been looking in the 28-35ft range. Haven't found anything yet, but am hopeful. I did in the 45ft range but I would really want a good looking over by a naval architect, boat would need a complete refit, and more than likely some kind of hull and deck repair.

  16. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    45,882

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Boat surveyors come in many shapes and sizes. For a wooden boat, you might do best hiring a wooden boatbuilder rather than an all purpose boat surveyor. Steel boat survey is it's own art and if you chance upon an attractively priced Gazelle or other small Colvin, that may be what you want. There are multiple ethics regarding a surveyor but since a decent survey is expensive, may involve hauling the boat and such, it might well run $2G to $5G. Not what you want to spend when tire kicking.

    My own approach is to really go over the boat. This can be an all day event. And its wonderful if after crawling around the bilges and such you can get the owner to take you out for a sail. Then you ponder and make an offer. If you agree on a price "subject to survey" you then hire a surveyor.

    There are people who use the survey to renegotiate the price. I personally don't like that. If the survey reveals something you'd not found that makes the boat unseaworthy, then it's fair to renegotiate the purchase price to account for all or some of that repair cost. But I personally don't renegotiate every dippy squat little problem the surveyor might list.

    It really helps to have a knowledgable friend and read up a bit. Maybe google around to find resources like https://www.diy-wood-boat.com/Survey.html

    G'luck

  17. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Yeah that is cheap, here is a link to one of the boats I am looking at.

    m.sailboatlistings.com/photographs/70334

    Like I said that would really need a good looking over before putting out cash, there is another one somewhere.

  18. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    Yeah that is cheap, here is a link to one of the boats I am looking at.

    m.sailboatlistings.com/photographs/70334

    Like I said that would really need a good looking over before putting out cash, there is another one somewhere.
    Also do you happen to be familiar with 70/30 copper nickle? Got a idea about the stuff like the old school copper plating welding the seams and then epoxy two half's together to create a water tight shell.

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    1,285

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Here's a report on a cupro-nickel boat that was built back in the '60s. It was expensive then and I have no idea what the relative costs would be today, but the up front costs seem to have been offset by maintenance savings over the years.
    https://www.copper.org/applications/...boat_hull.html

  20. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    1,285

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    I should have addd that there is quite a bit of info out there if you search "cupro-nickel sailboat".

  21. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Here's a report on a cupro-nickel boat that was built back in the '60s. It was expensive then and I have no idea what the relative costs would be today, but the up front costs seem to have been offset by maintenance savings over the years.
    https://www.copper.org/applications/...boat_hull.html
    Yes, but I have not found any regarding it's use as a hull plating for a wooden boat.

  22. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    1,285

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    I have seen some very old articles, but nothing recent. The article I quoted had a tab on sheathing, but I think it only applied to cladding steel and GRP boats. Another I read pointed out taht the self-adhesive sheeting seems to have largely disappeared from the market unless you want to order 4000 lbs of the stuff.

  23. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    I have seen some very old articles, but nothing recent. The article I quoted had a tab on sheathing, but I think it only applied to cladding steel and GRP boats. Another I read pointed out taht the self-adhesive sheeting seems to have largely disappeared from the market unless you want to order 4000 lbs of the stuff.
    Yes, the stuff is VERY expensive the one time I found a none repeat pricing. It is actually cheaper to flame spray a steel boat, then it is to build a entire boat or even just plate a hull over steel frames with that stuff. I am thinking if I put down a layer of coal tar epoxy to protect the wood, then epoxy and weld over that I should be good. Just don't want to burn the ply and/or glass underneath it.

    ~Kain Kelly

    Edit:
    I know it will not to much in theory due to limited air and shielding gas, yet I still want to walk with a light step.

  24. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    1,285

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    And I'd want to do a lot more reading about the electrolysis aspect, especially regarding hull fasteners and thru-hulls. Probably not something to be undertaken lightly.

  25. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    And I'd want to do a lot more reading about the electrolysis aspect, especially regarding hull fasteners and thru-hulls. Probably not something to be undertaken lightly.
    I read somewhere both bronze and brass are both okay. Have not been able to verify that, supposed to be good with most copper alloys. (Same source) If not some through hulls and PVC are no big deal at the end of the day.

    ~Kain Kelly

  26. #61
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    2,490

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    What are the chances that a tyro will find a better way to build a boat than anyone else?

  27. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    What are the chances that a tyro will find a better way to build a boat than anyone else?
    Slim to none, but that doesn't mean a DIYer can't build a good boat.

    Please say so if I miss interpreted your comment.

  28. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    593

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KainKelly View Post
    Slim to none, but that doesn't mean a DIYer can't build a good boat.

    Please say so if I miss interpreted your comment.
    You gotta start somewhere though, and with limited resources you might find it a good thing to just start with a canoe....... building a small one in either metal, composites or wood, will help in getting the feel of the material that grabs you. Then you proceed by increasing size to suit your finances etc.

    Reading up on technical info and boat handling/ sailing, is all good, if it is kept in focus...... nothing better than having a practical channel to keep direction control, and all those building skills and technical data have a firm foundation if there is a real thing in your sites.
    It all started with a hollowed log, and we now have wide choice of materials and techniques to produce something similar.
    Last edited by Lugalong; 10-01-2018 at 02:36 PM.

  29. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Pleasant Valley NS Canada
    Posts
    16,053

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    A bit of advice, if I may, KainKelly: Start small, build to proven plans, don't experiment until you fully understand the materials and design limitations from practical experience. To do otherwise will most likely waste a lot of time and money.

    And get sea-time. Go boating. In any sort of boat. As often as you can.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  30. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    On the river, Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,748

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    If you want to go sailing, work your butt off at the highest paying job you can find, save up and buy a boat thats ready to go. You'll be on the water much sooner, at a lower cost, and with the benefit of the previous owners experience. If though you want to build, work out an acceptable build time and choose a design that can be built within that time not forgetting that you have to earn enough to pay for materials and fittings as well as a place to build, and you still have to live.
    Thats not going to be a 50 ft boat. More like 25 to 30ft. A 50 footer will weigh around 20 tons, and boats cost by the ton, soak up build time by the ton, and take crew by the ton. A 28 footer for example might be 3 tons, so will likely take 1/7th the time, cost and effort to build, and still be more than adequate for a liveaboard voyager.

    Another hint, some of the build possibilities that you mention in your original post suggest that you're not experienced in the art of boat construction, so I'd very strongly suggest that you choose a design from an active designer who can be your go to resource for advice and assistance. Some of us designers are inclined to go the extra mile to see that our customers succeed in translating our drawings into their dreamboats and that, for an inexperienced builder, can be the difference between failure and success.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  31. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    15,396

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    KainKelly,
    Don't take this the wrong way either,but you sound like a very intelligent person, maybe lacking in common sense.

  32. #67
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    1,285

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Well said, Mr Welsford and MMD.

    Mr. KainKelly, I'm looking forward to seeing some blogging on sailing ventures on "The Other Guys' Boats" and enjoying your analysis of the boats, their strengths and weaknesses as they apply to your own hopes, expectations and wants. Dreaming is what keeps us going, experience is what helps us refine and direct our dreams. Experience is tough to acquire while in school and working, but the time is extremely well spent. US Sailiing catalogs many sailing classes, with the Galveston school being closest to you, I think. They offer classes in basic sailing, racing, navigation, passagemaking...pretty much anything you want. They're not cheap, but they could be a LOT less expensive than starting on a project that doesn't fit what you really want.

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    If you want to go sailing, work your butt off at the highest paying job you can find, save up and buy a boat thats ready to go. You'll be on the water much sooner, at a lower cost, and with the benefit of the previous owners experience. If though you want to build, work out an acceptable build time and choose a design that can be built within that time not forgetting that you have to earn enough to pay for materials and fittings as well as a place to build, and you still have to live.
    Thats not going to be a 50 ft boat. More like 25 to 30ft. A 50 footer will weigh around 20 tons, and boats cost by the ton, soak up build time by the ton, and take crew by the ton. A 28 footer for example might be 3 tons, so will likely take 1/7th the time, cost and effort to build, and still be more than adequate for a liveaboard voyager.

    Another hint, some of the build possibilities that you mention in your original post suggest that you're not experienced in the art of boat construction, so I'd very strongly suggest that you choose a design from an active designer who can be your go to resource for advice and assistance. Some of us designers are inclined to go the extra mile to see that our customers succeed in translating our drawings into their dreamboats and that, for an inexperienced builder, can be the difference between failure and success.

    John Welsford
    I understand, not to sound creepy but that post made me google your name. if I may ask did you design the swaggie? That is a impressive little boat, I would have sea sickness concerns regarding traveling off shore in such a small boat. I read that it was built with the roaring 40's in mind, in a boat that small is it self righting? Really I think it is a fascinating design, not many boats that small built to sail in that rough of weather. Honestly I think it is amazing that could even be safely done.

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    KainKelly,
    Don't take this the wrong way either,but you sound like a very intelligent person, maybe lacking in common sense.
    Yes, I have more than once wound up in a ass backward head scratching situation because of that.

    That said I saw a listing for a 30ft pilot house cutter online, sadly it is in Cali.

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Gilmer, Texas
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Seeking thoughts on ethics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Well said, Mr Welsford and MMD.

    Mr. KainKelly, I'm looking forward to seeing some blogging on sailing ventures on "The Other Guys' Boats" and enjoying your analysis of the boats, their strengths and weaknesses as they apply to your own hopes, expectations and wants. Dreaming is what keeps us going, experience is what helps us refine and direct our dreams. Experience is tough to acquire while in school and working, but the time is extremely well spent. US Sailiing catalogs many sailing classes, with the Galveston school being closest to you, I think. They offer classes in basic sailing, racing, navigation, passagemaking...pretty much anything you want. They're not cheap, but they could be a LOT less expensive than starting on a project that doesn't fit what you really want.
    There is a class that runs from basic keel boat all the way to coastal cruiser certification over nine days. I do have a bit of personal debate if swallowing that pill all at once is wise, or if I would be better off going in several smaller steps working on my own between them. I am not entirely sure....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •