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Thread: Always have a life preserver

  1. #1
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    Default Always have a life preserver

    It’s been several years since this happened but I’ve not shared it.

    I was on a small boat cruise in Prince William Sound for my 50th. An old boat several of you know. 3 crew and the captain. About 14 passengers. Kayaks and a Zodiac on the roof. A large salon for visiting and eating.

    Putter some place nice, go kayaking, eat a nice meal, putter, get ferried to shore and hike, putter, glacier, etc. The sun never set which was very cool.

    We pull into a nice cove and they lower the Zodiac. We are going to see a glacier. No life preservers to so I figure we are going about 35 yards to shore. Nope. The
    preservers were stored in the engine room to keep them dry. You had to request one because the engine room was off limits. I still regret not asking for one for me and my gal. It occurred to me but I didn't. I knew better.

    Off we go. Fleece, raingear, boots. 15 minutes later we are struggling up a river, a big outboard wide open. Big pieces of ice at the outlet.

    The glacier is beautiful. We hike, etc.

    Getting late. Sun is low. Getting cold. Back on the Zodiac. Captain at the tiller. About 8 people per side. Big outboard wide open. Flying down the river.

    About 35 yards before it open out to a bay, we hit a flat piece of ice. Its about 15 feet across. We catch about half of it. The Zodiac flies into the air. Fully 45 degrees. The folks on the upper tube bounce and fall towards us on the lower tube. They look like they are directly overhead. Our butts slide to the water and we lean forward but there is nothing to grab on the floor. The captain flies foward. No one has a firm purchase on anything. And we are still moving foward. It’s unclear for a moment which way things will settle.

    The port side digs in a little, the upper rail folks begin to land on the deck. I think that made the difference. The boat slaps down, right side up. The people on the upper rail end up on the floorboard and our knees....all in a tangle towards the front. . Embarrased, the captain waits a moment to see if we are losing air, we regain our positions, then we continue.

    It was not discussed afterwards. We were about 50 yards from shore and 35 yards from the bay. As wide as the river was, and as fast as it was running, and as cold as the glacial runnoff was....it could have been very bad. I still wonder if we could have made it to shore with or without a preserver. With a preserver there was a chance to exit the river mouth, get out of the current, and make for shore.

    The captain did jokingly refer to it as the euthanasia tour and said all out names were written into the log book in pencil just in case. Alaska is a fun place. I’m looking forward to visiting again.
    Last edited by bluedog225; 09-13-2018 at 06:49 PM. Reason: Edits for clarity and accuracy

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Did you consider pressing charges? Seems like criminal negligence to me.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    So many violations of both law and good sense here, starting with locating PFDs in a place inaccessible in emergency. To start, there ought to be enough Type I PFD's for all crew and passengers located, as per law, where they can be accessed in emergency. Given the sporting nature of the trips, there should also be a Type III issued to every person getting into an inflatable, kayak, or anything.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    I don't disagree. Some clarification, the engine room door was towards the stern and kept open. Just off limits. Pretty small boat. Though I think it would have been a bit dicey if we started sinking. Passed regular coast guard inspection for passenger service though.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Speed kills, it's that simple.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Slightly better assuming the engine room's not on fire. Still, were this my operation, everyone would wear a Type III for any water born adventure off the mother ship.

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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Excellent point.

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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Did you consider pressing charges? Seems like criminal negligence to me.
    We were all fine. So no harm. If we had all drowned, he would have had some splaining to do.

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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    I agree with Ian regarding the type III PFDs, but how was it legal to have everyone aboard the Zodiac without PFDs? And while I understand why you might not want to disclose the name of the boat (although I can guess), I hope that you would at least provide feedback to the captain regarding the problem in the hope that it might save the next shore expedition. Oh, and the joke was not funny. At all.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Another point - riding on the tubes? At any speed an issue. Wide open just nuts. If you look at the units actually designed to carry this many, they have seats.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Hard to say which part of the story is more or most haywire, but what you don't want to hear from the captain (or any expedition/outdoor guide) is ...... " trust in the lord"

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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    What is this the old farts convention? No one died
    whatever rocks your boat

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    To often the lack of concern (and utter stupidity) for the safety of others is on display. When people die suddenly it is never accidental, it is always due to human causes.
    Last edited by navydog; 09-13-2018 at 03:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    There is a lot of strange in this story. Including: "The sun never set which was very cool."

    I lived in south central Alaska (that includes all of Prince William Sound) for 37 years and the sun always set every day of the year. Including solstice.

    There are a lot of crazy independent types in Alaska. Many ought to have no contact with other humans. I think the captain of this vessel is one of them.

    Jeff



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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Odd. I recall watching the sun approach the horizon and start rising again from Anchorage. Maybe memory fails me. Anyway it stayed light, which was cool. . Couldn't really see the horizon when on the boat.

    Captain was a nice and conscientious guy. We just both made a mistake that day. I still feel strange about it.

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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Overheard a briefing on a whitewater raft guide training session in NZ a couple of years ago. The instructor was telling a story of a larger passenger falling on a smaller passenger in some white water. Broke the smaller passengers back. I'd have thought should definitely be wearing a PFD and helmet going WOT upma river filled with obstacles. You weren't to know what was going down until you got there. The skipper on the other hand is criminally stupid. It's a hard thing to do but it's one of those occasions where you or any other passenger could have said Stop! This is not safe.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Odd. I recall watching the sun approach the horizon and start rising again from Anchorage. Maybe memory fails me. Anyway it stayed light, which was cool. . Couldn't really see the horizon when on the boat.

    Captain was a nice and conscientious guy. We just both made a mistake that day. I still feel strange about it.
    See I'd disagree with that. Vehemently. The captain was negligent. You did nothing wrong. Yes, you could have insisted on a PFD even though no one else was doing so and despite the assumption created by the crew that a PFD was unnecessary (otherwise why put the burden on the passengers to ask for one?), but you should never have been put in the position of needing to make that decision. What about the passenger with less experience on the water who would have no way to know whether to request one? Or who would feel like asking for one would single them out? And why was the Zodiac being operated in such a way as to endanger the passengers in the first place? Did the person at the helm have enough experience to know that hidden ice was a risk? If not, why not? And if they did then why were they operating it at an unsafe speed?

    I'm all for personal responsibility and making one's own decisions about these things, but the captain and crew are ultimately responsible for the safety of the ship and its passengers and there is no question in my mind that they were derelict in that duty, judging from the events as you related them. If an airplane crashes because of wing icing no one asks whether the passengers insisted on proper deicing procedures. If a train derails, no one asks the passengers if they were watching the speed entering the curve. Why should the passengers of this vessel take on a greater burden?

    Oh, and "no one died" is not a valid argument. That was luck, not skill or planning.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    It does depend on the water you're on. As was noted in the last PFD thread, the chance of drowning is actually very small. In the UK, there are 64,000 people keen enough to go sailing each week, and just two sailors drowned last year. Bizarely, more cyclists drowned than sailors, perhaps because of the canal-side cycle paths. A staggering 106 people drowned when walking or running. In Australia something like 380,000 people go sailing, and last year there was about one drowning death that a lifejacket was likely to have prevented.

    Just throwing some rough numbers around, it appear that an Australian sailor's chance of drowning when it would have been avoided by a PFD is only 25% higher than their chance of dying in the bathtub. I'm about one thousand times more likely to die of cancer than by going sailing and drowning when it could have been avoided by a PFD.

    One interesting statistic from the USA that I saw recently but cannot find now indicates that a very high proportion of boaters drowned at the dock. That means that if it's logical to always wear a PFD when underway, it's probably just as logical to wear one when you're tied up. So if you should wear a PFD while puttering along on a calm day, you should wear one when entertaining guests to dinner in the cockpit at the marina, too.

    Sure, in Alaskan waters things are different. But in more temperate climes surely the risk should be seen in perspective. Our overall chances of dying by drowning are so small that we should arguably pay more attention to other safety-related issues.

  19. #19
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    Pretty hard to put an argument that PFDs should not be mandatory on a powerboat taking a bunch of day trippers white water white knuckle thrashing up melting glacier. In fact I'd be suggesting immersion suits.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Pretty hard to put an argument that PFDs should not be mandatory on a powerboat taking a bunch of day trippers white water white knuckle thrashing up melting glacier. In fact I'd be suggesting immersion suits.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Agreed, PFD would have made finding the bodies easier in glacial runoff but hypothermia would surely have been fatal ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Pretty hard to put an argument that PFDs should not be mandatory on a powerboat taking a bunch of day trippers white water white knuckle thrashing up melting glacier. In fact I'd be suggesting immersion suits.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    In that scenario, yes. Although one wonders whether they would just have made the difference between people dying of hypothermia and people dying from drowning.

    Google brings up several pieces from scientists who state that studies show that as few as three five-minute immersions in cold water can make a big (ie 50%) difference in your shock response, that the effect of these can last for 14 months, and that they can save your life. So perhaps there should be an emphasis on boaters getting into cold water? It's not hard to see that cold water adaptation could be much more useful than wearing a PFD - especially since according to at least one piece, if you're going to wear a PFD while underway then it's only logical to wear one while sitting in the cockpit at the marina since the chances of needing it in both situations are similar. It's hard to imagine people wearing a PFD on a summer's day in the dock, but if the possibility of "needing" it in that situation is about as high as the probability of "needing" it while underway how can one realistically argue against it?






    Last edited by Chris249; 09-14-2018 at 06:44 AM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Were I live now cold water is a rarity but as a teenager down South I can remember swimming for hours in 16C water 60F and coming out cold but fine. I did it regularly but really can't imagine doing it now as an older adult.

    To our US readers, is 60F water dangerous or just mild for you?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    One can play with stats all one wants. It's a matter of plain US law that any vessel must have a Type I or Type II PFD for every person aboard. A Type III that is being worn, not just aboard, can sub in.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Anyone unfamiliar with hypothermia in cold water should examine the linked chart and look at survival times.
    https://useakayak.org/references/hypothermia_table.html

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Thanks Navydog, from that I'll assume my teenage body was used to the exposure because according to that I should have been dead.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    In that scenario, yes. Although one wonders whether they would just have made the difference b ................. - especially since according to at least one piece, if you're going to wear a PFD while underway then it's only logical to wear one while sitting in the cockpit at the marina since the chances of needing it in both situations are similar.
    I beg to differ, as the overall statistical figures do not relate to the statistical risk distribution. The risk of falling overboard and drowning while having coffee at the marina is lower than the risk of the same happening while sailing in chop and a force 6 blow and decidedly lower than such happening while going full throttle in an RIB on a glacier-fed river. One should base one's decision as to when to wear a PFD on the respective risk situation. That is also my argument against a rigid law enforcement of PFD use under all conditions and in all situations. For instance: why should I wear a PFD walking on the same jetty that I am going to jump off in half an hour's time to go swimming? Do I have to wear it until the moment I jump off the jetty (or off my boat, for that)?
    Constant PFD use is not mandatory in Germany and I wonder whether there are accident statistics allowing a comparison to states where it is enforced. It would be difficult because you'd have to take into consideration the total number of persons involved, the usual weather and water conditions in the respective states and what the role of the accident victims were (actively engaged in sports, professional dock workers or seamen or just passengers etc.).
    Underway in the Mirror, I always wear one, not necessarily for safety reasons, but because the dinghy vest cushions my back when I have to sit on the cockpit floor to remain on an even keel. In other words, I need it most when there is virtually no wind at all! The risk factor is not drowning, but a bruising of my back.
    In as far as the original post by bluedog225 is concerned : you were all lucky and I believe if we (at least in my age group) are honest, we'll all remember one or two boating incidents which can be looked back on with an odd feeling.
    My Sea Scout days in the Caribbean would make any safety-conscious mariner's hair stand on end. Looking back on it, I don't understand why my old man (who had a master's ticket) did not intervene at the time. We usually set off without PFDs, some couldn't swim very well. The oars, if any, were often in terrible condition. Our Scoutmasters were more worried about us attending Catholic mass every Sunday morning than about the outboard engine conking out in the tidal races of the Bocas and us ending up out on the open ocean. All the same, no one drowned and I enjoyed the times.


    I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks than in the drink with my boat on the rocks!

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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Three different questions here:

    1. Should the Zodiac have had PFDs for all passengers aboard as a matter of law and safe practice? No question that the answer is yes, and that the crew was negligent in not doing so.

    2. Did the occasion warrant the active use of PFDs, not just availability? I would argue yes simply because almost any situation with that water and boat which would require a PFD would not give the passengers enough time to find and don one. We can debate the nuances of hypothermia and statistics all we want but there is absolutely no situation in this scenario in which it would not be better to be wearing a PFD. Sure we can all imagine circumstances in which a PFD would not help much but that's like saying I'm not going to have a fire extinguisher aboard because it won't do any good if the fuel tank explodes.

    3. Did the OP have any responsibility to speak up and request a PFD? No. Unequivocally. And the proof of that is right in the original post: "I still regret not asking for one for me and my gal. It occurred to me but I didn't. I knew better." If the OP should have taken responsibility for requesting a PFD, why should his partner not have had exactly the same responsibility? And every other passenger on that Zodiac?

    All this is not to say that the OP shouldn't have asked for PFDs for himself and his partner. Frankly he should have insisted that PFDs be issued to everyone before setting out. But that does not excuse the negligence of the crew in a) creating a situation in which the passengers would have to go against the presumed expertise of the crew to access a PFD b) not following both law and safe practice in carrying PFDs aboard the Zodiac, c) not ensuring that all passengers were wearing PFDs aboard a vessel had no deck, enclosure, railing or other structure providing some barrier to prevent passengers from falling overboard and d) not exercising good judgement in operation of the Zodiac.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Besides performing the task of keeping one's body afloat, the act of donning a pfd raises one's awareness regarding the nature of the marine activity. Wearing it is a constant reminder to exercise caution and to avoid having to actually use it.

    Jeff

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    The OP's story is not really about whether wearing a pfd was required or if it would have saved anyone involved in the incident. We all know it was required. If all the occupants in the boat ended up in the water maybe half would have survived wearing or not wearing a pfd. The operators would be negligent perhaps criminally. Obviously the boat was being operated at unsafe speeds for the conditions.

    What this incident demonstrates is the random difference between life and death that occurs constantly. A slight change in the physics of the incident and everyone is in the water. What we call accidents are unpredictable and that is why pfd, fire extinguishers, seat belts and all other safety equipment are necessities.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by 62816inBerlin View Post
    I beg to differ, as the overall statistical figures do not relate to the statistical risk distribution. The risk of falling overboard and drowning while having coffee at the marina is lower than the risk of the same happening while sailing in chop and a force 6 blow and decidedly lower than such happening while going full throttle in an RIB on a glacier-fed river. One should base one's decision as to when to wear a PFD on the respective risk situation. That is also my argument against a rigid law enforcement of PFD use under all conditions and in all situations. For instance: why should I wear a PFD walking on the same jetty that I am going to jump off in half an hour's time to go swimming? Do I have to wear it until the moment I jump off the jetty (or off my boat, for that)?
    Constant PFD use is not mandatory in Germany and I wonder whether there are accident statistics allowing a comparison to states where it is enforced. It would be difficult because you'd have to take into consideration the total number of persons involved, the usual weather and water conditions in the respective states and what the role of the accident victims were (actively engaged in sports, professional dock workers or seamen or just passengers etc.).
    Underway in the Mirror, I always wear one, not necessarily for safety reasons, but because the dinghy vest cushions my back when I have to sit on the cockpit floor to remain on an even keel. In other words, I need it most when there is virtually no wind at all! The risk factor is not drowning, but a bruising of my back.
    In as far as the original post by bluedog225 is concerned : you were all lucky and I believe if we (at least in my age group) are honest, we'll all remember one or two boating incidents which can be looked back on with an odd feeling.
    My Sea Scout days in the Caribbean would make any safety-conscious mariner's hair stand on end. Looking back on it, I don't understand why my old man (who had a master's ticket) did not intervene at the time. We usually set off without PFDs, some couldn't swim very well. The oars, if any, were often in terrible condition. Our Scoutmasters were more worried about us attending Catholic mass every Sunday morning than about the outboard engine conking out in the tidal races of the Bocas and us ending up out on the open ocean. All the same, no one drowned and I enjoyed the times.


    I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks than in the drink with my boat on the rocks!
    I agree the stats aren't complete, but by the same token some of those who argue for more use of PFDs use the same sort of incomplete or misleading stats. For example, in Australia they refer to sailors who drown without wearing PFDs, but I know that a significant number of people who were recorded in such stats would not have been saved if they wore PFDs. One of them, I believe, was crushed between the boat and a rock before drowning. Another suffered severe injuries because of their safety harness and would not have survived the internal injuries anyway. Others were down below when their boats capsized. In that situation, wearing a PFD is highly unlikely to save you and could perhaps hinder you from swimming out through the companionway as some have done. I know of one sailor who was dragged down with a sinking boat by his safety harness. However, it appears that incidents such as those are counted in the stats as 'drownings without PFDs' as if the fact that they had no PFD was relevant.

    Yes, the chance of going overboard is higher in a F6 or when going at speed through ice, but there are many calls for people to wear PFDs all the time, even when they are motoring in dead calm conditions in midsummer in a warm-water area, 50 metres from a sandy beach and with a full crew aboard and a sugar scoop stern they can use.

    Let's say that the 64,000 Brits who sail twice a month spend an average of 1 hour sailing per week. If they are average in their other habits, they also spend about one hour walking per week. On average it seems that about two of those 64,000 keen sailors may drown while sailing*. However, using US figures it appears that out of that population about 1.5 may die as pedestrians. So for the typical British sailor, being killed while walking is about as likely as drowning. So why should there be so much emphasis on wearing safety equipment while doing one activity, and no emphasis on using safety equipment when doing the other?

    If, as the rough stats appear to show, someone like a keen British sailor is as likely to die per hour of walking as per hour of sailing, why should they wear PFDs but not helmets while walking? If wearing protective gear against one risk is seen as silly, why is it seen as logical to wear protective gear against a risk of similar size?

    I know the figures are rubbery, but they still seem to indicate that (1) the chance of drowning is very, very, very low and (2) we do other activities of similar low risk without wearing protective gear. And finally, there are "revenge effects" that many of those who promote full-time PFD use do not consider. For example, if you haven't practised getting back aboard your boat by yourself, your PFD may do nothing to save you. Why promote PFD use while so often ignoring other issues such as practising recovery, wearing wetsuits or dry suits, or other boating-related and health-related issues?



    * I'm making the assumption that both the British sailors who drown on average are among the 64,000 who sail twice a month. They could well be among the many more who sail regularly. I'm using US pedestrian figures since they are easy to find.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Three different questions here:

    1. Should the Zodiac have had PFDs for all passengers aboard as a matter of law and safe practice? No question that the answer is yes, and that the crew was negligent in not doing so.

    2. Did the occasion warrant the active use of PFDs, not just availability? I would argue yes simply because almost any situation with that water and boat which would require a PFD would not give the passengers enough time to find and don one. We can debate the nuances of hypothermia and statistics all we want but there is absolutely no situation in this scenario in which it would not be better to be wearing a PFD. Sure we can all imagine circumstances in which a PFD would not help much but that's like saying I'm not going to have a fire extinguisher aboard because it won't do any good if the fuel tank explodes.

    3. Did the OP have any responsibility to speak up and request a PFD? No. Unequivocally. And the proof of that is right in the original post: "I still regret not asking for one for me and my gal. It occurred to me but I didn't. I knew better." If the OP should have taken responsibility for requesting a PFD, why should his partner not have had exactly the same responsibility? And every other passenger on that Zodiac?

    All this is not to say that the OP shouldn't have asked for PFDs for himself and his partner. Frankly he should have insisted that PFDs be issued to everyone before setting out. But that does not excuse the negligence of the crew in a) creating a situation in which the passengers would have to go against the presumed expertise of the crew to access a PFD b) not following both law and safe practice in carrying PFDs aboard the Zodiac, c) not ensuring that all passengers were wearing PFDs aboard a vessel had no deck, enclosure, railing or other structure providing some barrier to prevent passengers from falling overboard and d) not exercising good judgement in operation of the Zodiac.

    This is is pretty much how I see it.


    We have several deaths a year here where someone goes in the water and never comes up again. It’s not drowning that’s the problem, it’s the cold shock.
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    We have several deaths a year here where someone goes in the water and never comes up again. It’s not drowning that’s the problem, it’s the cold shock.
    Which suggests that dressing for immersion with gear that will keep you warm and dry is more important than having a PFD.

    Tom
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Which suggests that dressing for immersion with gear that will keep you warm and dry is more important than having a PFD.

    Tom
    Actually no. I think you are confusing cold shock with hypothermia. Cold shock is an involuntary physical response to sudden cold water immersion that forces you to take a breath. At which point it's game over unless you have supplemental floatation to bring you to the surface where you might have a chance. Short of a dry suit I don't think there is any amount of clothing that could reliably prevent cold shock.

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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    And you often see folks wearing dry suits, mostly in skiffs.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
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    Default Re: Always have a life preserver

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Actually no. I think you are confusing cold shock with hypothermia. Cold shock is an involuntary physical response to sudden cold water immersion that forces you to take a breath. At which point it's game over unless you have supplemental floatation to bring you to the surface where you might have a chance. Short of a dry suit I don't think there is any amount of clothing that could reliably prevent cold shock.
    Actually, no. I'm not confusing anything. A drysuit with fleece underneath was exactly what I had in mind. That's what "dress for immersion" means:

    Keep in mind cold shock can be the forerunner to hypothermia. If a person is immersed in water that is 55 degrees F. or colder the likelihood of experiencing the symptoms of cold shock is highly probable if they are not wearing protective clothing. Jeans and a t-shirt are not protective clothing. Wetsuits or drysuits are considered protective clothing. Some drownings have been contributed to the initial gasping and/or hyperventilation one experiences when suddenly immersed in cold water (cold shock). An excellent article on cold shock can be found in Sea Kayaker MagazineSpring 1991 (Volume 7, Number 4) "Cold Shock" by Moulton Avery.

    When dressing for immersion you need to consider the initial exposure and long term exposure. If you wish to reduce the immediate effects of cold shock, I recommend you cover a good portion of your body with some form of protective clothing. Your goal is to reduce the shock of the cold water on your exposed skin. There is no exact formula for how much skin to cover but I can safely say the colder the water the more skin you should cover.
    SOURCE

    Otherwise, as you say, even a PFD could well prove to be useless other than for body recovery. Especially since cold shock, besides the involuntary inhalation, can also trigger an instant cardiac arrest because rapid vasoconstriction forces the heart to suddenly work much harder to force blood through the body.

    I have a fair amount of cool to cold water swimming experience, and have a great respect for cold water.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

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