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Thread: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogeniac View Post
    Yeah, good point. My house roof, which must be 2000 SF was about $35K, and that included removing the old tile roof, re-sheathing, and then doing the entire standing seam roof and gutters. By that standard, the 400SF pre-sheathed houseboat roof should be about $7K. I'd go for that.

    I'm a bit unclear how they would bend the standing seam though. Once it is bent up in the rolling machine, I suspect to makes the panel pretty stiff...

    Question answered!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlTPO6B4M98
    My brother was project Mgr. on a reroofing of a barn here in VT. Thing is it was built by the Webbs in the late 1800s - Mrs Webb was a Vanderbuilt. 3 acres of copper. I don't have a pic of the other side, but it has eyebrow windows that required very curved sheets.



    It's called the Breeding Barn because that's where the horses lived & were bred. One of the design specs was that a 30 piece orchestra be able to play at each end of the barn & not conflict. Yes, it's rather large... The center entrance on the right in the pic is about 12 ft. wide.

    This is the Farm Barn. The turret in the back and the ventilator roofs are standing seam.



    Sorry if this was too much thread drift.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    My brother was project Mgr. on a reroofing of a barn here in VT. Thing is it was built by the Webbs in the late 1800s - Mrs Webb was a Vanderbuilt. 3 acres of copper. I don't have a pic of the other side, but it has eyebrow windows that required very curved sheets.



    It's called the Breeding Barn because that's where the horses lived & were bred. One of the design specs was that a 30 piece orchestra be able to play at each end of the barn & not conflict. Yes, it's rather large... The center entrance on the right in the pic is about 12 ft. wide.

    This is the Farm Barn. The turret in the back and the ventilator roofs are standing seam.



    Sorry if this was too much thread drift.
    Holy copper roof!!!
    Tom

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Looks like there are a number of metal roofing companies that do curved roofs, so I am going mohave a look at that.
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    That's like $2M worth of copper scrap!
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogeniac View Post
    That's like $2M worth of copper scrap!
    Luckily for them, this was done before copper skyrocketed. It's a place called Shelburne Farms - a nonprofit that does a lot of educational stuff.

    https://shelburnefarms.org/ if anyone is interested.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    This being a houseboat, how does one erect staging/scaffolding to gain access to enable work on the eaves or roof that will overhang the deck? You can't just use an extension ladder.

    Jeff

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    At the risk of sounding really dumb, is it possible to do it like a boat deck or cabin top? That it, dynel or glass or what have you, and epoxy, coated with paint. Seems one of the elastomeric roof paints over sheathed sheathing would be slick, eh?

    I mean, it IS a boat, right?

    Or, does it have to have a house type roof?

    Peace,
    Full Of GREAT Ideas

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    At the risk of sounding really dumb, is it possible to do it like a boat deck or cabin top? That it, dynel or glass or what have you, and epoxy, coated with paint. Seems one of the elastomeric roof paints over sheathed sheathing would be slick, eh?

    I mean, it IS a boat, right?

    Or, does it have to have a house type roof?

    Peace,
    Full Of GREAT Ideas
    Good questions. It does NOT have to be a house roof. I am now leaning toward a curved corrugated steel roof, since that is what the other buildings at the Island have. I have also considered the elastomeric membrane approach. For now, I am going to research the curved corrugated approach.
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    This being a houseboat, how does one erect staging/scaffolding to gain access to enable work on the eaves or roof that will overhang the deck? You can't just use an extension ladder.

    Jeff
    Well, you can do it with a really long ladder that has mud feet on the bottom...

    Or maybe using a balloon suspended scaffold! Yeah that's the ticket!....

    I plan to do it from the top. Adding the curved pieces is easy. Extending the eaves should be OK, and while a little challenging, adding the fascia should be OK from the top.

    S
    Now is a good time!


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  10. #45
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Can you nose the boat in on either side of the float house to use as a work platform? Might be easier than hanging over the side of the roof.
    -Jim

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    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    I reckon I'd be building a deck up top. Good real estate.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogeniac View Post
    Good questions. It does NOT have to be a house roof. I am now leaning toward a curved corrugated steel roof, since that is what the other buildings at the Island have. I have also considered the elastomeric membrane approach. For now, I am going to research the curved corrugated approach.
    I think a curved roof in small corrugations could look good.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    I think a curved roof in small corrugations could look good.
    Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. True Shanty style, while still being functional. A full-on architectural metal roof would have been a bit too fancy.

    The other benefit is that I think I can get the panels pre curved and pre cut, so installing them is super easy.. No need for special purpose seam rollers and such. MUCH easier on the top of a boat in the water...

    Cheers,
    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogeniac View Post
    True Shanty style ...
    For that, up the delta, you just want a double-wide

    Okay, you can blow this idea right out of the water but it is California ... spanish tile roof, white stucco walls, and a little entry porch ...

    You're in the area, hop off 101 right before Hutchinson's in Greenbrae and walk out the boardwalk. You can ignore the keepout signs, they're all carpetbaggers anyhow. There's a few cool on-the-water ideas out there. They live on stilts instead of floating but still.

    p.s. I notice you didn't mention to the naifs here that a major attraction of the delta is the buxom bimbos in bikinis water-skiing. Oh gosh honey, I had no idea it was so busy up here on weekends !

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    I think 2x4's cut on a curve will be to flimsy to handle for the ceiling. I would go with laminated beams. That gentle curve could be done with 1/2" to 3/4" thick lams.

    For cooling, maybe a water to air heat exchanger could be rigged. Pump water from the greatest possible depth, even if it is only 6 feet or so, through a coil inside with a fan circulating air over the coil.

    Oh Yeah, we need more pictures. Especially a full shot of the outside.
    Last edited by ulav8r; 08-18-2018 at 06:58 PM. Reason: Need more pictures. Darn typo.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Can you nose the boat in on either side of the float house to use as a work platform? Might be easier than hanging over the side of the roof.
    I got a 14í x 3í punt youíre welcome to use as a portable stage, in case Jimís idea is a go.

    Peace,
    Robert

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    I have done a few corrugated roofs, and have ordered the sheets in up to 40 foot lengths. You would be surprised how much they will just curve without doing anything. If the corrogations are "short" it will bend quite a bit. You can just spring them into place. Off hand I would say 3-4" in 20 feet, no problem, maybe even more, I have a few 20 foot sheets stacked out behind the barn. I could try one...
    Flat corrugated roofs are really noisy when it is raining... the steeper the pitch the quieter.
    You are going to use copper, right?

    Dr Google says;
    http://www.stramit.com.au/sites/defa...sign_guide.pdf

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I got a 14’ x 3’ punt you’re welcome to use as a portable stage, in case Jim’s idea is a go.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Thanks! WE have a floating work platform we can use. It isn't very stable, So, I am not sure how useful it will be. There is a dock on one side. So, getting not he roof is not an issue
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I have done a few corrugated roofs, and have ordered the sheets in up to 40 foot lengths. You would be surprised how much they will just curve without doing anything. If the corrogations are "short" it will bend quite a bit. You can just spring them into place. Off hand I would say 3-4" in 20 feet, no problem, maybe even more, I have a few 20 foot sheets stacked out behind the barn. I could try one...
    Flat corrugated roofs are really noisy when it is raining... the steeper the pitch the quieter.
    You are going to use copper, right?

    Dr Google says;
    http://www.stramit.com.au/sites/defa...sign_guide.pdf
    Yeah, I was thinking maybe 1/2 inch copper, to be sure the rain noise is minimized.

    Interesting about spring curving. Might work. I might get a long piece of galvalume to see if that can fit that curve
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Scott, just a suggestion - take a look at post # 311 in the thread " Building another barge? " by Waltwood for another approach to a barge / houseboat roof system.



    Rick

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I've sailed right by there many, many times.
    Ice cream, a bar and a shower is nearby...
    (I noticed the snowman up in the tree is gone, he must have finally melted!)
    Missed this earlier.

    There is an ice machine, but no ice cream or bar (unless you mean at 6 PM, when whoever is there sets up the impromptu serve yourself bar..

    I'll ask about the snow man..

    Cheers,

    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Have you thought about a deck as a roof? If you covered the curved roof with 1/2" plywood, glass cloth set in epoxy you would have a sufficient base. Add a ladder and a railing and you are in business.

    Then again, I am not familiar with the area, that may be gauche.

    Cheers
    Dennis

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Hi folks!

    It's been quite a while. Susan and I have used the houseboat as-is (mostly) for nearly a year now. It's great fun!

    We ended up with a fairly major setback. Apparently back in the mists of time (1970's), these houseboats were re-classified from boats to "floating homes". Under that classification they fall under the San Joaquin Community Development Department (which, apparently, includes the building department).

    An inspector came out the the Island last week, and red-tagged all of the houseboats. Apparently they were never permitted under the building department (because they were BOATS!), and they are now non-conforming. If we try to get permits for them (there are six of them), then apparently they will need to conform to 2019 CA building codes...Seems pretty unrealistic for a houseboat built in 1966. In addition the electrical, water and septic hookups are all non-conforming. There are numerous other details that make resolving these issues as a "floating home" effectively impossible.

    I think the way out of this puzzle is to convert the houseboat into a "vessel". This means it needs to be able to move itself, have self contained septic (i.e. a holding tank), and a non-permanent electrical hook-up (or no electrical hookup). I'll then register it with the CA DMV and get CF numbers. At that point it can be docked at the Island and the building department has no jurisdiction.

    The houseboat has some other issues that I could use some of your thoughts on.

    The structure of the platform is a simple lattice of 2x10 floor joists with ply tops and bottoms. The joists run laterally across the boat platform. The original boat had long plywood pontoons that this platform sat on. About 8 years ago some moron changed these out (on all the boats) for an array of rectangular, foam filled, poly floats, about 4x3x3 feet each. The problem with the is that the joist ladder platform has no longitudinal rigidity (fore and aft) by itself. The rigidity originally provided by the pontoons is now provided only by the walls of the house. This might not be that bad, except the walls don't go out to the ends. So the open decks at each end now bend up about 1-2 inches. This causes water to run TOWARD the front and rear ends of the house...

    My plan to remedy this, and to also make the houseboat more navigable, is to go back to pontoons.

    In doing this, I plan to extend the front and rear open decks so that I can add a helm station up front, and an outboard motor well in back. I plan to use a hydraulic steering system and use a small outboard in a motor-well. I think I can bury the holding tank and a small fuel tank under the aft deck as well, so fueling and septic pump-out are easy and accessible.

    The rest is just re-plumbing the water system (which it needed anyway), and adding in a 12 volt electrical system (which it needed anyway) for water pressure pumps and such.

    Here is the basic plan. The red stuff is new, overlaid on the old plan view.



    Once concern is dealing with what will now be 50 foot pontoons. I can get these in aluminum, but they are pretty expensive, and really difficult to ship. I found these interesting modular poly pontoons that seem like a nice solution. Remember, this boat will only travel about 20 miles on the river every few years, so the pontoons don't need to be super fancy.

    http://www.plasticpontoon.com/36inch.html

    Does anyone have any experience with these?

    Any other advice?

    For example, can I run the hydraulic helm controls 30+ feet back to the motor well? How large an outboard do I need to make about 5 knots in this barge?

    Thanks!!

    Scott
    Last edited by Cogeniac; 02-02-2019 at 10:07 AM.
    Now is a good time!


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  24. #59
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Watching with interest! Looks like a great project!

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    The houseboats in Stock Island (right next to Key West) seem to be required to be "mobile". I don't know how far they have to move, but they mostly seem to have beat up old 10HP outboards. However, I bet they only go 1 or 2 knots max.

    They are conventional (no pontoons) houseboats. I'd think the pontoons would make motoring far more efficient.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    No experience, but that looks like an excellent solution. You may be able to get a discount if the whole group opts for a bulk purchase.

    Perhaps it will be easier and less expensive to laminate 3 1/2" by 4 1/2" pressure treated beams in place from 2 x 4 with epoxy. Then you won't have to ship 50' aluminum angle iron.

    Rather than an outboard in a well I would consider just cutting a notch in the after edge of the deck. That would not be so much in the way.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    You might want to investigate a small water source heat pump for cooling. We had two on a Hunter sailboat we owned. One took care of the refrigerator and the other cooled the boat. The advantage was that they extracted waste heat through a water cooled heat exchange. Our ocean temperature was about 70F in the summer and 59f in the winter. These worked great and didn't use a lot of electricity.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    My idea is to build a new barge hull around the existing boat. Would require taking the current houseboat out of the water though.
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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    You might do better finding a pontoon maker and trucking 'em back yourself, depending on how many you'll be buying at one time. Best of luck -- alway enjoy sailing or motoring past Grindstone Joe's!
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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  30. #65
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    I don't have any pontoon advice but I do have some experience butting heads with building departments. One thing you can count on with those folks is they aren't about to tell you things that are to your advantage if they want you to do something else. The codes are immensely complex documents and are also chock-a-block full of exceptions and special circumstances. In that light, I would suggest that you consult with someone who is very familiar with the codes and is sympathetic to your situation. This person is likely an architect and not necessarily one from a prestigious firm. I'm guessing that the local building department is wrong and your structure doesn't have to comply with current codes. Perhaps you've already been fighting this battle.....

    Good luck with the project no matter how you proceed.

    Jeff

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Scott, just a couple thoughts here, --- in his ' building another barge' thread, Waltwood talks about some 30+ foot motor control cables. Can you possibly use four 25' foot pontoons and link them together ? Another thought is if the houseboat thread by 'Boat Fan' is still out there somewhere - I seem to recall he built the pontoons onsite ( the thread may have gone away)

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    You might do better finding a pontoon maker and trucking 'em back yourself, depending on how many you'll be buying at one time. Best of luck -- alway enjoy sailing or motoring past Grindstone Joe's!
    Give me some notice so I'm there, and drop by sometime!
    Now is a good time!


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  33. #68
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    It looks like the CA DMV classifies anything that floats as a vessel EXCEPT: seaplanes, cable ferries (yeah, really!), and floating dwellings that "Does not have and is not designed to have a mode of power of its own, (b) is dependent for utilities upon a continuous utility linkage to a source originating on shore, and (c) has a permanent, continuous hookup to a shoreside sewage system."

    So it seems that if we go to a marine shore power system with batteries and an inverter to power the boat when it is unplugged, install a composting toilet or holding tank, and attach an outboard motor mount to the back of the boat, it meets these criteria (or rather it fails to meet the DMV exception, and thus is considered a "vessel").

    This is without the pontoon conversion. However, I still plan to do that conversion to fix the reverse "hogging" that we are seeing with the floats.

    Scott
    Now is a good time!


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  34. #69
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogeniac View Post
    It looks like the CA DMV classifies anything that floats as a vessel EXCEPT: seaplanes, cable ferries (yeah, really!), and floating dwellings that "Does not have and is not designed to have a mode of power of its own, (b) is dependent for utilities upon a continuous utility linkage to a source originating on shore, and (c) has a permanent, continuous hookup to a shoreside sewage system."

    So it seems that if we go to a marine shore power system with batteries and an inverter to power the boat when it is unplugged, install a composting toilet or holding tank, and attach an outboard motor mount to the back of the boat, it meets these criteria (or rather it fails to meet the DMV exception, and thus is considered a "vessel").

    This is without the pontoon conversion. However, I still plan to do that conversion to fix the reverse "hogging" that we are seeing with the floats.

    Scott
    OK - I give up. If a cable ferry is not a boat, just what is it?

    Ain't bureaucrats something?

    Anyway - a temp shore power hookup should be no big deal, but how do you pump the waste tank?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Delta Shanty Boat Transformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    OK - I give up. If a cable ferry is not a boat, just what is it?

    Ain't bureaucrats something?

    Anyway - a temp shore power hookup should be no big deal, but how do you pump the waste tank?
    Near term I am going to use a Porta-Potti, to get the Vessel classification. Longer term, I am going to bury a holding tank in the back deck, and have the guy that pumps the Island septics pump it out once a month or so..

    Yeah, cable ferry is not a boat, and a floating house form 1966 needs to comply with 2019 Title 24 codes.. Sheesh!

    S
    Now is a good time!


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