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Thread: Simple and easy build and sail

  1. #1
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    Default Simple and easy build and sail

    Okay help me out here. I've had the Weekender out of the water for way too long and to be honest I either need to invest time and money getting her back in shape or move on to the next one. The Weekender was fun to build and sail but I built her on the cheap and really there are a lot of strings to pull for such a small boat.

    So I'm think that between now and spring I build something small (up to 2 adults and/or maybe 1 adult and 2 kids) or maybe just a solo boat. I definitely want less strings to pull and easy to set up and launch and all that good stuff.

    Looked at a few plans here and there and even looked at Sunfish pictures.

    Here are some thoughts

    Glen L 11' Topper



    https://www.boatdesigns.com/11-Toppe.../products/466/

    Or maybe a Glen-L 12



    https://www.boatdesigns.com/12-Glen-.../products/440/

    Or maybe something as simple as the Glen-L 10



    https://www.boatdesigns.com/10-Glen-.../products/438/

    I really want to get back out on the water and want something simple and easy that works well in light airs on lake waters.

    Any suggestions on design or ideas appreciated.

    Quick, simple, well designed and fairly decent looking is what I"m after.

    Chad
    There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

    Three Little Birds
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  2. #2
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    Default

    You can pick up a 22 foot or smaller glass boat with trailer, usually for less than $1,000 and still find plenty of wood work and make you happy.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    if BUILD is in your criteria then a MAYFLY 14(solo or 2-up) is easy to build w/ 1-string to raise the sail and only 1-string to control the sail

    get Jim Michalak's book which includes plans and good build instructions w/ pics

    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/bb-bfbab.htm

    the Mayfly(14' & 16') has a proven track record having completed the Texas 200 many many times

    if using quality materials you can expect better longevity this time w/ minimal care(clean, bail, dry out & store out of the weather)

    if simply buy n sail is your goal a Sunfish or Force-5(along w/ MANY other designs) can be had for chump change that is lake ready condition on a trailer

    GOOD LUCK W/ YOUR QUEST

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Building is half the fun, but I don't want to spend a ton of time building like I did with the weekend. I looked at the Mayfly and while it looks nice I know for sure I don't want a lug rig. The first boat I built was sprit rig and I wasn't a fan of it. I don't like the spar up high and then having it lay across the mast on the opposite tack. I like a gaff rig but for a small boat it can just be a pain, the Weekender showed me that.

    For those that haven't seen it, here is me and my Weekender from a few years back.



    Chad
    There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

    Three Little Birds
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Oh and I'm not ready to invest the time and effort into completing my Meerkat/Dragonship design. That is a long term project.

    Chad
    There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

    Three Little Birds
    Love is My Religion

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Here is my first boat.



    Chad
    There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

    Three Little Birds
    Love is My Religion

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Welsfoeds’s Saturday Night Special stable, fast, easy build, and less strings attached. but there are many different designs in this range.

    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/jw-sns.htm



    F349FDB0-8440-44A5-B305-DDB11942E30F.jpeg
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Matt I want to get away from a spar up high, more than likely some form or fashion of a Bermuda rigged boat with or without a jib, not sure on that, but really don't want a spar up high.

    Chad
    There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

    Three Little Birds
    Love is My Religion

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    http://www.selway-fisher.com/Cobles.htm

    12’-6” cobble, this has a Gunter rig. Not as simple as a single mast but at least it lowers as you reef. Fisher would most likely sing off on a Marconi I bet.

    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/jm-sneakerbox.htm

    Jim Michalak has a good number of small simple designs too. This Sneakbox looks like a good fun one, also check out his Puckup Pram. This sneakbox one has a lantern rig, that could be good for what you are thinking. Interesting, most of the modern designers aren’t putting Marconi rigs on their small boats. At least from what I have seen in the wooden boat selections.
    Last edited by Matt young; 08-13-2018 at 12:25 PM.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    If you have a fleet in the area, a Snipe might fit the bill and give you an outlet when you're tired of it.
    http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3162

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Would one of these fit the bill? https://www.streaker-class.org.uk/plans

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Core Sound 15 or 17
    or EC22
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    I built a Glen'L Topper years ago, it still lives. It was a good rowboat, tender, sailing dinghy, but I wouldn't say simple to build. It is (was?) multichine on stringers, which required planing two bevels on each stringer. I loved that boat, but If I were to build today I would build a skiff or sharpie type. If you want a quick build, consider Skin On Frame (SOF). Dave Gentry sells plans and kits that are quick to build and light. Also check CLC, Chesapeake Light Craft or other kits.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Core Sound 15 or 17
    or EC22
    Ooh, yeah. A CS 15 kit would go together quickly, and be fun to sail.

    Peace,
    Robert

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Do something in stitch and glue, too many of the Glen-L designs are built on chines. You could build a Goat Island Skiff and put a Laser rig on it, Laser practice sails are dirt cheap.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    build an outrigger, leeboard, rudder and mast or two for your canoe. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    . . . I want to get away from a spar up high, more than likely some form or fashion of a Bermuda rigged boat with or without a jib, not sure on that, but really don't want a spar up high.
    Bolger put his 59sq foot leg-o-mutton sail on a number of his designs. Off the top of my head, I think his Gypsy is likely the best of the lot, but others are OK as well, and easier/faster to build - Surf, June Bug, Cartopper, etc http://www.mcssl.com/store/hhpaysonc...ant-boat-plans
    Gypsy:

    JohnW has the right idea - you are not constrained to the designer's choice of rigs. The rig for those Bolger boats will work fine on a lot of other designs - with a little forethought - and is easy to build and rig.

    Dave

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Interesting to hear you are concerned about the weight of a yard and so opposed to a lug rig--especially since you say you want "less strings to pull" and "easy to set up"--I view those as prime virtues of the lug rig. Certainly simpler than a gaff or gunter rig.

    Short mast, especially compared to Bermuda rigs (simplifies set-up and trailering), only two strings, good performance (are you aware that the "bad" tack actually performs slightly better than the "good" tack?), and (if a balance lug) self-vanging and gentle gybing. And the wooden yard provides flotation to prevent the boat from turtling.

    Just what is it, exactly, that you don't like about having a spar on the top of the sail? I've never seen any negative consequences of it in my own experience.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Another vote for the CS15 kit. Quick build, good performance and it fits your other requirements.

    -Dave

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    Interesting, most of the modern designers aren’t putting Marconi rigs on their small boats. At least from what I have seen in the wooden boat selections.
    Outside of the wooden boat selections, EVERYONE is putting marconi rigs on their small boats. Arguably, there's more reason to go marconi with modern technology than there used to be. For example, it's easy to pick up a carbon mast weighing 4lb these days, for very little cash; I think I got two for free. If your topmast weighs a fraction of a pound, why bother to carry a much heavier rig just to allow you to reef that topmast?
    Has BigFella and SkyBlue on ignore.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    I like those Streakers that are posted above. Plans seem a little steep in price but I will investigate further. Lots of good idea posted here and I will continue to look into what I want.

    Couple of things mentioned above, I don't mind the multi chine, don't really want a flat bottom boat. Both the Weekender and the Sharpie 14 both were flat and I would like to try something maybe different. I could strip build a hull but that seems to drag on in my shop, but it does make a good hull. And no Paul no outriggers on my canoe. All I have is that 10' pack canoe now.

    I've had the gaff rigged on the weekender and I love the rig but I think works better for me on something larger. The SH-14 started out as a sprit and I converted it to a lug and it did okay, just not a fan of it. I guess that is my personal preference. I think the macroni rig is where I want to be. If I found a little Hobie around here cheap I might just go with that, but I do enjoy the build so keep the ideas coming and I will look into them all.

    Chad
    There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

    Three Little Birds
    Love is My Religion

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Outside of the wooden boat selections, EVERYONE is putting marconi rigs on their small boats. Arguably, there's more reason to go marconi with modern technology than there used to be. For example, it's easy to pick up a carbon mast weighing 4lb these days, for very little cash; I think I got two for free. If your topmast weighs a fraction of a pound, why bother to carry a much heavier rig just to allow you to reef that topmast?
    You make some good points here. I also think the modern square head sails are interesting, a modern version of the older gaffs. So it appears that the triangle is not the only solution.

    I was also thinking about carbon spars and masts, one for Marconi rigs but also to lighten up a lug spar. I have been using a balanced lug for the past 5 years on my canoe, I recently picked up a Marconi sail. Now I just need to build a good light weight mast, I don’t think I will be able to luck into one as you did. What do you mean its easy to get a carbon mast for little cash? From where? I will need to order one in the US, in my case. I will need a 14’er for the sail I am talking about. I am curious to experience the difference between the two different types of rigs on the same hull.
    Last edited by Matt young; 08-14-2018 at 12:57 PM.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    You might be surprised t how easy it is to find carbon tubes.Lots are made in the far East and while they may not be labelled "boat spars",they ought to work just fine.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    The SH-14 started out as a sprit and I converted it to a lug and it did okay, just not a fan of it. I guess that is my personal preference. I think the macroni rig is where I want to be. If I found a little Hobie around here cheap I might just go with that, but I do enjoy the build so keep the ideas coming and I will look into them all.
    Chad,

    I'd be interested in hearing if you have any specific things about lug rigs that make you not a fan. I don't have a lot of experience with modern rigs, so I'm sure I'm biased toward lug rigs and am missing some of the trade-offs associated. (Not an attempt to persuade you or debate you, but an honest effort to step outside my own biases for an objective analysis--I do find lug rigs fit my solo cruising needs admirably).

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Not sure if there is anything particular I could point my finger at and say that is the reason. I could say maybe it is because it don't point as well or maybe it because it has more spars. But really there is nothing specific and I really wouldn't rule it out I guess. Both boats I've built have had 4 sided sails, maybe I need to try something different, not sure. So maybe I shouldn't be so stuck in my thought process.

    Chad
    There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

    Three Little Birds
    Love is My Religion

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    Not sure if there is anything particular I could point my finger at and say that is the reason. I could say maybe it is because it don't point as well or maybe it because it has more spars. But really there is nothing specific and I really wouldn't rule it out I guess. Both boats I've built have had 4 sided sails, maybe I need to try something different, not sure. So maybe I shouldn't be so stuck in my thought process.

    Chad
    while I am a traditionalist for the most part of my time under sail, don't stop short of the B&B small boat designs with the cat ketch rig. If nothing else take a road trip to their shop and go on the water before investing a single dime and cut a piece of wood for any boat. That is your best "college degree" acquired on a weekend that you can get. YMMV


    If you want something that's already close to being finished or finished, check out this link or ask Alan about what he knows that may be for sale at a decent price, getting you on the water faster.
    http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/awpcp-m...b-classifieds/
    Last edited by erster; 08-15-2018 at 07:11 AM.
    Happy trails to you.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Chad, here'z a bit of reading for you

    https://www.storerboatplans.com/tuni...s-and-rigging/

    having observed lug sails in action(incl watching Wi-Tom in person & got pic to prove it) i can tell you that the lug sail can be your friend w/ a bit of understanding

    most nay-sayers don't understand how to tune them

    simplicity is their greatest advantage and once you understand how they work you might just change your way of thinking

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    I agree with what has been said here in regards to the simplicity of the lug. Very easy and fast to raise and lower also. Another point, you mentioned sailing light air lakes. I find with my 46 square foot balanced lug on a canoe, I can move along in the tiniest of breezes, almost imperceptible wind.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Quote Originally Posted by swoody126 View Post
    Chad, here'z a bit of reading for you

    https://www.storerboatplans.com/tuni...s-and-rigging/

    having observed lug sails in action(incl watching Wi-Tom in person & got pic to prove it) i can tell you that the lug sail can be your friend w/ a bit of understanding

    most nay-sayers don't understand how to tune them

    simplicity is their greatest advantage and once you understand how they work you might just change your way of thinking

    sw
    +1

    And I would add that while they are deceptively "simple" they require a more than simple understanding to "understand how they work"... there is not only the appropriate tensioning but also yard flex matched to the sail is also important. Once they are appropriately tuned and correctly mated to their hardware and spars, they go like hell.

    It's a thinking-sailor's rig which will punish or reward you depending on the mental effort you put in.

    Conversely, another vote for the BB cat-ketch thing. Great boats.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Indeed, very interesting thread

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    +1

    And I would add that while they are deceptively "simple" they require a more than simple understanding to "understand how they work"... there is not only the appropriate tensioning but also yard flex matched to the sail is also important. Once they are appropriately tuned and correctly mated to their hardware and spars, they go like hell.
    Amen to that. I ordered a sail from Dabbler Sails for my Alaska (boomless standing lug). Stuart Hopkins, the proprietor, has a good explanation of how to do a proper spar-bend test on his website--meaning the sail is designed specifically for YOUR particular sail's yard, with an appropriate amount of flex accounted for. I'm really happy with how his sail sets. This summer I managed to cover 10 miles (measured on GoogleEarth) in less than 90 minutes (16'+ waterline, I think). Granted, that was a broad reach, but the boat goes to windward, too.

    But there are other rigs that offer simplicity in different ways. The Sea Pearl is one, I'd say, with reefing just by rolling the sails around the masts. The Core Sound cat ketch rigs are simple, too. There are certainly other options than lug rigs.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    I bet the Streaker will outsail any of the boats mentioned in almost all conditions.Light to handle ashore and capable of good speed in a blow.The defenders of the lug rig and cat ketch might like to quote a Portsmouth Yardstick for their particular favourite to disprove my assertion.


  34. #34
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    Callsign and Wi-Tom have nailed it. Lugsails go like smoke and oakum once you have the rigging details right, but they are all about deployment.






    All of the boats in these pictures have lugs, and are cracking on, happy in their work. Once correctly set up, they are very powerful, though still simple in use.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Simple and easy build and sail

    John, I don’t disagree with you at all about the streaker being a high performance boat compared to the lug rigged boats that Callsign, Wi-Tom and I sail....I wouldn’t want to have a second person in one, though, and I wouldn’t think of trying to spend a week camp cruising one......If the OP intends to spend all his time daysailing solo at a waterfront home-base, the Streaker could be a really great choice. To sail with a group of friends out of one boat, or go have a picnic, or go dinghy cruising, other designs will offer other capabilities, and many designs which are fun and capable in different ways than the streaker have shown the lug rig can be a simple and effective rig.

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