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Thread: Ship Modeling Tools

  1. #1
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    Default Ship Modeling Tools

    Just stumbled across Micro Mark and their line of tools for model ship building. https://www.micromark.com/mini-hand-...modelers-tools

    Miniature rope walk anyone? Teensy-tiny planking clamps? Electric plank benders?

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Wa-ay too many cool toys on that website.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    There is no end to wonderment in that catalog!
    Jay

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    I've been given some wooden ship models kits and have been checking out MicroMark tools, pity shipping from the US is so expensive.
    Last edited by geoff_s; 09-04-2018 at 06:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Oh no...and this with winter coming on!

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff_s View Post
    I've been given some wooden ship models kits and have been checking out MicroMark tools, pity shipping from the US is so expensive.
    A small plane, sharp chisels, a dovetail saw and a jewellers piercing saw forms my basic tool kit. Planks are bent with a kettle and gas hob.
    Those were enough to build this from scratch
    GEDC0008.jpg
    The timber was converted on a band-saw, before being planed to thickness.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Nice Nick!

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Ah yes, Micro-Mark (https://www.micromark.com/?ns_md=cpc...ns_cn=WK_Brand) and ModelExpo (https://modelexpo-online.com/Model-Tools) are most entertaining catalogs. That said, "buyer beware," for much of their stuff is of questionable quality and generally overpriced for what it is. If you subscribe to their email feeds, you'll find a lot of very good deals when they have big sales. Their customer service is also quite good. (It has to be with as much Chinese product as they sell.) In many instances, you will find much higher quality tools (many of the same design made in USA or Europe and not the Chinese pirated stuff) in the large commercial jewelry supply catalogs and medical instrument supply houses.

    The best source of information for modeling tools, indeed, for all things ship modeling, is the Nautical Research Guild's Model Ship World forum. (https://modelshipworld.com/) They have a separate topic on "Modeling Tools and Workshop Equipment." (https://modelshipworld.com/index.php...hop-equipment/) Many of the guys in there are highly experienced amateurs and some are professionals and their input on tools and sources is invaluable. This is a great forum with lots of pictures of incredible modeling jobs. It's also international, so there is lots of information on British, European, and Australian products and sourcing, if you aren't in the US or Canada.

    As for precision modeling power tools, there are two levels of product. Micro-Mark features many (overpriced) machines that are geared for the hobbyist trade and are several notches down in power and precision accuracy from what the serious amateurs and professionals are using. (Sort of like the tools offered by the WoodenBoat Store catalog... God bless 'em.) The really serious modeling tools are essentially custom-made, although they are surprisingly not much more expensive than the hobbyist-level stuff. From the "good stuff" you can reliably expect accuracy in the range of .0005", which is the land in which good models live. These bespoke modeling tools are generally made by individual craftsmen with one or two employees at most, working out of small shops. Three remarkably good examples are Byrnes Model Machines (http://www.byrnesmodelmachines.com/index5.html), Syren Ship Models (https://www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com/), and Vanda-Lay Industries (http://vanda-layindustries.com/) Check out their websites if you are wearing a tie you don't mind drooling on!

    I was recently lucky to be able to buy a Jim Byrnes' table saw, thickness sander, and disk sander, a Vanda-Lay drill press, and a Sakura scroll saw (hi-end Japanese,) from a fellow modeler who was selling off his shop due to health reasons. It was a considerable outlay for tools I'd lusted after for a long time, but in "like new" condition and at less than half the retail price, it was an offer I couldn't refuse. The Jim Byrnes machines are beyond dispute the finest of their kind in the world. Now all I need is the time to play with them!











    Nobody "needs" these tools to build model ships, but they pay for themselves quickly when used to mill your own wood. If you think full-sized boatbuilding wood is expensive, just take a look at the prices for milled scale lumber! They also provide a degree of accuracy that is extremely hard to match using hand tools at that scale, which may be counterintuitive to a full-size boatbuilder where power tools are often less accurate than hand tools. (Note the .001" micrometer fence adjustment on the Byrnes table saw!) And besides, "He who dies with the most tools, wins!)
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 09-04-2018 at 06:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    I haven't built seriously for some time but am about to (Jolie Brise sailing model) In the past dressmakers brass pins, a violinmakers plane, small clamps, clothes pegs, sand bags and heaps of custom jigs were the mainstay. I do have a Jewlers lathe but that was most useful scratch building Rail models. The comment re scale lumber is relevant but given the scale of production understandable. I have now a stock of delaminated ply sheets that given care produce quite reasonable planks with a good box cutter.

    Some of my bigger sailing models way back were built from wooden printers spacing strips, called 'reglets' and available in 3'x1/2"x 3/32 and 6/32 thickness.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Suitable timbers for model building seem to be in short supply here, not to mention the cost. I'd like to try to mill my own from local timbers.
    Last edited by geoff_s; 09-04-2018 at 09:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I haven't built seriously for some time but am about to (Jolie Brise sailing model) In the past dressmakers brass pins, a violinmakers plane, small clamps, clothes pegs, sand bags and heaps of custom jigs were the mainstay. I do have a Jewlers lathe but that was most useful scratch building Rail models. The comment re scale lumber is relevant but given the scale of production understandable. I have now a stock of delaminated ply sheets that given care produce quite reasonable planks with a good box cutter.

    Some of my bigger sailing models way back were built from wooden printers spacing strips, called 'reglets' and available in 3'x1/2"x 3/32 and 6/32 thickness.
    I also took a hiatus from model building for several years a while back, only to discover it had become way more sophisticated than I had ever expected. Now, modelers are using CNC laser cutters and micro-machining equipment. It's hard to believe what they accomplish. The internally-stropped boxwood blocks below, laser cut, are 3/16" from top to bottom (not sheave diameter!)


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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    I wouldn't even try to emulate that Bob, and anyway sailing models are a different matter. You can't use paper and card stock for one thing. Water and wind are not to scale and the boat gets carried about in the back of a car. I had once a stock of ebony rod that I made my blocks from. All gone or misplaced now.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I wouldn't even try to emulate that Bob, and anyway sailing models are a different matter. You can't use paper and card stock for one thing. Water and wind are not to scale and the boat gets carried about in the back of a car. I had once a stock of ebony rod that I made my blocks from. All gone or misplaced now.
    Tell me about it! it's amazing how many people think the models can sail the same way as the prototypes. I have a couple of friends who have gotten into radio controlled 12 meter yachts. They are built for scale racing and they are very cool. They really sail like the full-sized boats.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    At a local WB show I saw a RC schooner, about 5' long being sailed by a boy about 12 'match racing' with a full sized crewed yacht in a very restricted area between two piers. Both parties knew the racing rules and complied exactly. Quite fascinating to watch.
    At something around 6ft the models begin to act as a full sized dinghy would.

    BTW, these are 6 footers, open dinghies being raced on Sydney Harbour around 1900
    18

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    I picked up offsets from the "Lily" a 16 foot coble deteriorating on the quayside and after re-lofting built this model using ordinary everyday tools prior to building full size.
    I had no need to resort to steaming on either of the projects. Circa 1963

    Last edited by Chippie; 09-05-2018 at 05:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff_s View Post
    Suitable timbers for model building seem to be in short supply here, not to mention the cost. I'd like to try to mill my own from local timbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    GEDC0008.jpg
    The timber was converted on a band-saw, before being planed to thickness.
    Most of the timber was milled from a failed apple tree grubbed out of our garden, the sheer strakes, gunwales, and rubbing streaks were made from oak when the apple ran out.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    That's a lovely model, Chippie. It's good to see you finally post a photo, I expect great things.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    A small plane, sharp chisels, a dovetail saw and a jewellers piercing saw forms my basic tool kit. Planks are bent with a kettle and gas hob.
    Those were enough to build this from scratch
    GEDC0008.jpg
    The timber was converted on a band-saw, before being planed to thickness.

    I appreciate the lines of these local craft Nick they seem to be born of the sea with their beautiful lines and proportions.

    I find my eyesight and patience prevents me now, especially fitting the sawn timbers.

    I was rummaging about recently, and came across a smaller one I was making and abandoned, oh perhaps 40yrs ago and promised myself I would finish it.

    Don't suppose I ever will though.

    If I could find out how to send Photo's I'd post a picture.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post

    If I could find out how to send Photo's I'd post a picture.
    Some printers also photocopy and scan. If yours will scan your photos, you can now post from your computer.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Jim I " grabbed" that picture from a previous post already on the forum.

    I haven't as yet found a way to supplant Photobucket. How comes it is still on I hear you ask, I don't bloody know.

    Still it's not of much consequence as I am about goosed.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Beautiful lines on your model, Chippie. You might want to share the offsets with the forum if you are so inclined. That's a boat that looks like it's worth building full-size.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Most of the timber was milled from a failed apple tree grubbed out of our garden, the sheer strakes, gunwales, and rubbing streaks were made from oak when the apple ran out.
    It's the same in the US. The decent modeling woods were always in short supply. (Balsa is not a serious modeling wood. Too weak, too soft, too "fuzzy" and difficult to get and keep a sharp edge on it, particularly on small bits.) Boxwood and even substitutes like Castello are difficult to obtain due to export restrictions and when it is available the price will definitely make your grommet pucker. Fruitwoods are very difficult to find commercially in scale lumber form. Your best bet is to find a neighbor who want's an old apple tree removed from their garden. You really do have to mill your own "exotics" for modeling it seems. The common stuff that remains is still amazingly expensive and often not consistently dimensioned, so it seems more and more serious modelers have gone to milling their own. The town "slash pile" is often a good hunting ground if they'll let you, as many do. Bring your chain saw and pick over what the city parks crews have cut. Sometimes somebody gets really lucky and finds a lifetime supply of something like holly or persimmon and so on. You often have to fight the bowl turners for it.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Some of us got lucky and inherited a basement's stash of wood and tools when an older ship modeler retired or passed away. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my dozen 2" x 4" x 24" pieces of basswood At least I got some nice cherry and boxwood with it.

    Harvey

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Jim I " grabbed" that picture from a previous post already on the forum.

    I haven't as yet found a way to supplant Photobucket. How comes it is still on I hear you ask, I don't bloody know.

    Still it's not of much consequence as I am about goosed.
    Photobucket learned a valuable lesson and has now reinstated access to previous users.
    However if you can save the image to your own computer you can now upload from there.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by capnharv View Post
    Some of us got lucky and inherited a basement's stash of wood and tools when an older ship modeler retired or passed away. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my dozen 2" x 4" x 24" pieces of basswood At least I got some nice cherry and boxwood with it.

    Harvey
    Basswood is used by modellers for spars, so is good for anything requiring dowels.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    how's butternut for models?

    fell into a lifetime supply of large, clear, kiln dried stock here
    https://www.wood-database.com/butternut/
    Carves well, but too much grain for bright finished models, may be OK for painted work.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    how's butternut for models?

    fell into a lifetime supply of large, clear, kiln dried stock here
    It's too coarse for most modeling, Paul. It used to be a common wood for boat interiors, as it's a handsome wood yet light and easily worked. Make some cabinets out of it.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    Beautiful lines on your model, Chippie. You might want to share the offsets with the forum if you are so inclined. That's a boat that looks like it's worth building full-size.
    Bob you must have missed 15# "

    I picked up offsets from the "Lily" a 16 foot coble deteriorating on the quayside and after re-lofting built this model using ordinary everyday tools
    prior to building full size.
    I had no need to resort to steaming on either of the projects. Circa 1963"

    The offsets have proved elusive, Nick asked me if I had them on his East Coast Coble thread if I recall correctly.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...t-Coast-Coble/

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post

    The offsets have proved elusive, Nick asked me if I had them on his East Coast Coble thread if I recall correctly.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...t-Coast-Coble/
    Unfortunately that thread is now broken. However I was trying to establish scantilings, offsetts are not a problem.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Unfortunately that thread is now broken. However I was trying to establish scantilings, offsetts are not a problem.
    ??

    Just "grabbed" this from that Thread.




    Not me or mine.


    Andrew I believe?
    Last edited by Chippie; 09-07-2018 at 03:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    01-26-2013, 02:13 PM
    #80

    01-26-2013, 02:13 PM
    #80

    Peerie Maa
    Old Grey Inquisitive One


    Join Date Oct 2008 Location Walney, near Cumbria UK Posts 40,432


    Re: Building a coble


    Originally Posted by Chippie
    I used that ploy to warn anyone contemplating building a working boat not to be tempted to raise the freeboard too much, especially in the WORKING AREAS. Professional builders often fall into that trap. After picking up offsets of an 18 foot sailing coble, and fairing I discovered that the height I arrived at was a mere 21 ” from ram plank (keel) to gunwhales. Needless to say I rode back and checked my offsets. There is a reason for this, and to others contemplating a tunnel, don’t.




    Encouraging. Knock off 2" or so for the floors and 3/4 for the bottom boards and we are within spitting distance of each other.
    Do you still have those offsetts? It would be good to draw them out as there are so few recorded examples of the old sailing cobles.

    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    There you go Nick.


    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-a-coble/page3
    Last edited by Chippie; 09-07-2018 at 03:33 AM.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    01-26-2013, 02:13 PM
    #80

    01-26-2013, 02:13 PM
    #80

    Peerie Maa
    Old Grey Inquisitive One


    Join Date Oct 2008 Location Walney, near Cumbria UK Posts 40,432


    Re: Building a coble


    Originally Posted by Chippie
    I used that ploy to warn anyone contemplating building a working boat not to be tempted to raise the freeboard too much, especially in the WORKING AREAS. Professional builders often fall into that trap. After picking up offsets of an 18 foot sailing coble, and fairing I discovered that the height I arrived at was a mere 21 ” from ram plank (keel) to gunwhales. Needless to say I rode back and checked my offsets. There is a reason for this, and to others contemplating a tunnel, don’t.




    Encouraging. Knock off 2" or so for the floors and 3/4 for the bottom boards and we are within spitting distance of each other.
    Do you still have those offsetts? It would be good to draw them out as there are so few recorded examples of the old sailing cobles.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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    There you go Nick.


    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-a-coble/page3
    Ahh, the other thread.

    Did you keep the offsetts?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  33. #33
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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Here is a model of our H28 "Bright Star" that was made by my father in law Commodore Richard Lawrence. He used a lot of the tools that are supplied by Micro Mark in his work. Dick really enjoyed making models of famous boats and his collection contains nearly twenty models of museum quality. The Commodore passed on at the beginning of this summer, he was 93 years old and had a good life sailing boats and making models of them. Jay

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Unfortunately that thread is now broken. However I was trying to establish scantilings, offsetts are not a problem.
    Nick stop dancing about.

    I reluctantly have to say that if the offsets and the fairing of them presents no problem in my opinion the transferring of them and building into a tangible object is lamentable.

    The shape you produce is a long way from the aesthetically pleasing lines of what I call a Coble.

    Sorry.

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    Default Re: Ship Modeling Tools



    In profile no contrasting in strake widths all running smoothly and evenly throughout.

    A pronounced "plunge" at Forefoot followed by a nice even raked curve to top of Stem.

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