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Thread: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

  1. #1
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    Default Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Here is a video review of the Pogo's (French Sailboat manufacturer) "Loxo 32" - https://www.mby.com/videos/new-boats...loxo-32-review

    Not a wooden boat but an interesting design for those who prefer to burn the least diesel possible.

    Its been a while since I looked in depth at efficient cruiser designs, does anyone know of comparable designs in wood (recent ones please. I am familiar with the works of Atkins, Hand, Farmer, Garden et al)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Designer & fellow Forumite Tad Roberts has some interesting high-efficiency designs: http://www.tadroberts.ca/
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Nifty boat.

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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Didnt Tad sketch something up as the Forveux Straights commuter? Some years ago if i recall. I saw this last November when it was launched. One would think there would be a queue for this kind of boat, obviously quite capable of going anywhere around Europe at affordable (for some) prices.



    A smaller version around 8m would be cheaper berthing and possible towing option. I like the minimalism, it has enough to do the job, and no more, which is why its as efficient as it is.
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 08-28-2018 at 07:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    I remember seeing the original back in the early '80's. Energy 48 by Arthur Martin in Kittery, Maine.

    https://www.proboat.com/2018/07/ener...power-cruiser/

    http://www.new.arthuremartin.com/ima...nergy%2048.pdf

    [IMG][/IMG]

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    ^ Thats a great boat, just like a few of Tads boats, but the market does not want to pay for the extra length, or rather, does not want the marina and berthing/storage charges that is charged. If everyone charged by the square foot, things would change dramatically, i think.

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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Yes I've corresponded with both Tad and Micheal (and others) about possible designs, but have never been able to "hit the mark" with the right "solution" that motivates me to initiate a build (either by myself or a yard).

    The Foveaux Strait Commuter thread proved (to me) just how hard it is to align ones compromises enough to commission a design.

    I have the utmost respect for Designers who are able to lead clients through the whole process from concept to completion.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    And there in lies the problem, what exactly do you need it to do, and what are you prepared to give up to achieve it? For myself, choosing to be able to launch and retrieve from a trailer has forced a dramatic shift in thinking of what can be done within a limited draft. Giving up the "security" of a large chunk of inert metal on a deep keel under the boat, and other options to achieve righting and stability have been interesting.
    As an example similar to the Loxo, it was calculated that 40hp would drive a Dudly Dix 26 at double figures, but you still retain a hull shape that can sail. Though seeing how that Loxo pitched in a seaway, there would be a tremendous amount of strain and shock loads on a rig, perhaps more than usual for a shallow bodied hull.
    Was your criteria the same as your original? Hard to argue that a boat like the Loxo would not fulfill most of your requirements. Cold moulded version on stringers or aluminium?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Nigel Irens Greta and Wilhelmina are interesting boats of the efficient hull type.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    People figured out optimum length to beam ratio's for low hp or even horse/ ox power efficiency along time ago...

    But who exactly was it? UK canals appeared 250 years ago but canal's look to appear about 2000 or so years ago in Europe. Before that in Egypt and the Pharaohs on the Nile, and before that in what was Mesopotamia pulling agriproduce around controlled irrigation channels with oxen i think.

    Length to beam ratio's 6-8:1 here. Which is found to be optimum range.




    However modern construction methods are also providing optimum length to displacement ratio's for bigger boats, getting to where canoes had already been for some time.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 08-29-2018 at 04:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Using the ratios of British canal boats is a bad place to find optimum design criteria. These boats are restricted by other far more important and practical considerations than efficiency.
    Tom L

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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Lock size is the big consideration for the UK canal boats. It is interesting to try to steer then into a lock with any crosswind. Some of the old ones are very interesting.
    Great photo.

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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    ^ Youse guys are dancing around the fundamental issue - different horses for different courses. Ultimate efficiency on a stillwater will look a whole lot different from a high-efficiency hull for rough water. One size does not fit all. Define your needs and desires and the conditions of use carefully, and go from there.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Weren't the canal boat dimensions based on lock width and length? Also they tend to operate at very low speeds.
    Being able to do 12-15 knots in a decent chop cheaply and comfortably would be a perfect combination for me.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Michael is absolutely correct in that a design for optimum performance (did not say optimum efficiency, whatever that is) is dependent on use the hull is to be put to.

    The canal boat speed is not a chosen parameter but is dictated by the canal width and depth is is to be used in. Try to drive one too fast in the narrow English canals and you will drive the thing to the bottom and flood the countryside. Only a slight exaggeration. Lock dimensions, bridges and tunnels are all infrastructures that limit canal boat dimensions. Not an expert on canal boats but did spend some time on them as a bare boat tourist and became interested in their characteristics and the canal system. A narrowboat visited my town on the ICW a few years ago and in discussions with the owners, found that they are not at all well suited to even moderately rough water although it did cross the channel to Europe once. They used that experience to make a decision to ship it back to England.

    This is the story of that boat: https://www.amazon.com/Narrow-Dog-Ca.../dp/038534208X
    Tom L

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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    The canals were designed for the canal boats to operate in. Not the other way around. Connecting inland cites of industry (often water mills up a valley) with the coast. They had to carry heavy loads efficiently.

    Length to beam ratio is one factor of several. But its an important factor: a similar length to beam ratio on that canal boat will be found in Turbina from a century ago, Greta from last year or a south american Indian's powered canoe for that matter.

    More 'modern' performance - from displacement (canal boat) into semi displacement speeds (Turbina/ Greta) - comes from also having correct length to displacement ratio and still tailoring what then becomes less important like prismatic, lcb and aft sections when something is fundmentally made long and thin.

    Length to beam is a measurably fundamental, common and over riding factor connecting that canal boat, Greta or a south american Indian powered canoe - to make them efficient.

    If marina's charged only on displacement not LOA and if racing didn't rate by length...

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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    If marina's charged only on displacement not LOA and if racing didn't rate by length...
    I do get this point, having paid on the LOA basis for many years. Of course, any boat I can afford to have built, I can afford the dockage for. After all, its a small thing in the grand scheme. And, when examined closely, it is really only the difference in cost between dockage / service for one craft versus dockage/ service for another.One would be paying most of the total cost for services in any event.

    Kevin
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Its interesting what drives folks thinking, down here all our boats are on swing moorings, so there is no penalty (besides the first construction cost) for any size boat. In my current location its actually "free", we just lay a mooring and go for it.

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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    I haven't been able to find a lines plan of the Loxo but here is a link to a model that shows a little more detail https://abordage.com/custom-models/c...tom-model.html

    Is the boat built with "warped panels" (the bow panels look to have too much twist to be developed) or am I not reading the photos right??

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Foster Price View Post
    Its interesting what drives folks thinking, down here all our boats are on swing moorings, so there is no penalty (besides the first construction cost) for any size boat. In my current location its actually "free", we just lay a mooring and go for it.
    Almost enough reason to move to NZ right there.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Almost enough reason to move to NZ right there.
    Haha - what else will it take, nothing better than new citizens from the good ole USA - I love hearing them (as republicans i.e. citizens of the republic) at the Citizenship ceremony swearing allegiance to the Queen !!

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    "More 'modern' performance - from displacement (canal boat) into semi displacement speeds (Turbina/ Greta) - comes from also having correct length to displacement ratio and still tailoring what then becomes less important like prismatic, lcb and aft sections when something is fundmentally made long and thin."

    Accolade, a 38' Monk bridge-deck cruiser from 1948 was taken down from her 8-cylinder 150hp Packard original engine to an Isuzu 4GB1, a definite alteration to her original speed requirements. I wonder how she would compare on an interior volume / miles per gallon basis with this new design. I can get 15 knots from her at times but it requires a favorable 7 knot current for that. / Jim

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Foster Price View Post
    I haven't been able to find a lines plan of the Loxo but here is a link to a model that shows a little more detail https://abordage.com/custom-models/c...tom-model.html

    Is the boat built with "warped panels" (the bow panels look to have too much twist to be developed) or am I not reading the photos right??
    From what i read, the boat was spat out from a computer on the basis of having the best liquid dynamics. Building in composite which is their speciality, they do not have to consider developed panel shape. You could cold mould it.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    That's interesting!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Nifty boat.
    I like it. It reminds me of a Sneakeasy.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    If I was going to build a motorcruiser that will go far on very little fuel I think I would try to get somewhere near the lines of this boat.

    They say she was built in Skaftung soon after the second world war. Most likely as a herring drifter working offshore in Bottenhavet. She was about 30 feet long and built to carry heavy cotton nets and a cargo of fish. Mainly she was a motor boat but she was at least built to carry an auxillary rig to get her home in case the engine failed. The open hold was in the middle. In the stern she had the engine room with a hatch in the top for the helmsman who would sit with his shoulders and arms above steering by a tiller. In the bow she had sleeping quarters for her crew.
    She was also used for sealhunting offshore in the pack ice but her hull shape was unsuitable for that use and she got some damage to her planking.

    However..... the interresting part of the story. Her main propulsion was a single cylinder Wickström engine manufactured around 1915 give or take a cuple of years. I cannot read the stamped numbers on the photo but it was certainly either 8 or 10 hp. They say the motor was big enough to power her at a nice displacement speed for days on end.

    I took theese photos and a few others in 1998 a few years before she was cut up for firewood.





    By the way:
    When I was in my late teens I had a 22 foot doubleender of a slimmer variety. Fitted with a 10 hp Bukh. I hardly ever used more than half throttle as that was her hull speed. She made just over 5 knots comfortably and burned well under one litre of diesel an hour. A pretty good fuel economy I would say even with an oversize motor.
    Both boat and motor still exist and are kept under roof but she is in dire need of a rebuild and hasn't been in the water for 16 years.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by heimlaga; 09-02-2018 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Adding more facts
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    If you want a look at modern efficient powerboat designs, I would suggest looking at the Dashew FPB series at setsail.com. Serious ocean going machines. There is also another NZ built boat originally called an Artnautica 58, but I believe the design by. NZ based Finnish designer was brought in house by Dickey boats. http://www.dickeyboats.com/boats/cus...er-New-Zealand

    neither are my aesthetic, but both are really interesting in terms of long range cruising ability.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Anyone ever take the lines off that hull?



    clearly upto waterline displacement speed, a heavy boat can have its advantages. The Loxo has an advantage of having a high cruising speed. With it fold down transom, it might even be usefull for hauling seals aboard.....

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser





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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Anyone ever take the lines off that hull?
    Unfortunately not but I rekon her shape could be pretty much reconstructed by someone who knows the local boat building tradition in Skaftung as I have pictures of her from many angles. In 1998 I was just a boy of 17 without the skill to take her lines though I recognized her as being exceptional and tried to document her the best I could. I should have her dimensions written down somewhere if I could find that piece of paper.
    She seems to be essentially a sailing treseglar hull (a now extinct and never properly documented sailing herring drifter) redesigned just enough to make her a good powerboat with a small engine.
    To my knowledge all surviving boats of this type today are much more modern designs with deeper and wider hulls built for big engines.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    Thats a pity. I would love to see more photos if possible, either posted on another thread for everyone to see, or via email, as and whenever. The rake and planking aft is completely different to anything i have seen here in SWeden. Looks as though it would have been easy to plank.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    I will try.... remind me if I forget it.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    I love this sort of thinking, though I still think a lightweight hydroplane or semi hydroplane is the way to go.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    The Volga Hydroplanes, are what I assume using lightweight techniques could be extremely efficient at lower speeds. Check at the zero wake from these.

    http://www.volga-hydrofoil.net/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0m3r_4lqkA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqFkPAtkRr0

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Interesting "efficient" motor cruiser

    And this to me seems to be from the "Ministry of the bleedin obvious" ie make use of the rising wake behind to make forward progress, using lift generated within it. If you can wake-board or surf behind a boat there is forward momentum to be used!

    https://www.iims.org.uk/hull-vane-en...gh-technology/

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