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Thread: Do we still need that militia?

  1. #1
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    Default Do we still need that militia?

    We need to have an honest conversation about guns in America, and it needs to begin with what the 2nd Amendment actually says as to why it was written.

    "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    The question needed to be asked: Do we still need that well-regulaed militia?


    Today, when we think of a militia, we think of armed citizens determined to protect us FROM the government. But this is what Art. 1, section 8, of the constitution says about that militia: It was an arm OF the government.

    "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"


    I submit that once we had National Guard. Police, and standing armies, the militia was no longer needed, and the 2nd amendment should have been deemed as moot as the 3rd, and I'll wage most who read this have to look that up.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Stop making sense.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Truth is not the truth.
    Crimes are not crimes.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  3. #3
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    2 nd Amendment is like yr appendix.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    feel free to get rid of your militia. i'll keep mine for awhile.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    feel free to get rid of your militia. i'll keep mine for awhile.
    pretty sure your militia won’t last 2 seconds against the well regulated National Guard.

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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    pretty sure your militia won’t last 2 seconds against the well regulated National Guard.


    thanks for the assessment, i'll keep it just the same though.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    thanks for the assessment, i'll keep it just the same though.
    Do you practice with your militia?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Do you practice with your militia?

    of course. even have a special trip planned to hit up the 1,000 yard range in a few weeks. it'll be fun, you should go.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    One of the contradictions in The Constitution is the tension between the 2nd Amendment and the provision for forming a standing army. Many of the folk at the Constitutional Convention were profoundly against a standing army. For example:
    In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.
    ~ James Madison

    The original provision to fund a standing army was to be limited to not more than two years. The militia was always available for duty in emergencies.

    The militia originally was intended to be an enforcing part of the federal government:

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for
    governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United
    States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers,
    and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline
    prescribed by Congress...
    U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 8

    Nowadays, most pro-2nd-Amendment people define "militia" along these lines:

    "A volunteer, non-government (*NOT* anti-government) force of citizens organized to protect their families, property, and community."

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    feel free to get rid of your militia. i'll keep mine for awhile.
    You miss the point. What you think of as a definition of 'militia' is not the one referenced in the 2nd amendment or in the body of the constitution.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    It is a bunch of hoplophiles playing army. And nursing fantasies of violently over-throwing the Federal government.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Truth is not the truth.
    Crimes are not crimes.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  12. #12
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    I would also point out that the word 'own' does not appear in the 2nd Amendment. Nor does the word 'gun' "keep" does not mean 'own'. It seems pretty clear, in context, that those in the militia got to keep whatever 'arms' (which included more than guns) the government provided.

    In today's world 'arms' include nuclear weapons. Something to think about.

    ALL THAT SAID. there is nothing anywhere in the constitution that prohibits you from owning any arms, or anything that would prohibit the government from regulating the ownership of arms.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    It is a bunch of hoplophiles playing army. And nursing fantasies of violently over-throwing the Federal government.
    Really? I grew up with WW2, Korean war, and Vietnam vets in the house, all of who had seen active duty.

    My father had reached officer status by the time he was discharged after the (WW2) war. Do you think he forgot his training or, responsibilities after the fact? To the contrary, it was instead, harder to make him quit, from the way he made his bed, kept his clothes/shoes, tools, cars and guns maintained. Not to mention what manners and respects he somehow effortlessly commanded from his sons and peers, just from the way he carried himself.


    Everywhere I tend to look, there are experienced veterans. One friend I have recently gained, did a couple tours in Afghanistan. He's shot/shrapnel'd up a bit, but the Wounded Warriors organization has managed to bring him back to some sense of normalcy. He went back the 2nd time because he could not stand the thought of leaving his team there with someone else. He has no inclinations of overthrowing the Fed.

    Weird that the amount of military influence that resides in just the GP alone, manages to get overlooked with the idea of a citizen based militia. How can you forget all of these people, along with their experience? We likely have more active military/tech experience in our population than any country on the planet. You may forget it but, I can guarantee you that any military strategist, foreign or otherwise, would have to deeply consider this before ever trying anything in the way of occupation, at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipefitter View Post
    Really? I grew up with WW2, Korean war, and Vietnam vets in the house, all of who had seen active duty.



    My father had reached officer status by the time he was discharged after the (WW2) war. Do you think he forgot his training or, responsibilities after the fact? To the contrary, it was instead, harder to make him quit, from the way he made his bed, kept his clothes/shoes, tools, cars and guns maintained. Not to mention what manners and respects he somehow effortlessly commanded from his sons and peers, just from the way he carried himself.





    Everywhere I tend to look, there are experienced veterans. One friend I have recently gained, did a couple tours in Afghanistan. He's shot/shrapnel'd up a bit, but the Wounded Warriors organization has managed to bring him back to some sense of normalcy. He went back the 2nd time because he could not stand the thought of leaving his team there with someone else. He has no inclinations of overthrowing the Fed.



    Weird that the amount of military influence that resides in just the GP alone, manages to get overlooked with the idea of a citizen based militia. How can you forget all of these people, along with their experience? We likely have more active military/tech experience in our population than any country on the planet. You may forget it but, I can guarantee you that any military strategist, foreign or otherwise, would have to deeply consider this before ever trying anything in the way of occupation, at least.


    Your experience mirrors mine, Pipefitter.


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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    of course. even have a special trip planned to hit up the 1,000 yard range in a few weeks. it'll be fun, you should go.
    Your militia shoots at targets? That sounds like target practice.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Your militia shoots at targets? That sounds like target practice.


    stupid post is stupid.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    The honest conversation you suggest would mean the participants would be willing to have their minds changed

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Take a day or two and read this John. Maybe it will clear up some issues for you:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...GijIM-qCAy-HvV
    I read the constitution. I find it quite clear. Only those who want it to say something it does not say find it unclear.

    The question asked in this thread is, "Do we still need the militia referenced in the 2nd Amendment?" If your answer is 'no', then the 2nd Amendment is moot. If it is "yes", then it is the government's responsibility to supply you with your guns.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    stupid post is stupid.
    target practice doesn’t make you part of a well regulated militia so don’t make facile allusions to that point.

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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    china, india, russia all far outpace with regards to retired military numbers



    when has invasion or occupation of the u.s. mainland ever been a viable threat? 1812? 1862?
    I thought I saw some big artillery sites near Seattle. I didn’t think they were that old. Sorta looked like WW2 stuff.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    I like cartoons too.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    target practice doesnít make you part of a well regulated militia so donít make facile allusions to that point.
    What do you think the Army, Navy and Marines, and Air Force trainees practice shooting at?

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
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    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

    Ithaka, by Cavafy
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpiefan View Post
    What do you think the Army, Navy and Marines, and Air Force trainees practice shooting at?

    exactly. which is why that post was just stupid. i guess they think the army practices shooting at live minority groups

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpiefan View Post
    What do you think the Army, Navy and Marines, and Air Force trainees practice shooting at?
    they develop other necessary skills that in conjunction with shooting accurately make for a military force.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    exactly. which is why that post was just stupid. i guess they think the army practices shooting at live minority groups
    We had to re-qualify with rifle/ pistol every year of active service these were target ranges, There was also specialized weapons training, Combat ranges that used live fire to simulate combat. there was over 20 of these sites at Pendleton alone. These ranges had villages, cityscapes, woodland, desert and beach flavors. They were designed to teach how to control your emotions while in a combat situation.

    They were live fire with tactical problems injected to sharpen skills like proper target identification, fire safety and discipline etc. I was a forward Air observer, "Tactical air control" My main weapon was a radio connected to several air assets, rotary and fixed wing.

    Even as communications I had to do all the weapons training as well, I carried an M16 and a 1911 45 as TO weapons with the radio.

    I went to specialized training for the air support part. We trained year-round unless in a combat zone.
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    exactly. which is why that post was just stupid. i guess they think the army practices shooting at live minority groups
    Alan does your militia do that thing where you crawl through the mud under barbed wire while your 'comrades' shoot live ammunition over your shoulders? that's like hardcore **** man. is your militia hardcore?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    alan, does anybody in your militia have a confederate battle flag bumper sticker or tattoo?

    honest question bro
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    1000 yards? You're hamburger, dude. "Pink mist" we call it.

    You're out ranged by a factor of 16x. 30mm high explosive - think "hand grenades ". At 600/min. And that's just the LITTLE stuff.

    Yeah, WOW, 1000 yards! Bring it, militia boy. LMAO

    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    And if you're worried about being occupied, Putin has you by the gronicles and you're cheering him on.

    Sweet Mother of God reds are Stupid.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    hahahha, yall some stupid sometimes.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Now you're into Dunning-Kruger territory.

    LMAO
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    "The original provision to fund a standing army was to be limited to not more than two years."

    So if that's the reason for your 2nd, the answer is obvious, disband the standing military forces. The Militia is there to step in………..

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    Alan, is your militia all white? all male?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Do we still need that militia?

    do y'all wear beret's by chance? what color?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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