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Thread: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

  1. #631
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Best tool ever for knocking off epoxy goobs, slighly protruding nails (steel, bronze, whatever), copper wire ties, and all sorts of other things that you want to plane, but don't want to use a plane on - the Stanley Surform.
    images (2).jpeg

    Highly recommended

    Pete
    The Ignore feature, lowering blood pressure since 1862. Ahhhhhhh.

  2. #632
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Just finished catching up on all that went on after the 9th of February. What a nasty thing to happen after all the work you've put in, glad you keep on going strong and dealing with it, well done on all the jobs you've tackled! Only, the repair on your planks ... these "scarf-joints" are scary. You've still got access, please think about a way to do something about them! This is a high-stress area and you don't want things to go wrong there, certainly not when having company or even worse, your family on board.

    Concerning sheathing: you can avoid cracks and any other problems when first adding a layer of plywood-strips and only then adding Fibreglass with Epoxy.
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
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  3. #633
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    All I can say gypsie after viewing your well taken but, very disturbing pictures, is that it was all wrong from the beginning and the rest of that deck job was questionable! All of that beautiful teak gone for naught! However it does confirm the opinion I have been soapboxing for over the last fifty years or so or, ever since boat building with glass fiber hulls went into production. That is, that a teak deck laid over plywood with no proper shaped seams, no sealed edges, no cotton caulking and no Jefferies Marine glue to pay the seams with is a sure ticket to Hell failure and sorrow! If the damn decks were laid right in the first place you would not have to be going though the pain and frustration you are experiencing now!

    But don't listen to me because I don't know anything about wooden boats! I am just the guy who has been called on, over the years, to repair some other fool's mistake!

    Sorry for what you are being forced to go through to set your ship, to be sound and ship shape! I wanna go and bang my head against the closest bulkhead!

    Jay aka Bird
    What fools these mortals be! Puck
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 06-06-2020 at 05:02 PM.

  4. #634
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Thanks Epoxy boy - i will check that out. They have them in Bunnings.

    Dody - i don't share your concern (well, i didn't until you mentioned it... ). That plank join will be epoxied and screwed to the deck. It's not that stressed an area, I'm more concerned about the transom to plank join - I'm considering perhaps quarter knees to deal with wracking. I'll laminate some up just to have - i have plenty of spare strips

    Jay - yeah, i hear ya. But you know, if i wasn't in a filthy, sunburnt, wind blown yard eating paint dust - what else would i be doing? Probably stealing cars or breaking into houses.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  5. #635
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Dray fit of final layer on the transom;

    IMG_7011.jpg

    Then, usual, wet everything, layer of thickened goop under the strips and clamp down, clean up squeeze out.

    IMG_7012.jpg

    72mm of a 70mm target (to replace 60mm).

    IMG_7013.jpg
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  6. #636
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Sanding sanding, sanding sanding - we're all sanding , sanding sanding....

    I admit i am a bit daunted by the prospect of the amount of sanding i have to do.

    IMG_6875.jpg

    My objective is to bring it all back to bare smooth wood.

    Rick - i might start a thread - I am keen to know more about the possibilities of sheathing. I'd like to see examples of where it has been done and ensuing results. I can easily anticipate the pile of negative input - or the $100,000 solutions, but i have several weeks of sanding to be done and so time to consider it.

    Sorting out my sanding process;
    First, i put an 80 grit pad on a pneumatic RO sander - that'll take years.

    Then i stuck a 120grit flap pad on my grinder;

    IMG_7001.jpg

    This wasn't anywhere near as aggressive as i thought it would be. I have previously used 40 and 60 grit and that takes away material at a rate that one must be very respectful of the tool.
    It does leave the surface slightly wavey, its a convex cutting shape so its bever going to be flat.
    So - I planned, take 95% of it off with the grinder and then slap on the trusty belt sander to take away the high spots.

    Just a quick test patch, you can see the large plug on the right for reference.
    IMG_6999.jpg

    Note, if you can, the lifted grain due to the sand blasting and the general fuzziness.

    really, pretty quick sanding by both implements;
    IMG_7002.jpg

    The big plug is just bottom right of center in that second pick.

    I'm quite pleased with the result - the grinder didn't take material off as aggressively as i feared. Once it's knowked the top off the high grain it really settles down. Just keep the tool moving and Be AWARE!! - and its all manageable.
    What the 120 didn't do with such grace was the paint, especially the topsides polyurethane, that took a bit of focus and as a result there's a danger, when concentrating on a single spot, of cutting deep.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  7. #637
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Those lines in the last pic btw are various waterlines from previous scenarios. Not quite sure what the lowest ones are doing, but the current one is second from the top.
    Maybe she had no motor (or anything interior joinery) at some point. Also possibly, the top line is to mark the top of a boot stripe...?
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  8. #638
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Went at the stern section.
    I did about 750mm from the ends of the planks - plus a couple of other little jobs just to break the monotony. That took a day

    But the results are promising;
    IMG_7003.jpg

    I switched up to an 80grit pad for this section. due to the scaffolding i built, the sand blaster didn't get in here much so the paint surface was largely intact. the 120 just wasn't getting through.

    here's a patch i caught as the sun was setting, the low angle of the sun showed the little indents from the disk sanding - which startled me, but then i was able to observe the positive effects of the belt sander....

    section before sanding;
    IMG_7006.jpg

    Firs rub of the disk sander;
    IMG_7007.jpg

    The a relatively superficial rub of the belt sander.
    IMG_7008.jpg
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  9. #639
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    That second last picture above may alarm some of you as much as it did me - but those indents are very minor - the angle of the sun really exaggerates them.

    And after the belt sander you can rub your hand across the surface and it is lovely and fair.
    I'd guess i'm loosing less than 2mm of total thickness - on 28mm thick planks.

    Now i've got to take 2mm off the whole hull.......
    (I should really stop saying things like that).

    IMG_7009.jpg

    End of day one of sanding.
    750mm of hull sanded, new steaming and deck down light fitting installed (badly, new screw holes need to be tapped) and two new 100amp 'Lifeline' AGM house batteries fitted - and charging.


    I've decided i'll drill out all those screw holes and epoxy in plugs. Fill and fair all those chips and bits.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  10. #640
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Gypsie, I'm very pleased to hear that you're considering sheathing. I'm happy to help. Not because I know all about it, I don't. But because I'm fortunate to have close contacts who do. So, start a thread, wear the flak, and you'll get good advice as well as nonsense. It's worth tolerating the nonsense!
    Last edited by RFNK; 06-08-2020 at 07:57 PM.
    Rick

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  11. #641
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I released the transom from its mold.
    Outside face sanded and looking nice.

    IMG_7015.jpg

    Flipped it over. The first layer was edge glued with polyurethane glue.

    IMG_7016.jpg

    Gave it a quick smack of the grinder with a 120 grit disk. (The flap disk/grinder combo is fast becoming the new favourite tool).

    IMG_7017.jpg

    IMG_7020.jpg

    This face isn't looking quite a schmik as the outside.
    The edge nearest the edge of the bench will be the top of the transom and a significant bevel is needed up there - about 47° or 75mm ish (3").

    I've known this is the case when i selected strips and placement, so areas like this will be gone completely.

    IMG_7018.jpg
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  12. #642
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I took a shape from the inside face of the original transom, with some butcher paper. I figured i could get this right and transfer it to cardboard - for no particular reason. Maybe dry test the cardboard shape at the boat...... but this will only show that the shape came from the original transom - so not much to be gained, but a tendency to procrastination could be satisfied.

    IMG_7021.jpg

    IMG_7022.jpg

    Cut it out and laid it back onto the original - just to check.
    same shape! imagine that....

    IMG_7024.jpg
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  13. #643
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Still riffing on a theme, with no clear vision of how it will progress. But one step at a time.

    Took a few pointless measurements.
    IMG_7023.jpg

    wrote them down, then ignored them.

    I traced the original shape onto the new blank.

    IMG_7025.jpg

    Then cleaned up the lines with a sprung baton.
    You can see the amount of waste!

    IMG_7029.jpg

    I'm missing the very top piece of the transom - the bit that has the bulk of the bevel. So i can't trace that line - but from remaining bevel sections on the original i was able to eyeball the possible bevel line.

    IMG_7026.jpg

    My thinking is to get a maximum outside shape so i can cut away the bulk of the waste. Simply to lighten the thing - its bloody heavy.
    The blank is 70mm deep, i currently have no way of cutting that deep. I can get to 65 on the table saw - but cutting curves is not something i'll take on there.
    I have a circular saw at the boat with a 220mm blade (I think). That should give the depth.
    My plan is to cut off excess, well wide of the mark, and then bring it down slowly, power plane and sander.

    Test fit and re-test fit to the boat will be challenging - especially that notch for the rabbet center bottom. The transom needs to slide in from aft of the planking to fit the rabbet, but the planking gets narrower as it goes aft. The transom was clearly in place when the hull was planked.

    IMG_6840.jpg

    I may have to modify the rabbet on the boat so i can drop the transom down onto it - rather than slide it in. In fact, that's exactly what i will have to do. Won'r be as neat a finish - though i could drop in a graving piece afterwards.
    I'll also have to lose the ends of the beam shelves, back to forward of the last frame. i can reinstall with butt blocks - and quarter knees may well be handy (though it'll be glued and screwed to the deck directly above this.
    Last edited by gypsie; 06-09-2020 at 01:25 AM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  14. #644
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Gypsie, I'm very pleased to hear that you're considering sheathing. I'm happy to help. Not because I know all about it, I don't. But because I'm fortunate to have close contacts who do. So, start a thread, wear the flak, and you'll get good advice as well as nonsense. It's worth tolerating the nonsense!
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...78#post6202778
    Whizbang isn't prone to nonsense.... cold water, yes.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  15. #645
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  16. #646
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Oh for the courage to make a cut!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  17. #647
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I think I do understand now why David C. "Bud" McIntosh is writing in his book "How to build a wooden Boat" to simply use planks, if necessary steambent into shape before, instead of any laminated construction to plank the stern. I am only a few hours away of starting to plank my stern and decided to do it plank by plank because he pointed out that it's so much easier and getting much more accurate if you can handle one plank at a time. Honestly, the weight-factor and the complications of so may different angles you are faced with now never crossed my mind! Thank you heaps for that!
    fair winds, Dody
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  18. #648
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    You're probably right Dody.
    When i've shaved off the excess the weight should come down considerably - I must weight the thing before and after out of curiosity.

    We'll see after if my decision was a good one
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  19. #649
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Dody, as this is a repair of a boat without a fashion piece and with the planking in place, gypsie's method of using a one piece transom is the better decision. If one has a fashion piece the planking can be blocked off it and it's angles used to fair the transom planking in. But he does not have one so it's simpler to build the transom off the boat and cut it to shape with all the required angles.

  20. #650
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    No doubt you'll need to set up a crane/hoist/panel lift of some sort to hold it in place - a bit of a shame that you had to drop the mast. It might be worth hiring one for a couple of days to save your back ....... and a lot of swearing

    Larks

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    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  21. #651
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I hadn't thought of a gantry or something - i have built a platform around the stern, and i have a bit of timber left over.
    Now that you mention it, i might have a look at constructing something. Put a couple of coach eye screws in the transom inner face and some bits of line to bring it to level.

    I made a steel gantry when i repowered. I gave it to a friend - possible to modify it maybe. here it is with said friend and the old westerbeke.

    IMG_5550.jpg
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  22. #652
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Transom blank - 27.5 or 28kg or so.
    Feeling like a bit of a soft one - though in my defense it is an awkward lift.

    Quick guesstimate - just trimming the waste will knock off 20% of that. Final transom should be under 20kg.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  23. #653
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Whow! And do you know the weight of the original version?
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
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  24. #654
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Gypsie, great boat and what a journey and job for you. I only just read the OP and first page of this thread and realised that I have sailied on her a few times whern Sturrock owned her in the capacity of a lifesaver for sailing days for disabled persons, and one overnight race on Port Phillip as crew. I did once have some mono photo's but they have long gone. Built in '62, she must have been no more than 2 years old.

  25. #655
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Gypsie, great boat and what a journey and job for you. I only just read the OP and first page of this thread and realised that I have sailied on her a few times whern Sturrock owned her in the capacity of a lifesaver for sailing days for disabled persons, and one overnight race on Port Phillip as crew. I did once have some mono photo's but they have long gone. Built in '62, she must have been no more than 2 years old.
    Wow - that's cool!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  26. #656
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    Whow! And do you know the weight of the original version?
    Good question - just weighted it.
    Original right now is 10kg. Its missing some wood, including a small section of plank at the top, plus its missing the tie rods - so maybe it came in under 12kg.
    Which means i'll be adding 8kg or so.

    Another look at the original - i have way over built my new one. It is far stronger than the original ever was. So maybe adding 10mm thickness to the original 60mm, was over kill, i probably could have gone 10mm under rather than over.
    I stood on the new one on the floor, arch up. I could stand my entire family on that and it won't budge.
    The old one on the other hand was carved from solid pieces of teak. All the area that landed on the planking, and was screwed into, the grain ran out toward the center.

    In my humble, ill informed, inexperienced, opinion, i think the original was constructed poorly. Good stock, amazing timber, but framed over fashion pieces, with planks bent in, may have been stronger.
    I say this because the transom was not in good condition. When i did the deck i had to fill and fair it a lot. There's clear evidence of quite significant filling of gaps and fairing in the past. The previous owner even had a decorative cover made, that went over the whole thing to hide the goopy unfair mess. It may have been pretty when it rolled out of the shed, but it didn't stand up to time.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  27. #657
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Okay, Her's what ya need.
    8 inch 3M softpad on a 7 inch polisher wit 24 then 36 then 60 grit...
    A polisher is not a grinder or a sander. It looks the same, but it spins much slower.
    Do not be afraid of using heavier grits , a proper tool with the proper bits is a dream to use.

    ...the one one the left has the 8 inch softpad, the one on the right has a "spiral cool" 7 inch hard backer

  28. #658
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    They come in different thickness's and different "hardness".
    The blue ones are "ferro" brand...a fraction of the cost of 3M.
    The smaller one , I have cut it down and cut the sandpaper a bit oversize on purpose, this makes a very effective filet sander and good for concave curves

  29. #659
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I see the disc mark damage you did with the 4 inch hi speed. With this thig, one keeps the face of the sander flat against the hull and makes little circles , like Barbie waving goodbye to Ken.
    Throw the handle into the bin, it is for car polishing.
    If you buy a new polisher, remember that the pad it comes with is made for a wool polishing bonnet, it is not correct for sanding, as the face is not flat.
    The aftermarket softpads are expensive...but so is yachting what?

  30. #660
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Some softpads use a contact cement . The discs might be pre sticky, or you can just cut them from sandpaper and spray a little cement on.
    Some are "hook and loop".
    I use both. Thus, I may have 2 or 5 sanders simultainiously hooked up on a job, so as not to be constantly swappng pads, or mucking up a sharp disc ...
    If you have room and are able, I like to get some artificial wind goin...fans, leaf blower...send the dust to the next county.

  31. #661
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    The aftermarket softpads are expensive...but so is yachting what?
    Ain't that right.

    Thanks for that mate.
    I can access a 170mm polisher - and 175mm Hook and Loop foam pads in a local hardware store. 200mm disks then.....
    I think i can make this work.

    Appreciate it.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  32. #662
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I've been trying to think how to post the above suggestions and guidance that Bruce put up: well done! +1 on the method and tools there! And with photos at the ready and all! The learning curve for polisher/softpad can be a bit steep, but most mistakes can be remedied with more epoxy and fill...and a good hand with a soft pad can work wonders in a relatively short time. The "new" D/A's or random orbits are wonderful for what they do, but the almost-lost art of a softpad has a place. For what you have here, Gypsy, its worth some effort to add that skill and gear, if you can.
    I learned a lot from the guys at a surfboard/sailboard shop next door to my shop in the '80s, the "sanders" (that was a job title not a tool, though some of them were tools, but I digress). Absolute magic, taking a shaped foam blank covered with light glass and polyester resin (surf or sail board) and sanding it fair, flat, smooth, without getting into the (very very light/thin) polyester glass skin. after gloss coats and polishing the boards were perfect, flawless (not really, but you had to be pretty good and pretty fussy to see the flaws). Geez, I'm a geezer griping about lost skills and such! Oh well, so it goes I guess...

  33. #663
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck


    Remember too, Smoothing is not fairing.
    Too soft of a pad ...and you will just be polishing bumps. You will have a very smooth and shiny lumpy boat.
    A DA is not a fairing tool, It will follow and polish lumps and bumps. It is dandy ror removing /prepping paint from an already faired boat, but over a large area of bare wood...not so much.
    There is anothe trick I have seen ,but not used.
    Gannon and Benjamin do it, and the Canadian guys who restored Carlotta do it. They glue and screw a 9"X11" piece of ply to a round softpad, then spray glue a whole sheet of sandpaper to it. This actually prevents the edges of the round disc from digging in, and it allows you to "see" what you are sanding.
    Of course the rectangle of ply is carefully centered, so it turns balanced.
    I also have been disc sanding for 45 years, and have witnessed the tools and pads change and get much better.
    Sort of like the revolution in screws and impact drives in the past 10 years

  34. #664
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I have only just now read most of this thread and watched your trip so far.
    I've used nothing but Primus /optimus stoves on all my boats. The biggest trick I can give you is to substitute paint thinner for Kero.
    Awhile ago, an Austrailian told me this was dangerous advice, as our words sometime differ. "Paint thinner" to himwas not "paint thinner" to me.
    But Im , talking about regular one part oil paint paint thinner. Mineral spirit, white spirit.For a few bux extra, one may get "odorless"
    (but not the hippie milky enviro friendly substitut crap)
    NOT acetone, xylene, interlux LP thinner, Awlgrip spray thinner,etc.
    I can instantly tell if someone even has kero in a wick lamp below...I cannot tolerate the stinky mess.
    Anyway, clean the kero out of your rig and maybe try it !
    I used to have a Hiller Range like you have, 3 burner with oven. By n by, fuel leaked into the oven insulation and caught fire...we had a close call.
    I changedthe name to Hindenburg andpromptly pitched it. I use only stove top models now.

  35. #665
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    Default Re: 1962 Tasman Seabird - New Deck

    I don't want to muddy the waters here but we use what we call Gum Spirits of Turpentine for thinning oil based paint here it it is of the old formulation like that which Kirbys sells. Also, It is often a good idea to wear a full toxic chemical barrier suit when sanding bottom paint!
    Bird

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