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Thread: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

  1. #561
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    The world would be a better place without such a thing as insurance.

  2. #562
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    Default

    Indeed. A lot of very bad law results from their involvement.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  3. #563
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    i got a letter the other day from Maritime, thanking me for keeping my mooring in such good condition.
    I could pull that out for the insurance company i suppose

    Except i think i threw it away....
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  4. #564
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Ive forgotten, same crowd who forced you to get back onto your mooring pronto, launching in a storm and crashing into a pylon as a result?

  5. #565
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Yep!
    Them!
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  6. #566
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Righty - Now where was I?
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  7. #567
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Good question!
    Rick

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  8. #568
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Oh yeah - in a boatyard.....

    IMG_6874.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:14 AM.
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  9. #569
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Sheathing?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  10. #570
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    What's the abrasive? Soda, glass, sand ...?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  11. #571
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    having survived the wilds of Callala Bay which is notorious for its southerly exposure - unusually we got belted by a furious Easterly on the 9th of Feb.
    There's a bit of fetch into Callala Bay and it created a steep and rapid chop.
    The severity of the trashing ripped by deck fitting off and then my secondary deck fitting and finally the pulpit to which i had hitched the excess mooring line. Somewhere in all that it settled backwards and played with my neighbours boat for a while. This did a fairly impressive amount of damage to my stern, twisting and tearing the push-pit apart, mangling the wind-vane steering system and generally thrashing the deck and smashing the transom. While simultaneously, thankfully, doing little damage to my neighbours boat - except he needed a replacement pull-pit and a new rub rail.

    Here's how i found her on Monday morning 10th Feb.




    IMG_6584.jpg

    IMG_6586.jpg
    IMG_6581.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:16 AM.
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  12. #572
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    As it would happen of course, she came up on a particularly high spring tide - at the highest tide of the set......
    That afternoon, with some ropes, the anchor windlass and the motor we managed to inch her seaward a few meters, but not off the sand.
    IMG_6592.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:17 AM.
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  13. #573
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    you can see the hole where she was, but she still has to get over about 500mm of a bar to be free.

    IMG_6593.jpg

    So i made some calls and Terry, as it happened, just started a salvage gig with a dive school mate.....
    A tow was booked for the following mornings high tide, only about 10cm lower than the one she went up on.
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:17 AM.
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  14. #574
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Assessing the damage;

    IMG_6610.jpg

    Transom, 6cm thick teak.

    IMG_6608.jpg

    Bronze fitting for the stern shroud, torn off and thrown away..... BUMMER!
    IMG_6597.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:18 AM.
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  15. #575
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Next morning, i was feeling a little anxious about the boat. It seemed precariously balanced and i was worried, overnight, that someone would climb her or do somethign stupid.

    IMG_6617.jpg

    I had visions of it tipping over and placing 8tns on some poor teenage sod.
    But she's in deeper than her ballast here - so probably not likely.

    Picturesque if it wasn't such a disaster......
    IMG_6621.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:20 AM.
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  16. #576
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Anyhooo

    Terry came along and gave her a most ungraceful drag off the beach. Skull drag is appropriate. Pulled right over on her side, even at full tide while she was afloat, and over the bar.
    It did another amount of damage like pulled the rear bolts for the windlass up into the deck, bent the stemhead fitting and general upsettingness stuff.

    IMG_6625.jpg

    I had the motor goign all the while to help, as she came off the bar and righted i kowcked her into neutral.
    when we were ready i popped her into forward again and she stalled. I figured she'd fouled something - or worse, the drag off the beach had bent something like the prop shaft maybe (it was very unceremonious).

    As it turnout out, the contents of the lockers had been thrown everywhere and a line from a fender had fouled the shaft inside. we didn't find that out till later - for now it was a tow to the creek to await lift out.
    IMG_6626.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:21 AM.
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  17. #577
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    While she was in the creek she got an initial inspection by the insurance assessor.
    He tried to pin it on me saying the work i had done created the weakspot. I'd put the fitting back the way it was - he tried to say i had thrown away backing plates - which i hadn't. I had only swapped for new fasteners - like with like.

    The local shipwright who has an interest in wooden boats had watched the work i was doing while she was in the yard, and he'd done a survey only months before the incident - he is a trusted party by the insurance company so his word was very helpful.
    I also had a letter not long recieved from Maritime 'thanking' me for keeping my mooring is such good condition! I forwarded that to the insurance company.

    She got lifted out - again..........

    IMG_6645.jpg




    IMG_6647.jpg




    IMG_6652.jpg

    And back in the Hotel California.
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:23 AM.
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  18. #578
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    She got a good going over by the insurance company and there were questions fired at me and a lot of worry.
    In the end they agreed it was a force majeur, no fault on anyone. Which is great on my side, but it meant my neighbour had to claim the damage on his insurance and so copped a cost for the excess. I chipped in 50% to easy my conscience.
    Dave (neighbour) is still on the hard. he's got some lovely new steelwork and has had a chance to do a whole bunch of work in the yard for very little cost to himself. He was looking at a haul out for his bottom soon anyway - so in the wash i think he's came out not too bad. Though he did miss a few months sailing.

    Insurance wrote the boat off - the cost of repair was greater than 75% of the insured value. So they paid me out and i bought the boat back off them for salvage.

    The quote for repairs included a good chunk of labour - so if i can save the majority of that i can get another few things done to the boat.

    On the wishlist for extras; New rigging, furling headsail, sandblast the hull, gas stove.
    As i progress, the gas stove may have to be forgotten... we'll see.
    IMG_6748.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:24 AM.
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  19. #579
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    What's the abrasive? Soda, glass, sand ...?
    Sand, he's done a few boats around.
    It's pretty terrifying - it can do, and did in spots, a lot of damage. but for the most part it's okay. definiotely some filling and the whole thing will need to be sanded.

    But more of that later.
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  20. #580
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Sheathing?
    I don't think so.
    I just can't see how it could deal with the movement in the hull without being really substantial.
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  21. #581
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    while the insurance was inspecting and deliberating - i got on with a few other bits and bobs.

    I had a second hand furler in my shed for a year or so. I'd pulled it apart and given it a thorough servicing - its in good condition and the movement if easy and tight.

    IMG_6721.jpg

    IMG_6722.jpg

    The foils have an insert at each join, as normal, but then there is a small tab that is used to secure each foil to the last. It'd be about 50mm long with a hole for an M6 grub screw or something. Anyway - it doesn't have those tabs - nor can i find a picture of them - nor can the Hood guys in Sydney help me out......

    IMG_6725.jpg

    So i chopped off the ends of each foil, drilled a 4.5mm hole in them and tapped for an M5.
    I purchased some 6mm long M5 grub screws. my intention is to forego the little tabs and tighten straight onto the infill joining piece. Works, but M5 might be a little small. The wall of the foil is about 2mm, so a little light too. I might upgrade to M8.
    I did a practise run and it works just fine. There shouldn't be that much pull force on the foils so it only needs something to hold it in place..... it felt plenty firm.
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:26 AM.
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  22. #582
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Having worked on the deck of this boat before........
    I knew the stern of the boat was too awkward to work on from decklevel, and too high for a step ladder - and the work too involved for any kind of ladder.
    So i built a scaffold around it.

    IMG_6745.jpg

    Bloody hell it makes a difference!!
    SOOOO much easier.
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:27 AM.
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  23. #583
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Then i got stuck in.
    No pics, but i ran a circular saw across the deck and cut out the injured part.

    IMG_6760.jpg

    I pulled off the deck section, and the beam came with it - and some of the broken, and not so broken, planking.
    The beam needed replacing - which is why i was a bit cavalier with it. the push-pit bolts had pulled up into it and it showed some cracking.

    First bit of carpentry - new deck beam out of a choice piece of Oregon. The beams are hardwood throughout - but by now Coivid is setting in and timber yards are shut to all but tradies. The hull is Oregon - and frankly i have no problem with using Oregon for this purpose.

    IMG_6761.jpg

    Cut and dressed for lines to be transferred.
    Many measuring and few cutting. Compound cuts were a tad terrifying and i didn't have enough material for a second go at it....

    IMG_6762.jpg

    But she came out whizz bang!

    IMG_6765.jpg

    I didn't put a curve in the underside.
    I don't have the tools to do a really good job of dressing - perhaps bandsaw and copious sanding would do it. But this is way back in the overhang, headroom is not an issue.
    Those dark streaks are really resinous patches that smell - i find - devine.

    Back on the boat and she dropped in like a bought one.
    IMG_6794.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:30 AM.
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  24. #584
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    i didn't take a shot of before i started to chop into the stern.
    But here i've got into the planking..... starting to prep for scarfing....

    IMG_6790.jpg

    Yes - i thought of it maybe a week later after it'd glued up, - i did the scarfs on the wrong plane.
    Port side there, small end of the second plank down had to be repaired, top plank needed a new piece for maybe 500mm, also toe rail and rub strip need sections. I opted for a 4:1 scarf.
    Here's the first of the previous injuried showing up. You can see the plank has what appears to be a crack - its actually a previously epoxied crack thats missing some material on the inside.

    I also did my cuts, which was a primary consideration for the scarf, so as to avoid cutting through the moulded detail that runs the length of the boat, just below the rub strip.

    Starboard side;
    IMG_6791.jpg

    And just visible is the crack in the knee at the fourth bolt down. Another laminating job.
    I didn't pull the transom or knee out yet - i needed the flat top pieces that remained as a reference for the top of the plank.
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:32 AM.
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  25. #585
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Those holes in the beam shelf are for a fitting that protruded through the shelf and supported an old wind steering system.
    It was/is a Mustfa auxiliary rudder system that i have in the shed and never installed. Big and heavy - but attractive because its probably bullet proof, very nicely engineered, and can also be an emergency rudder. However - big and heavy, there's just a lot of it.
    I had fitted a much lighter servo-pendulum system that is a total write-off - twisted beyond repair.

    Behind those holes there were some infil pieces to strengthen the shelf at that point.

    Scarffed in my first repair;

    IMG_6793.jpg

    forgot to bring bloody clamps.

    I let that go off and the following week installed the big planking pieces.

    IMG_6802.jpg

    I have some really nice Oregon dried at the side of my house. The planking is 28mm thick and tight grained.

    In they went, over sized and this time with clamps.

    IMG_6805.jpg

    Drilled out some plugs, and while i had some thickened epoxy, i went round and cleaned up some holes and plugged up.

    IMG_6804.jpg

    holes where the deck beam was ripped out of the beam shelf.

    IMG_6806.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:34 AM.
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  26. #586
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Back the following week - lined up the cuts and brought the planks down to their marks - more or less. Belt sanded the last hair breaths.

    IMG_6829.jpg

    IMG_6828.jpg

    Rub of the belt sander on the outside and she's looking smart.
    the gap is a caulking bevel - otherwise its pretty snug.

    IMG_6826.jpg

    And the scarfs are sound - good solid join.
    Fixed to the frame though two holes (original had one) with monel screws. Still can't quite get the hang of my bit and brace.....

    hence a little tear out on the screw slots....

    IMG_6836.jpg


    QUESTION - how to secure the plugs back in place? The original appear to have be glued in with resourcinol. They came out easy with the press of an awl.
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:36 AM.
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  27. #587
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    next - get the transom off.

    The myriad of bolts, that IMHO weakened that knee, are a mixture of original fasteners and introduced fasteners to support the fore mentioned wind steering system.
    IMG_6807.jpg

    There's the broken piece of the knee freed up. Copper bolts through the transom, the original fasteners and all in good shape.
    Transom was carved from three big blocks of teak. They must have been a meter long, about 200 deep and a good 150mm thick.

    IMG_6831.jpg

    Between the transom planks there was a really decent amount of thickened epoxy...... something like this has happened before me thinks.....
    Copper rod down through the planking would NOT give way - reciprocating saw came out....
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:37 AM.
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  28. #588
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck




    IMG_6830.jpg

    First section off.....

    IMG_6832.jpg

    That hole nearest of for the exhaust outlet. The wood was soft and fluffy - very soft and fluffy. There must have been a litre of sikaflex in there around the exhaust fitting.

    Second section off;



    IMG_6838.jpg

    I was hoping to save that copper rod - for what i don't know. But it had to be cut in the end.

    Ooops, nearly forgot;
    plugs and screws - reminiscent of swiss cheese.

    IMG_6833.jpg

    IMG_6837.jpg

    The planking is really more fragile than i think i would like at this point, so pondering what the final result might be. I am reluctant to shorted the planks in the first instance.
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:42 AM.
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  29. #589
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Then the rest of the knee had to come off;
    This is one of three bolts holding it on - unusual bolts in my experience. Thats a 25mm diameter head.

    IMG_6839.jpg

    And transom and knee are out.
    red lead visible in the rabbet.

    It was a little bit of a wrestle to get it out without snapping the planks.
    For the reinstall i think i'll have to cut those beam shelves back beyond that frame and scarf in a new section post install - i might introduce a couple of quarter knees too - something simple laminated on the bench here at home.

    IMG_6840.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:43 AM.
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  30. #590
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Some pictures for those who like to check out such things;
    IMG_6841.jpg


    IMG_6842.jpg

    And the transom reassembled on the bench - before i remembered i needed an edge to take the curve off.......

    IMG_6844.jpg

    Curve off.......

    IMG_6846.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:45 AM.
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  31. #591
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Then a mold for the transom.
    Its a section of a cylinder, which is nice. i had worried it was maybe a section of a sphere........

    IMG_6847.jpg

    Set up for planing and sanding. I do love hand planing.

    IMG_6848.jpg

    And assembled into a mold.

    IMG_6859.jpg

    some bits for clamping to and a diagonal to hold the shape.

    IMG_6860.jpg

    The transom is roughly 1000 x 560. My mold is for 1100 x 600 so i'll have material to take off.
    i aim to laminate up 70mm thickness as opposed to the original 60mm -again to have material to take off.

    IMG_6867.jpg

    First layer of Oregon. Not yet glued.
    i used a polyurethane glue to edge glue the first layer.
    The second layer will be epoxied on and run 90 to this. This first layer is 10mm, next one i am aiming for 6mm to make bending easy - then i'll go to maybe 230mm epoxied again and so on. It is chewing through material fast. my stock of lovely Oregon will probably get entirely used up just with the transom. There's a lot of waste - sawing the pieces out and thicknessing them uniform.



    First layer - glued and clamped.
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:50 AM.
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  32. #592
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    And another photo for previous post;
    IMG_6868.jpg

    __________________________________________________ _______________________


    Then the most harrowing experience of my life- sand blasting.
    i have been worried about this for an age - but it had to happen. Just simply had to be done, i couldn't think of a way around it.

    Before;
    IMG_6869.jpg

    The test, above the waterline and below;

    IMG_6870.jpg

    Below the water line came off like he was hosing it down. he held the nozzel about 750mm from the surface and it washed away. The soft wood got treated a bit rough but i sould be able to sand it fairly good. Some small sections got chewed preper and will need filling.

    Thinking; thickened epoxy filler - but concerned about caulking seams....?
    Any thoughts?

    Above the waterline however was different and the sand ate the planking like you wouldn't believe. STOOOPPPPP!!
    Absolutely ferocious - but the paint just wouldn't come off.

    here it is with bottom done;

    IMG_6874.jpg

    And he's just getting into the top.
    The objective with the top was revised to a quick rub to break the covering layer of paint and flake off anything loose really quickly. The roughed up surface should make sanding much easier.

    IMG_6875.jpg

    Curious to see some old war woulds and repairs show up.
    Also steel bolt heads right at the surface along the topsides, through bolts to the knees at the bulkheads.

    It was also evident that she's been sand blasted before. The blast guy was able to show the evidence on patches that he'd lightly uncovered, still had paint, showing the deepened soft grain verses the hard. And above the waterline too....

    So there - all caught up.
    There is a lot of sanding on my horizon. Will borrow a decent compressor and use an air drive palm sander. I went at it with my big belt sander the last time and it nearly maimed me. I am preparing myself for a long sanding process, just get though it methodically and cleanly. Boring work but not complicated.

    If anyone has hints or tips for young players in this area i am all ears. I'm especially interested in filling the grain that will be left proud. Particularly where the test part on the topsides was done - that is frighteningly deep - maybe 5mm - in dense grained material.
    If stamina doesn't permit, what kind of undercoat/primer exists that can roll on thick and be sanded smooth....?

    Last edited by gypsie; 05-19-2020 at 12:52 AM.
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  33. #593
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Just a quick recap on questions if you guys have any ideas....

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post


    QUESTION - how to secure the plugs back in place? The original appear to have be glued in with resourcinol. They came out easy with the press of an awl.
    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    The soft wood got treated a bit rough but i should be able to sand it fairly good. Some small sections got chewed preper and will need filling.

    Thinking; thickened epoxy filler - but concerned about caulking seams....?
    Any thoughts?

    If anyone has hints or tips for young players in this area i am all ears. I'm especially interested in filling the grain that will be left proud. Particularly where the test part on the topsides was done - that is frighteningly deep - maybe 5mm - in dense grained material.
    If stamina doesn't permit, what kind of undercoat/primer exists that can roll on thick and be sanded smooth....?

    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  34. #594
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Okay, big picture first. If your planking is moving a lot, caulking won't fix it. You can refasten but that's a big job and depends on the condition of the planking and frames. Or you can do some refastening in key areas and then use structural sheathing below the waterline - two layers of double bias would do. That's what I would do.

    Use polyurethane glue for plugs. It likes damp timber, sands easily and is waterproof.

    Sanding filler with epoxy for fairing and grain filling. Then prime with a high-build primer like Jotun Penguard. Epoxy sanding filler is very easy to sand. I like West filler for this. I don't like West epoxy much. You can't use epoxy filler over seams if you suspect any movement as it'll just crack. Fairing over carvel seams really comes down to sanding the timber fair and painting. Once seams have been over caulked, been moving etc. then you're really left with refastening, splining etc. That's why proper sheathing becomes the best option unless you have a lot of time and money.
    Last edited by RFNK; 05-18-2020 at 02:57 AM.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  35. #595
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I am sorry to say that none of your pictures are coming through on the Woodenboat line here in the States! At least not on in California. I have deep remorse for all of the troubles you are going through! I have had to sue my own insurance company in the past for injury to my own boat that was done by another. I also wonder why so many many modern boat builders, still, insist on using ply wood for sub decking when the evidence that it does not work is there to stark stare them in the face! By the way, thick shellack is an excellent glue for bungs as it will shatter when it must be chiseled for removal. It is very economical and allows a clean hole to remain for the next plug.
    Still wishing you well!
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 05-18-2020 at 05:39 PM.

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