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Thread: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

  1. #1
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    Default Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    I'm restoring an 18' lapstrake double ender and would like your opinion on whether to use silicon bronze ring shank nails or square cut nails from Faering Design to attach the sheer plank to the inwhale. This boat was built in 1969 in Norway, and at that time they used square cut nails, but was wondering if the ring shank would be better.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Quote Originally Posted by tomwil View Post
    I'm restoring an 18' lapstrake double ender and would like your opinion on whether to use silicon bronze ring shank nails or square cut nails from Faering Design to attach the sheer plank to the inwhale. This boat was built in 1969 in Norway, and at that time they used square cut nails, but was wondering if the ring shank would be better.
    You can increase the grip of square boat nails by twisting them.
    Ring barb nails are OK if you hate the person who may have to repair the shear/inwale after you.
    They are an absolute PITA to take out.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Even worse than Nick's comment is if you are unlucky enough to bend a ring shank nail prior to fully driving it home!! They are very nasty to remove! Squre cut nails are a safer choice. If possible they can be clinched or riveted over a copper rove or washer and offer a very strong joining. If roves are used, they should be finished with a dapping die to smooth over the edges of the peen.
    Jay

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Between the two I would also go square cut.

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Between the 2 I'd go for copper clinch nails.

    Otherwise I'd just glue it. Are you replacing it because water trapped between the layers rotted the rail and the top edge of the plank?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    Between the 2 I'd go for copper clinch nails.

    Otherwise I'd just glue it. Are you replacing it because water trapped between the layers rotted the rail and the top edge of the plank?
    Hey guys thanks for all the info. The tapping die sounds like a good trick to smooth the rivets. Found this boat a few years ago, but now that I'm retired I can finally get around to fixing it. You can look at the boat on a previous thread, (Snekker Find). I will probably use a combination of rivets and square nails. I didn't want to use all rivets because I think it would look too much. Will use rivets where the ribs line up, and nails in between. Will have to counter sink in order to attach my rub rail, For my rub rail I have 1" by 1 3/4" by 20' piece of ipe wood. I know this is very stiff but hard wood, and will have to steam it to get it to bend around the shear strake. I will probably attach it the same way, and maybe bung it so no fasteners show. Don't know yet. All suggestions are very welcome. And yes , the rails and the shear plank were rotted. Will show you more pictures when I get a chance.

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    " And yes , the rails and the shear plank were rotted."

    That's one of the reasons I bed everything in either Sika 291 or epoxy. Just a hint.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    For my rub rail I have 1" by 1 3/4" by 20' piece of ipe wood. I know this is very stiff but hard wood, and will have to steam it to get it to bend around the shear strake.
    Yumpin' Yehosephat! That'll be a job! Does ipé even take to steaming? Does it bend at all? Be sure to post photos --or even better, video, so we can enjoy your, ahem, vocabulary.

    That said, I'll second what Nick said about ring nails. Only use them if you preemptively hate the next guy to work on the boat.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Square copper nails riveted over copper roves looks best, and is strongest.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Ok I have steamed the Ipe "outwales", and they don't take to steaming that well. My question now is when is it too much pressure put on clamping these to the shear plank. As you can see in my pictures that I have done it, but it wasn't easy, and the ipe wood didn't break but there is still a lot of pressure. Should I use
    another wood, one that will easily bend around or is this OK? And could someone please post how to attach pictures. I've been trying for an hour or more.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Quote Originally Posted by tomwil View Post
    Ok I have steamed the Ipe "outwales", and they don't take to steaming that well. My question now is when is it too much pressure put on clamping these to the shear plank. As you can see in my pictures that I have done it, but it wasn't easy, and the ipe wood didn't break but there is still a lot of pressure. Should I use
    another wood, one that will easily bend around or is this OK? And could someone please post how to attach pictures. I've been trying for an hour or more.
    Use another wood.
    Ipe will make a good keel shoe, but it does not bend. https://www.wood-database.com/ipe/
    Workability: Overall, Ipe is a difficult wood to work, being extremely hard and dense, with high cutting resistance during sawing. Ipe also has a pronounced blunting effect on cutting edges. The wood generally planes smoothly, but the grain can tearout on interlocked areas. Also, Ipe can be difficult to glue properly, and surface preparation prior to gluing is recommended.
    Comments:
    Ipe is a wood of extremes: extremely dense and durable, as well as extremely difficult to work. Its incredible hardness and strength make it well suited for flooring applications,
    It is the poor man's Lignum Vitae.
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    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Thanks Nick

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale


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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    All I see is the attachment numbers.
    Just a guess, but your files may be too big to post. Next thing would be to try posting just one at a time.
    Next would be to edit them down to a smaller size.

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale


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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    DSCN0780.jpgHere's another one. As you can see I did manage to bend this wood around, but ther is still a lot of pressure outward. Also the sheer towards both ends swoop upwards a few feet from the ends and then down towards the stem. I can't get the ipe to bend this way.

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Well, you say you can't, but it looks like you did.

    I can't make sense out of the photos though. Did you bend all of that new unfinished wood in one piece? It looks like the forward port side has 1/2" clamped to the rest of the new wood, but the clamp pads are just barely on it. How did you do that?

    Anyway, that much IPE bent on edge like that will break your leg if it pops loose. If you can keep it there until you get a well fastened breast hook in place you should be OK.

    I would have laid it up out of layers of 3/8" in epoxy.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    Looking at it some more. Perhaps you tapered the ends of some 1" by 1 3/4 inch and bent it on the flat over an existing inwale? That doesn't look like 1 3/4 though, and it still doesn't explain the clamps.

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    The outwale is 1' x 1 1/2". You can't see this because the bottom is camphered so as not to look so robust. I won't be able to get it to bend down towards the stem any more and that is why it sticks up a good 1/2" at the ends. If this would be OK to attach this piece with this much outward pressure I would shave off the top 1/2" making it slimmer on each end. And as you saw I did get it to bend, but will this pressure release over time? DSCN0786.jpg

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    I think that if you shave off the top edge of that ipé, it'll give your sheerline a very peculiar (and not very attractive) appearance. Others here may think otherwise, though.

    There's a reason you don't see ipé used anywhere that wood needs to bend. It's great stuff in the right place, but it's not a nice wood to work with around curves.

    I can't get the ipe to bend this way.
    I can't freakin' believe you got it to bend at all. I'm curious what you find when you put a tape measure on the hull, and how much the hull flexed to meet the rails. You might want to check that before you start fastening that ipé down. And whatever size fasteners you were thinking to use, go up a size. Gib is right: that SOB will break your leg if it pops loose.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    OK guys, thanks for all the info. and opinions. It is very helpful. Have decided to look for other woods. White oak or ash maybe. Any suggestions on other types and where to get it. I live in Staten Island NY area and everything is kiln dried and no longer than 16'. Would be willing to travel a couple hours, and my truck can handle 20' lengths.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Fastening sheer plank to inwhale

    I have white oak rubrails and toerails on Bucephalus, and I love them for durability and appearance --BUT, white oak moves a lot when the humidity changes, so they can be challenging to keep up. B's are finished bright, too, and anywhere that water got under the varnish (such as at joints where it has cracked when the wood swells and shrinks) the oak has gone black. It hasn't ruined her looks over the last 32 years, but only because I'm a serious nitpick about taking care of my varnish.

    Ash is wonderful wood to work, and loves to bend, and I think it's gorgeous. I used it pretty much exclusively to build my Fliptail 7 folding dinghy with bent laminated and varnished rails --BUT, it will rot fast if it soaks in fresh water, so you'll need to be scrupulous about bedding rubrails to the hull, to make sure fresh water can't get in there and hide.

    And that's pretty much the sum total of my knowledge of those woods as regards their use for rubrails. If you're asking for my two cents, either one would be a lot less of a fight than ipé. I've heard there's currently a glut of ash on the market, so if price is a factor, you might let that influence your decision.

    I still can't believe you got that ipé to bend as much as you did...

    Alex

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