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Thread: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

  1. #1
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    Default strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    I need to fix my kayak.Been working on it over 2 years off and on but the bottom is clear and looks great the top side is dull and kinda white under the epoxy. I used west sytem 105 and the slow hardener mix was correct, stirred properly maybe coat to thick. Its cured now how to fix. I have pics but don`t know how to post. I can send to someone if they can help.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Has it been sitting out in the sun? If so, it may be UV deterioration of the epoxy.

  3. #3

    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    I have white blush on my canoe. I, too , used the West system. I had wanted the clear finish, and Cold Cure used a yellow hardener. I talked to Ted Moore's wife at a show, and she felt I had worked the epoxy too much. Ted Moore wrote Canoecraft. I personally think I used the wrong epoxy, I should have used Industrial Formulators. System Three bought out IF, a few years back.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Probably UV exposure.
    Take the pic and upload it to your computer.

    Click on the square "insert image" icon at the top of the reply box.

    Select "From Computer".

    Now click on "Select Files".

    That will give you a box where you can find your photos that are on your computer.

    Click on the photo you want to post. The name of the photo will appear in the box.

    Click on "Upload File(s)" and wait until it is uploaded.

    Click on "Post Quick Reply". The photo won't actually show full size until you post the reply.

    Save these instructions for further use. Once you've done it a few of times it becomes intuitive.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Possibly a bit of moisture in the mix there somewhere.
    Min the future , use 207 for coating . It’s made for avoiding this problem.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    You can get air bubbles by working or stirring the epoxy too much / too vigorously.
    Also as has been said, UV (sunlight) will kill the epoxy/ wood interface and make it white - it doesn't take long.
    If it is UV, it makes it very easy to peel off the glass to redo the coating.

    Good luck.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Happened to me one high humidity day; never before or since
    Good luck

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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white


  9. #9
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    I think it needs a vigorous sanding with 80 grit with an RO sander to get that layer off .
    Polish with 100/150/220 then coat with 105/207.
    With luck, it may not need woofing. Sand for a bit, wipe it with a wet cloth to see what’s doin now and then . When the white bit is gone, yer good to go.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Dang, that's a shame! You did such a nice job stripping. Hard to tell from pic but it kinda looks like it's on the surface, like sanding marks. If you wet it does it look the same?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    I have been sanding on the hull. If I wipe with a wet cloth it almost goes away then reappears. Yea the first and second coats the boat was very nice looking then 3rd coat went to bed rushed out to find dull. The bottom half of the boat is great shiny I don`t know what happened to the top.
    Last edited by Reel-Break; 08-29-2018 at 08:08 AM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    .... keep sanding .

  13. #13
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    HPIM0946.jpgThat's what it looked like when I went to bed. I will sand away Thanks all.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    I think it needs a vigorous sanding with 80 grit with an RO sander to get that layer off .
    Polish with 100/150/220 then coat with 105/207.
    With luck, it may not need woofing. Sand for a bit, wipe it with a wet cloth to see what’s doin now and then . When the white bit is gone, yer good to go.
    This is very bad advice. STOP SANDING!

    You can already see the cloth weave pattern. Any more sanding and you will be cutting down even farther into the cloth which is holding the boat together. What you can see when it is really wet is what it will look like when varnished. If you are planning on doing any more sanding, you had better add a couple rolled on coats of resin first, because you currently have no excess there which can be removed.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Look carefully here and you can clearly see the cloth weave. That is the top of the glass layer, and unless you happen to be feathering out multiple layers of glass cloth this means that you should stop sanding that area immediately. In an ideal world, your sanding of a stripper's filler coats should stop and be baby butt smooth and perfectly fair right at the level just before you hit the cloth. Reality is a little different, but that is what you are shooting for and you can seriously weaken the boat by sanding farther into the cloth. As is, it will still usually go nicely clear when varnished. At certain sun angles in bright light you may see a bit of silver sparkles from the sun hitting the cloth, but it's not a big deal and the sun angle has to be just right to show it.

    20180813_194229a.jpg

  16. #16
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Thank you for the advice I will wet sand get smooth and varnish. What varnish you recommend? Sir what do you think happened just wrong epoxy hardener,to thick last coat,humidity. The reason I haven`t finished the boat was I was sick how it turned out. But want to finish it and paddle in the lumber river challenge this coming month.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Quote Originally Posted by Reel-Break View Post
    Thank you for the advice I will wet sand get smooth and varnish. What varnish you recommend? Sir what do you think happened just wrong epoxy hardener,to thick last coat,humidity. The reason I haven`t finished the boat was I was sick how it turned out. But want to finish it and paddle in the lumber river challenge this coming month.
    Hold off on the varnish. If those white areas are unfilled glass weave you need a few more filler coats. If so, you need remove any blush that has formed. Vigorous application of water with a scotchbrite pad will do it. Then apply more layers of epoxy until the lowest area of epoxy is above the highest strand of glass. Then you will have enough coating to do a leveling sand out. Myself, I would then roll on a couple more coats of epoxy before final sanding. Roll on successive coats when the previous coat is tacky. If you wait too long you will need to sand again. I would let the final coat sit for a week without sanding. Then remove any blush and then final sand, in that order. Sanding imparts heat which can drive amine blush back into the epoxy where it will cause trouble. Now you can put on the varnish.

    Also, those white areas may be micro-bubbles caused by excessively working the epoxy into the glass. If so, they will not come out and the only way to achieve a clear finish is to remove the glass. It's a big hassle but if you just layed it down it's not fully cured and will come up fairly easily with a heat gun.
    Last edited by Dusty Yevsky; 08-29-2018 at 12:42 PM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Rather than being "unfilled glass weave" the white spots are more like filled spots where every spare micron of filler has been removed - plus just a tad more, exposing the tops of the fibers (which are still saturated, but scratched). Most of the time, the varnish will turn them back to clear, even without adding more fill, so it's hard to say without seeing it in the flesh if the problem really even is a problem. Fiberglass and/or resin or gelcoat always scratch to a whitish color. Sanding is a form of scratching, just in a more controlled manner. Once they have been smoothed with a fine enough grit, the application of varnish (or even temporarily, water) will make the white disappear and the surface go clear.

    This is perfectly normal and you want to use a high quality marine varnish which contains UV blockers to protect the epoxy from the sun. If they don't mention the UV filtering capability right on the can as part of their description, find a different brand that does. Also be aware that polishing the surface with really fine grits and wet-sanding prior to varnishing is often a mistake. Your varnish can will usually tell you what grit range they would like you to varnish over for best adhesion. If you ignore that and get it too smooth, your varnish may flake off. Some modern varnishes and clear coats also have a maximum coating thickness guideline. The old days style of lots and lots of coats of spar varnish won't work with some modern coatings and causes them to be unstable and crack. It's always worth the time to carefully read the instructions, just in case there are any surprises there.

    If the resin was turning white before any sanding at all was done on the boat, then you have a mysterious situation of some sort going on. Prime suspects are always going to be UV exposure of unprotected resin while the boat was partially done and in storage, or excessive moisture exposure while the resin was hardening, which can tend to fog it. It is unlikely that it would be any sort of mixing problem, as those usually end up with resin which doesn't harden properly and stays soft. If you can sand it (which you have obviously been able to do) then mixture problems aren't likely an issue.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Quote Originally Posted by Reel-Break View Post
    Yea the first and second coats the boat was very nice looking then 3rd coat went to bed rushed out to find dull. The bottom half of the boat is great shiny I don`t know what happened to the top.
    It doesn't sound like the white spots showed up after sanding, as the OP says above. I'm also thinking that it may be some kind of moisture entrapment. I had that happen once when I was epoxying a boat outside just before sundown. The impending dew co-mingled with the wet epoxy and created white patches. The cure was to leave it alone. The moisture seemed to work it's way out as the epoxy cured and after a few days the white patches disappeared. They did look a little different from the OP pictures

  20. #20
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    You could always stick it out in the sun for a day or two and see if the white diminishes. It's UV exposure, but not enough to kill it if it's just a day or two. I had one once where the strips had been stapled and when the resin was applied all the staple holes started leaking out bright green stuff. This was way back, early 1970s in the polyester resin days. It turned out that the staples were stuck together into their sticks for the gun with some sort of bright green lacquer. A little bit of this flaked off, inside the holes and when the resin hit it, it liquefied and started bleeding into the resin.

    Luckily, the green stuff faded after a week or so of sun exposure, but I coined a few new boatbuilding terms while I was applying the glass and watching the oozing green dots.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Sent the pics to nick where I purchased plans from he thinks it was the 206 hardener and humidity.He suggested taking it all off redo dang don`t know about that. He suggested 207 if stay with west system. Thanks for all the advice. Will post the results of what I decide and do.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    If you choose to replace the glass, get a cheap heat gun from Harbor Freight.
    That and a scraper will remove the glass/ epoxy quite quickly and make it easy to sand out the wood to prepare for re-glassing.

    It is not very hard, once you decide.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Quote Originally Posted by Reel-Break View Post
    Sent the pics to nick where I purchased plans from he thinks it was the 206 hardener and humidity.He suggested taking it all off redo dang don`t know about that. He suggested 207 if stay with west system. Thanks for all the advice. Will post the results of what I decide and do.
    So... my advice was not so bad after all .

  24. #24
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Everyone here likes it when their advice wins - is more accurate - works.

    Or all three.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    No, it is still bad advice. I'd think very seriously about trying to take the glass off or sand it way down. Epoxy is not totally moisture proof, so I would give it a chance to work its way out in the sun before attempting a "fix" which is very likely to ruin what you have done so far. Epoxy/fiberglass does not come off of soft cedar without a fight - heat gun or not. You'll get plenty of advice from folks here, many of whom have never built a stripper

  26. #26
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    20180906_194826_resized.jpgSanded and got down real close to glass put on another coat of epoxy. Still not 100 percent what I wanted but Iam much more pleased with the results. Thanks to all who assisted.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    That looks to me like the first coat of epoxy onto the glass didn't soak into the glass properly.
    Would you call it starved fiberglass or some such. You might have squeegeed with a bit too much force.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: strip kayak top side turned dull and white

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    No, it is still bad advice. I'd think very seriously about trying to take the glass off or sand it way down. Epoxy is not totally moisture proof, so I would give it a chance to work its way out in the sun before attempting a "fix" which is very likely to ruin what you have done so far. Epoxy/fiberglass does not come off of soft cedar without a fight - heat gun or not. You'll get plenty of advice from folks here, many of whom have never built a stripper

    Fretting and sanding and wondering can take a lot of hours and is tiring. Remove the glass with a heat gun. It will be done in 30 minutes. It is VERY fast and EASY. Then you can glass it transparently.

    Take the boat outside! Heat an edge and lift the glass with a putty knife. Then grab the glass with pliers, heat and pull. Be patient, go slowly, when the heat is right the glass just comes up easily, don't pull harder or you could pull up wood. Take your time and you'll remove only the glass and you'll leave the wood coated with epoxy. Sandy lightly, not into bare wood. If you expose bare wood you'll have a dark halo around that spot when coated with new epoxy. Apply a new and beautifully transparent glass layer. And you will have learned a few new things.

    Then learn how to get a transparent glass wet out here - http://www.laughingloon.com/epoxy.html


    All the best,
    Rob Macks
    Laughing Loon Custom Canoes & Kayaks
    http://www.laughingloon.com/
    207-549-3531


    “Persistent people begin their success where others end in failures.” - Edward Eggleston

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