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Thread: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

  1. #1
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    Default 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I bought the boat 2 years ago in full knowledge that the deck was buggered.
    The laid deck was lifting in many places. it had been repaired at some point by driving clench nails through the teak and through the epoxy protected plywood underneath. The nails invited rot in and now the sub-deck is rotting badly in many places. As well as leaking water below decks even from a mild dew.



    The teak is thin, down to maybe 3mm or so, and beyond repair or salvage. The toe rail is soft, i was able to cut through it easily to have a look at the screws holing it on.
    It has got to go, with the exception perhaps of a few choice pieces. I'd love to recycle the cockpit seats somehow.



    She looks so nice here, it seems a pity that she has to be pulled up.



    Another close up showing the typical problem.



    You can grab the surface under the teak in places and scrape it off - like compost.
    I'm concerned the rot wil have infected the beams underneath.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Looks like she'll be well worth any effort you put into her, though! Gorgeous boat.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    The plan currently is to lay a deck of 18mm ply, soaked in Everdure (CPES) and add a glass layer on top.
    Paint with a good primer and finish with a textured deck paint.
    Not anywhere near as pretty as a laid deck, but thats beyond my budget and skill (to finish in a timely fashion).

    A little history;
    Designed by Alan Payne - there's an article on him in the WBM Nov/Dec 2004. He designed Gretel, Australia's first challenger for the America's cup in 1962.
    The build was commissioned by Jock Sturrock and she was launched in March 1962, as far as i know.
    She was built by Jack Gutierrez near, I believe, one of Jock Sturrocks family businesses, a timber yard, in Melbourne. http://arhv.anmm.gov.au/people/12989
    Sturrock captained Gretel in the America's cup in 1962, the same year he skippered my boat to fourth place in the Sydney to Hobart. She was called 'Julie O' after Sturrocks daughter.
    Currently she's names 'Waterwitch III', but we intend to rename her 'Caspian' after the Caspian Tern - appropriately we think, a Tasman seabird.

    She is Oregon (DF) hull over spotted gum frames with a turpentine keel and stem. Double frames steamed in place, about 1" molded and sided, every 6". Planking is 1.25" thick.

    Here's a shot under the starboard cockpit bench looking aft from when i bought her.



    You can see the discolouration on the underside of the seat, and that's mild.



    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Took her off the mooring at Callala bay in Jervis Bay, and brought her up the Currambene Creek at Huskisson. Always a tense moment crossing the little shallow bar at Currambene.
    I kept her on a mooring at the boat ramp for a couple of months, not because i wanted to. Waiting for a crane and another boat to become available simultaneously so i could share the cost. Should have moved faster.
    For the 2 months she sat at that mooring we didn't have a drop of rain. Now that I've taken her out its been raining everyday since.

    First off, photo documented the deck. pictures of all the fittings, placement etc.. and penetrations through the bulwarks and so on.



    Then denuded her of sails and boom, and anything else that could be safely taken off.



    Here she is sans stuff, including safety lines.



    Bottom needs a scrub, its only been a year but she's got some build up around the higher edges.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Bit of an eventful morning bringing her over to the jetty.
    Motor would not start. Went through the motions and found the fuel filter was clogged. swapped it out and hey presto.
    managed to get her over on slack water, high tide. smooth little run from the mooring but as i came alongside she wouldn't go into reverse. I was going very slowly at that point so jumped off and tied off before she went too far.
    She is in bad need of some love.



    Crane arrived a bit early. Pity about the motor trouble, it meant i didn't have time for my planned coffee.



    Two lifts that morning. Didn't get a pic of the other boat - but man it needed to be gotten out and scraped!
    Here's Waterwitch lining up for her turn.



    Crane driver was worried about being able to lift her. (Now you tell me!).
    She has 10 tons stamed into her timbers forward. I thought possibly another ton of water soaked into her, diesel and gear, plus a ton for good measure. He couldn't lift 12 tons at that reach.
    Gave her a small lift to float her close to the crane.





    So sorry to be saying goodbye to that deck.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    A mere 8 tons metric.
    Mast was 150kg.





    Up to Terry's rather glamourous yard.



    Gently, gently



    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Off with the bits.
    I got a special tool; its long, about 12 years old and can squeeze into tight nooks. Displayed an unexpected knack for problem solving corroded bolts and a welcome willingness to crawl into uncomfortable places.



    Essential tools, spray, impact driver and mallet.





    The tiredness of the decks and need for love is more obvious as she gets stripped of her bling.



    That's as far as i've gone thus far.
    I'm back to the yard on Thursday to lift the boom off and start into the rubstruip and bulwarks. Screws every 30cm, about 50 each side. If they are as eager to hang onto the boat as all the others, its going to be a long slow strip back.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I shall be watching with interest as my future holds similar joy, but on a larger scale. I'm hoping, hoping, I only have to replace patches of ply, but when the teak comes off we will see what we will see.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Lovely boat. I will also be following along with interest.
    PeterW

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Good start, and hurray for the 12 y/o versatool! I was one once, rather a long time ago! And, hurray for the sense and resolve to remove what has to be removed, in this case the beautiful looking deck overlay. Almost 30 years ago, I faced the same dilemma, and removal, repair, and resolve not to look back, was the only way out...
    BQ

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Great job and great blog! Enjoy that versatool while you can Mine grew up and moved to your neighborhood (she's in Nelson Bay) from the NW US. Wants to eventually buy a house in Tassie.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Lovely boat! Wish you heaps of luck and not too many hidden problems!

    Are you planning to make a drawing where everything was positioned, or do you reckon the pics will be enough? I only found out by starting a drawing that I would definitely have placed the chainplates for the mainmast in the wrong position.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I hate to be redundant but indeed, she is a lovely boat: the kind of boat that gets under your skin and becomes a part of you and your family!

    What you are dealing with is what I will soon have to do on our H28 ketch "Bright Star". Our sweet heart has a teak veneer deck that is now so thin as to no longer be serviceable or saveable! This problem of teak overlay decks over plywood that rots out from under the teak is a phenominum that goes hand in hand with modern methods and materials used in contemporary boat building! One of the major deterrants to longevity of this building style is in the polysulfide seam compound! I have yet to see a deck over eight to ten years of age that does not have delaminating seams that are made of one of the modern wonder seam compound materials!
    In more than sixty five years of boat building, I have yet to see a deck laid in this way that has not failed in some manner! It is a proven fact that a plywood sub deck will rot if water gets to it through leaking seams. Regardless of whether or not the teak itself is good, it must be removed in order to replace the sub decking. Often, the rot problem goes into the framing of the boat causing all manner of expensive repair work to be necessary!

    Many years ago the wooden yacht "Good News", while on a world cruise, had a deck laid in this manner when she visited the Philippines. It was done during the rainy season and by the time the boat returned California there was a mushroom farm in her underdecking and the entire job had to be scrapped! It cost the owner one hell of a lot money!

    I sincerely wish that plywood and polysulfide seam compound had never been invented! It is the curse of modern boat construction in that it creates a vessle that is in need of major repair or destruction long before it reaches the age of vessels that have been built in a more conventional manner!

    If indeed you wish to have a planked deck at a lesser cost than teak, you might consider one of the gum woods from your area that have proven to work for decking of older vessels that have lasted forty to fifty years or more. I have seen several examples of gum wood used for planked decks from your part of the world that have worked out very well indeed. Such a deck that is laid over a thin sub deck of Alaska Yellow cedar that is made into thin tongue and groove staving , with a skin of glass or carbon fiber cloth over it. This will insure a tight deck that will last for many many years and the tongue and groove cedar makes a nice looking overheard instead of the blank looking plywood. Bear in mind that the planking must be thick enough to allow deck it to be caulked with cotton using a mallet and caulking iron or a caulking wheel. It should be payed with Jefferie's Marine Glue as the seam compound over the cotton caulking. Jefferie's Marine glue will not separate from the sides of a properly laid and caulked deck and allow moisture to intrude below!

    Yes, it is a bit of work but in the end you will have a deck that will last and not give problems to cause you to loose sleep over worrying about the soundness of your decks!

    End of rant! All of us wish you good fortune with your fine little ship!
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 09-04-2018 at 04:28 PM.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    good looking boat. good luck.

    jim

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I won't quote Jays piece. I will say that glass over ply with careful attention to all penetrations will do very well.

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    Default 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Thanks for your interest all.
    Jay, I take your point and would live to have the luxury of time and money to do it that way.

    I got stuck in today, got the bulwarks off, the last of the deck fittings. A crane was at hand to lift off the mast and I used it to pull out the anchor windlass.
    This weekend I start on ripping up the deck, from the bow, in earnest.

    The rub strip came off in sections as I pulled the bulwarks. The sub deck at the edges would make great soil for growing tomatoes I think. Pure compost. There is no doubt, the whole sundeck is coming up.
    To your point jay, looking at the penetrations from underneath, the sub deck definitely out dates the laid teak. I would not be surprised if the ply is the original. The teak covering boards are screwed in, but its the ring shank nails through the protected ply surface that clearly has brought the rot in.

    I spoke to a gentleman this evening who recalled the boat from the sixties. I would normally be suspicious of such a claim, but without prompting he knew the designer and pin pointed the build site. We got into discussion about the deck solution.

    My initial thinking was two layers of 9mm marine ply. To stagger the seams. But then I wondered about simply a single layer of 18mm, with the seams radiused and filled epoxy and glassed over......

    Any thoughts?

    I have always used fiber glass cloth with epoxy, any reason to consider Dynel?

    Pictures to follow.
    Last edited by gypsie; 09-06-2018 at 06:41 AM.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    Lovely boat! Wish you heaps of luck and not too many hidden problems!

    Are you planning to make a drawing where everything was positioned, or do you reckon the pics will be enough? I only found out by starting a drawing that I would definitely have placed the chainplates for the mainmast in the wrong position.


    Hey mate, Im not that concerned.
    I wont be putting some things back, like the spinnaker winches. Most everything went through the deck beams so the holes will remain for reference, drilling upwards. Im going to move the windlass back to its original forward position (judging from the penetrations under the deck. The chain has been dropping through to the bee berth - but there’s a perfectly good chain locker forward that was unused.
    The chain plates will be easy to locate for the same reasons. Tracing the beams into the new deck will be the handiest thing for above deck reference. I want place a 10mm pad, epoxy glued to the deck, under every deck fitting. So theres a step up to the penetrations. I think a major problem has been rain water swishing around fittings and having plenty of time to find its way down.
    Last edited by gypsie; 09-06-2018 at 06:46 AM.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Slight worry, it feels like the cockpit coaming, outboard sides, at the deck join, is soft. Pulling out the cockpit would be annoying.

    I have always intended to pull up the cockpit seats, the drain away is rubbish. But to pull out the coaming is to truely mess with the structure.

    But, what needs to be done, needs to be done.
    Last edited by gypsie; 09-06-2018 at 12:04 PM.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    My initial thinking was two layers of 9mm marine ply. To stagger the seams. But then I wondered about simply a single layer of 18mm, with the seams radiused and filled epoxy and glassed over......

    Any thoughts?

    I have always used fiber glass cloth with epoxy, any reason to consider Dynel?

    Pictures to follow.
    Can't see in the pictures how much crown you've got, but I doubt you will be able to bend 18 mm enough to follow your crown. Just for reference: I'm replacing my deck (still), bottom-layer is 12 mm with screws to beamshelf and deckbeams (any thicker wouldn't work with my crown), and 3 consecutive layers of 6 mm epoxy-filler-glued on top, held with staples for the curing of the epoxy. Would I have used thicker material for the epoxy-filler-glueing, the stapels would have just pulled out.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Hey mate, Im not that concerned.
    I wont be putting some things back, like the spinnaker winches. Most everything went through the deck beams so the holes will remain for reference, drilling upwards. Im going to move the windlass back to its original forward position (judging from the penetrations under the deck. The chain has been dropping through to the bee berth - but there’s a perfectly good chain locker forward that was unused.
    The chain plates will be easy to locate for the same reasons. Tracing the beams into the new deck will be the handiest thing for above deck reference. I want place a 10mm pad, epoxy glued to the deck, under every deck fitting. So theres a step up to the penetrations. I think a major problem has been rain water swishing around fittings and having plenty of time to find its way down.
    I'm sure you know that, but just in case ... the pads are a good idea to add more strength etc., but they won't protect you from water finding it's way in. When installing them, you need to bed the fittings/winches/base of the windlass in any kind of goop, be it sikaflex, butyl-tape or even putty and cover the shanks of screws/bolts with the same stuff before inserting them.

    Edit: Drilling upwards is fine - as long as you have access to each spot and don't have to remove half of your interior.

    With your windlass, try to trace or find out why the windlass was moved from its original place before removing everything. There might have been a good reason to change its position - or there might not. Remember: we humans are a lazy bunch, so why would someone go for the effort of moving something if it's not necessary. Without knowing why you could end up having to move the windlass again back to it's current position once your deck is finished and all the nice holes drilled.
    Last edited by Dody; 09-06-2018 at 07:52 AM.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Done properly, a plywood and glass deck is as good as it gets this side of a cold moulded and bronze strapped affair.. Teak over lay on ply is not something i would ever do myself on a boat i own. I have yet to see one rot out as quick as Jay suggests or has seen though.
    Great looking boat, well worth the effort. Bummer about the coaming, but you know you gotta pull it and see how bad it is.

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    Default 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    Can't see in the pictures how much crown you've got, but I doubt you will be able to bend 18 mm enough to follow your crown. Just for reference: I'm replacing my deck (still), bottom-layer is 12 mm with screws to beamshelf and deckbeams (any thicker wouldn't work with my crown), and 3 consecutive layers of 6 mm epoxy-filler-glued on top, held with staples for the curing of the epoxy. Would I have used thicker material for the epoxy-filler-glueing, the stapels would have just pulled out.


    Theres not much crown at all. Shes not flat for sure. I would guess maybe 30mm over the span. It might be deceptive, when I pop off the deck I,ll take a measure.

    I havent written decking in stone yet. The mating to the steel bow roller fitting is a consideration. Nice to have that fair without a step up or down. Presently it looks like 18mm ply with the thin veneer of teak. So possible final result could be 2x9mm plus 1x6mm layers. Or the 18 plus a six....

    Yep to goop, Sikaflex. Looking at possible thin rubber gaskets for the fittings to bite onto. Also timber pad on underside of deck at least on the chain plates.

    I think the windlass position was just about room on the foredeck. The old penetrations dont match the current unit so maybe when the bigger one was installed someone moved it aft.....?
    From my knowledge of ownership we are the first family to have her. So we use the vee-berth a lot more than others maybe. Having wet chain come down through that space, with the accompanying stripping of beds and up rooting hatches is a pain. Theres less room for the chain under the berth than in the chain locker forward, so it invariably piles up onto beds.
    So the compromise is, cluttered bow way forward and easy managed vee berth.

    Family is a sensitive thing. If it doesnt work for them, less sailing is had by yours truely.
    Last edited by gypsie; 09-06-2018 at 12:29 PM.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Forgive me for this one last comment here. One thing about laying a deck that can take the curse out of having to horse plywood panels around as well as getting it to fit and bend and properly sealed on all surfaces is to lay down tongue and groove, railway car siding. I prefer cedar because it is light. It is much easier and faster to fit the staves than a honking big plywood panel! I have a collection of bits I have used for all manner of thickness of T&G that allows me to run just about any kind of car siding that is needed. This goes for Victorian houses as well as boats. Cedar T&G looks good from beneath on a boat deck and nice on the walls of a house. It does not rot or collect termites either. It is easy to fair with a belt or random orbit sander as a prep for glassing if that is your choice. I have also done decks that are made up of several layers for added strength. It is also a heck of a lot lighter in weight than plywood!
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 09-06-2018 at 01:21 PM.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    The anchor winch may have been moved aft to get weight out of the ends, for racing perhaps? Sounds like you have a big pile of chain. For cruising, probably not really an issue. Racing guys do the craziest things to excuse their inability to go as fast as the next boat. You might find you need a couple of layers of thinner ply on the foredeck, but can use thicker on the side decks. Or it may be the opposite, if the side decks have a bit of curve to them you will never have the leverage to get thick ply to bend. Rebuilding the cockpit does sound like a lot more boat bucks and hours. You will find that suddenly having teenaged kids comes as a shock when this is all done Do you have a plan to stop the hull drying out through the summer?

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Adding a teak or Honduras Mahogany drip moulding to the sides of that deck house would greatly improve the look of your fine little ship.
    Jay

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    It would Those details make a world of difference. That's a nice stout pushpit she has too. I'm surprised Rick hasnt called in, he's a fan of Tasman Seabirds, and has rebuilt a deck or two.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Forgive me for this one last comment here. One thing about laying a deck that can take the curse out of having to horse plywood panels around as well as getting it to fit and bend and properly sealed on all surfaces is to lay down tongue and groove, railway car siding. I prefer cedar because it is light. It is much easier and faster to fit the staves than a honking big plywood panel! I have a collection of bits I have used for all manner of thickness of T&G that allows me to run just about any kind of car siding that is needed. This goes for Victorian houses as well as boats. Cedar T&G looks good from beneath on a boat deck and nice on the walls of a house. It does not rot or collect termites either. It is easy to fair with a belt or random orbit sander as a prep for glassing if that is your choice. I have also done decks that are made up of several layers for added strength. It is also a heck of a lot lighter in weight than plywood!
    Jay
    Oh to have access to affordable cedar. I bought some WRC to dress a transom of a boat a built a while back. Maybe 5mm thick, 190mm wide - $25 a meter.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Looks like she'll be well worth any effort you put into her, though! Gorgeous boat.
    ^This! Lovely design. Best of luck with your efforts.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Adding a teak or Honduras Mahogany drip moulding to the sides of that deck house would greatly improve the look of your fine little ship.
    Jay
    Yes, I toyed with ideas but haven't visualised any.
    Some of the Tasman Seabirds, because Alan Payne redrew planes for every new one, have a dog house. I thought about a hard dodger/dog house, but the layout of the cockpit doesn't make it easy.
    So i'll leave that for another day.

    If you have any images of what you think could work, please post - i'm open to ideas.
    The curve of the deck house poses some problems of where to land the beading...
    Now that you mention it, it does look a little naked in that region. The other bright timber on deck is all DF, except around the cockpit coaming. Not sure what that is.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Started to pop off the bulwarks.
    here's a shot of the bulwark, top, the hull, bottom and the compost that was the deck through the center.

    IMG_5090.jpg

    The hull planking seems to be spared the rot inspite of the proximity - so far.

    Removing the bulwark and the epoxied in 80mm slotted screws.
    cut down each side of screw. knock out the middle. Vise grips onto the stump and twist off. (Sore shoulder today!)

    IMG_5095.jpg

    IMG_5097.jpg

    IMG_5098.jpg

    IMG_5104.jpg

    Some of the screws didn't need twisting.
    Last edited by gypsie; 09-09-2018 at 10:06 PM.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    IMG_5106.jpg

    The scuppers in the bulwarks have this little goal post cap on them.
    Not sure why. Thought maybe to avoid snags for running rigging, but again can't see how it would be more of a problem than the safety line stanchions.
    Probably only to keep the lines clean along the sheer.

    IMG_5100.jpg

    Amazing huch better the aft timber is to the fore.
    Cutting through the forward sections was like cutting through stiff sponge. Aft it still had some of the solidity you'd expect. No scent of cut wood though. Overall, the timber is long past its use by date.

    IMG_5101.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 09-09-2018 at 10:08 PM.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Rudder Post - how to get this thing off without ripping the rudder post out of the deck.......?
    Bronze - soft - easy damaged with crow bar.....
    Spray won't penetrate.

    IMG_5103.jpg

    Other details i'd like to preserve but not sure i can. especially if the coaming is rotten - it'll all have to come off.

    IMG_5107.jpg

    Got the chain plates off.
    Bit of a system, three plates a side.
    Sample of the damage being done by water ingress. The chain platyes are undoubtedly the worst - must think through the replacement of these carefully.
    Shot from below deck.

    IMG_5112.jpg

    And the damage being done. Its amazing how quickly this came up and how it began to effect everything. This leak only appeared a few months ago.
    The discolouration is the ply deck composting.

    IMG_5113.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 09-09-2018 at 10:11 PM.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Just to reassure myself that i am doing the right thing, and this isn't madness.

    IMG_5111.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 09-09-2018 at 10:11 PM.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    16,038

    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I cant see your pictures!!

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Between Bourgeoisie and Proletariat - Australia
    Posts
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Bugger - any of them?
    They are all directly from google pics.

    Back to saving to the hard drive....
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

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