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Thread: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Yes, the Republicans attacked hard, and unfairly.

    Pelosi and Reid failed to manage the process. Obama was foolish to cede them control over pace and tempo and content. Previous Speakers of the House would not have allowed the process chaos that Pelosi in particular created. All other things aside, she did not distinguish herself as a strong leader.

    The House will go Democratic. The Senate will almost certainly stay Republican. The Speaker of the House will be the leader of all opposition to President Trump. The Democrats need a cool-headed, reputation unimpaired, methodically agenda-managing badass in the Sepaker's chair. I personally don't see those characteristics in Congresswoman Pelosi.
    Reputation unimpaired? That will only last until they get power, then the attacks will start.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    That's where the "badass" part comes in.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Yes, the Republicans attacked hard, and unfairly.

    Pelosi and Reid failed to manage the process. Obama was foolish to cede them control over pace and tempo and content. Previous Speakers of the House would not have allowed the process chaos that Pelosi in particular created. All other things aside, she did not distinguish herself as a strong leader.

    The House will go Democratic. The Senate will almost certainly stay Republican. The Speaker of the House will be the leader of all opposition to President Trump. The Democrats need a cool-headed, reputation unimpaired, methodically agenda-managing badass in the Sepaker's chair. I personally don't see those characteristics in Congresswoman Pelosi.
    There isn't one of the 435 reps in the House right now that can manage either caucus the way you think it should be done. I think part of that is the fractious nature of the caucuses. Boehner benefited as minority leader from a united caucus; he couldn't control his majority.

    McConnell has done a fantastic job for his party, not sure about the nation.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    It's antithetic to what the Democratic Party is supposed to be. If people want to be rich as***les, they can be Republicans. Getting votes by telling the working class you are there to represent them, then selling them out to Wall Street is not cricket.

    It's not the right wing media, btw. Real Democrats (both of us) have despised her for decades.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    hahaha

    can't wait till ozna sees this one

    juts curious, on the border, is that really you rodb???
    No way it's Rod.

    The "is not cricket" reference leads me to believe that one of Blooie's socks is doing a Jim Henson...

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    Because she is OLD and WHITE... two things that the New Democratic party are very against.
    I am not a spring chicken myself but c'mon. 80 is not reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    leads me to believe
    You'll believe anything. Too bad about that.

    I got this far ...
    COMPREHENSIVE ENERGY LEGISLATION, which raised vehicle fuel efficiency standards (35 mpg by the year 2020) for the first time in 32 years, and making an historic commitment to American homegrown biofuels.
    So she's taking credit for the ethanol disaster ? Oh GREAT ! Let's burn food in our cars !

    As an aside, these much-praised whoa ! man, she be good ! CAFE increases don't cover pickemup trucks !

    Political theater. Worthless old hag, time to try on a new face. Can't be any worse.
    Last edited by on the border; 08-10-2018 at 08:50 PM.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid were inadequate leaders during the Obama administration. Obama deferred to Congress often on his signature legislation, and they failed to deliver. In particular, the deliberations over the Affordable Care Act were a train wreck. Its hard to imagine that shes learned new leadership skills.

    Today, Ms Pelosi is also a caricature for attack by Republicans.

    Democrats would be better served by a different leader in the House for both reasons.
    The delivered what they had the votes for. Once GOP got voted into majorites, what/how would you expect the dems to deliver?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    That's the long and the short of it for me.
    You may be right, but I am disappointed that the Dems fall for false attacks by the GOP. Pelosi's baggage, like Clinton's, if mostly undeserved. The right is very good at spreading lies. Dems are very poor at responding to them.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    It's antithetic to what the Democratic Party is supposed to be. If people want to be rich as***les, they can be Republicans. Getting votes by telling the working class you are there to represent them, then selling them out to Wall Street is not cricket.

    It's not the right wing media, btw. Real Democrats (both of us) have despised her for decades.
    Does her record not support her words?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Does her record not support her words?
    No, her record does not support her words. Look at her votes.

    Invade Iraq, yes. Hand over the farm to Goldman-Sachs, yes. The stupidly fraudulent ACA which solved nothing, not only yes but she was a big part of creating it. She just recently, while y'all were squealing about Mr Trump, went ahead and blew away what feeble protections the Barney Frank banking bill had. I can go verify that if necessary. If you check her voting record over the hundred years she's been in Congress, it is always in favor of the wrong people when it counts, but "populist" on things that don't matter.

    The vote to invade Iraq alone is enough to toss her ass out. Everyone who fell for that stupidity needs to go. We need people who are at least as intelligent as the average third-grader running the country.

    She is a bad lady. People like her are what destroyed the Democratic Party.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    Invade Iraq, yes.
    There never was a vote held to invade Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    We need people who are at least as intelligent as the average third-grader running the country.
    Trump isn't average.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    Real Democrats (both of us) have despised her for decades.
    Oh yes.. "real Democrats".. pray tell, what is a real Democrat? Last I remember, Democrats were never as tightly cohesive as the Republicans, their support comes from a wider range of groups all more or less looking for the same thing. Democrats have never walked lock step like the Republicans used to. There is a lot of room under the Dem umbrella.
    "Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of Strength"

    -Edmund Burke

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    She has had her day. It's time for some fresh faces. I like Mazie Hirono from Hawaii. It's a shame she is an immigrant; she'd be an awesome president.


    https://www.npr.org/2018/06/07/61723...f-mazie-hirono
    If he ever drinks the brew of 10 tanna leaves, he will become a monster the likes of which the world has never seen



  13. #48
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Has anyone an argument for Pelosi must go other than her age or how long she's been there?

    What has she done wrong? What has she done right? What's her 'batting average", etc.

    Or have we just fallen prey, again, to GOP propaganda? Like the plane. Remember that. FACTS were that Hastart was the first speaker to have his own plane. He came from Illinois. When Pelosi became speaker again, the plane was upgraded by the Sgt. at Arms, because she's from California and needed a plane with a longer range. GOP TOLD US SHE MADE THIS DECISION SO HER FAMILY WOULD FIT. Her family would fit on the plane her plane replaced.

    Wonder how many on this forum remember the facts vs how many just remember the GOP version.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Wonder how many on this forum remember the facts vs how many just remember the GOP version.
    Wonder how many of you can bother to look up the voting record ?

    Oh wait, why should we do that when we can use our imagination and hatred for the Republicans to invent stuff ? Every other word from you guys is "I imagine" or "I suppose" or "It seems like" ... How about if you knock it off with the high school clique crap and discuss fact.

    It's easy. Go look at the record. For me, she was instrumental in the sellout of the Democratic Party and voted to invade Iraq. That's enough. And yes, 80 is too damned old to be a legislator.

    If you just keep pushing the same old crap, then Trump will be president forever and it will be your fault. The Democrats need an actual program and an actual philosophy - one that doesn't involve going down on hands and knees and sticking their butts up in the air. Something to offer so people will vote for them.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    Wonder how many of you can bother to look up the voting record ?
    Why are you being so caustic so soon after joining the forum?
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    ...voted to invade Iraq.
    But, there never was a vote to "invade Iraq."

    You come across as a concern troll.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Boating Intermission



    (Thanks to Mr Knowitall for demo-ing this trick )
    Last edited by on the border; 08-12-2018 at 06:10 AM.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    Wonder how many of you can bother to look up the voting record ?

    Oh wait, why should we do that when we can use our imagination and hatred for the Republicans to invent stuff ? Every other word from you guys is "I imagine" or "I suppose" or "It seems like" ... How about if you knock it off with the high school clique crap and discuss fact.

    It's easy. Go look at the record. For me, she was instrumental in the sellout of the Democratic Party and voted to invade Iraq. That's enough. And yes, 80 is too damned old to be a legislator.

    If you just keep pushing the same old crap, then Trump will be president forever and it will be your fault. The Democrats need an actual program and an actual philosophy - one that doesn't involve going down on hands and knees and sticking their butts up in the air. Something to offer so people will vote for them.
    No body voted to invade Iraq. Many, Hillary and Kerry among them vote for the resolution in the hope it would force Saddam to comply with UN weapons inspectors, who he had been denying access. That resolution was followed by a UN resolution and as of Nov. 27 2002, the UN weapons inspectors had full unfettered access. They could go anywhere without announcing it.

    That is why many voted for that resolution. It was G.W. who, once they had the accessibility, yanked them. Given a bit more time, the weapons inspectors could have found and destroyed any WMDs and there was no need to invade

    This is from Hillary's floor speech

    If we get the resolution that President Bush seeks, and if Saddam complies[with inspectors], disarmament can proceed and the threat can be eliminated. Regime change will, of course, take longer but we must still work for it, nurturing all reasonable forces of opposition.

    If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.

    and this from Hans Blix

    "HANS BLIX, Executive Chairman of the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), said that since UNMOVIC’s twelfth quarterly report had been finalized 10 days ago, a number of relevant events had taken place. Since 27 November 2002, when inspections in Iraq had resumed, relatively few difficulties had been faced relating to process, notably, prompt access to sites. That might well be due to the strong outside pressure. Some practical matters had been resolved at meetings in Baghdad. Initial difficulties raised by the Iraqi side about helicopters and aerial surveillance planes operating in the no-fly zones had been overcome. Inspectors were now able to perform professional no-notice inspections all over Iraq and to increase aerial surveillance."
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    No body voted to invade Iraq.
    Bull droppings. Congress voted the funds to invade. Bernie and Barbara Lee and a very few others voted against it. Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi and almost all the other ethical conscientious highly-educated highly-skilled Democrats voted to invade, just the same as the retrograde Republicans you all hate.

    This has been the cover for evading responsibility since Nixon days. It was illegal then, it's illegal now, it's garbage and always has been.

    edit: It took me all of two minutes to find resolution 114. Some of you might consider a couple of semesters of library science. My memory was faulty tho - Barbara Lee was the only vote against the earlier war resolution, but she was joined by another 120 congressmen voting no on 114. Barbara Boxer did switch sides, good for her.

    These people deserve to be in government :

    https://www.thoughtco.com/2002-iraq-war-vote-3325446

    The rest of Congress should be in chains. Nancy included.

    This is pretty appropriate as well

    http://thehill.com/policy/defense/22...els-vindicated

    We don't torture people, and we don't invade other countries. Except I guess we do. It's worse than disgusting. Every one responsible for that should be in prison.

    Ha ! I was mistaken. She had campaigned vigorously for the resolution but voted against. Half good for Nancy. She is still responsible for the sellout to Goldman-Sachs and at 80, too old. But at least she didn't vote for the Iraq invasion in the end.
    Last edited by on the border; 08-12-2018 at 07:13 AM.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    good on you otb, nothing like facts. Your ire didn’t keep you from gettimg them. Congress’s abdication of responsibility and complicity in the CMIC and its resulting distortion of foreign policy is somewhat bipartisan.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    edit: It took me all of two minutes to find resolution 114. Some of you might consider a couple of semesters of library science.
    Why so caustic? You aren't special. In fact, you are wrong: There was never a vote held to invade Iraq.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    I didn't realize it was the democrats on the talk shows every fricking day talking about WMD and nuclear weapons in Iraq.

    Pretty good movie on how the Bush administration manufactured the reason to go to war.

    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    There was never a vote held to invade Iraq.
    Right. What those products of a coupling between unmarried people did was far worse -- and probably illegal. They abdicated the power to make war to the president for all time and in all cases. All he has to say is "national security !" and off we go on the next invasion.

    Now that Mr Trump is president, how happy are you with that legislation ? Julius Caesar and Adolf Hitler never got that kind of willing acquiescence. It's unbelievable. Congress handed over control of the military without a whimper. Not only did they sanction the invasion of Iraq, they sanctioned anything any president in the future may come up with.

    And each of them has used it, many many times now. Does the word "dictatorship" mean anything to you ?

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Rabbit hole.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Dang otb, the country loves all that military power, what good’s it for if we don’t smash up some country every fifteen years or so?

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    OTB, new guy, two months on board and about a post a day. Previous long time lurker? Returning perma-banned sock-puppet? Or just a hit the ground running sort, already righteously wound up about the current and ongoing policital milieu, with a too articulate to be Rodb or the other Ron, style?

    Or something else entirely and benign if a bit 'caustic' and in any event, caustic and righeously indgnant and such like begins to look like rude, which is one of the cardinal rules mentioned on the sign up page, the violation of which comes with a free ride to banned camp. So that is why the prevailing wisdom amoung the more seasoned membership is to heed the moderator's admonition on that same sign up page, to 'Play Nice.'

    For what it's worth, while I'm being all florid or turgid or something, I agree that w and his cohort of cronies should be in the dock in the Hague. Not buying the rest of the anti-Obama and Hillary stuff, though.

    In Homage to the Emporer for Life

    Peace, sign me,
    already knows plenty about being wound up


    loquacious
    verbose
    ebullient
    wordy
    punctuationy

    ...
    Last edited by Jim Mahan; 08-12-2018 at 10:58 AM.
    I don't care to know what the tough do when the going gets tough.

    I am interested in what the enlightened do.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    But, there never was a vote to "invade Iraq."
    You are almost always correct.

    In this case I think you are mistaken: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Revolution of 2002, Pub. L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    OTB, new guy, two months on board and about a post a day. Previous long time lurker? Returning perma-banned sock-puppet? Or just a hit the ground running sort, already righteously wound up about the current and ongoing policital milieu, with a too articulate to be Rodb or the other Ron, style?

    Or something else entirely and benign if a bit 'caustic' and in any event, caustic and righeously indgnant and such like begins to look like rude, which is one of the cardinal rules mentioned on the sign up page, the violation of which comes with a free ride to banned camp. So that is why the prevailing wisdom amoung the more seasoned membership is to heed the moderator's admonition on that same sign up page, to 'Play Nice.'

    For what it's worth, while I'm being all florid or turgid or something, I agree that w and his cohort of cronies should be in the dock in the Hague. Not buying the rest of the anti-Obama and Hillary stuff, though.

    In Homage to the Emporer for Life

    Peace, sign me,
    already knows plenty about being wound up


    loquacious
    verbose
    ebullient
    wordy
    punctuationy

    ...
    Oooh, now there’s a fine candidate for speaker, eh? The Emperor.

    Oh, He has a “can you hear me in the back row?” voice (that Stella Adler training, eh), and He can totally cry on cue.

    What?

    Peace,
    Robert (The Sane Half. I Think...)

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    You are almost always correct.

    In this case I think you are mistaken: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Revolution of 2002, Pub. L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002.

    With all due respect, I am not mistaken here. The vote was to back up the diplomacatic efforts with the ability to use force, it was not a vote to invade. Unfortunately, Cheney never had any intention to use diplomacy.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    OTB, new guy, two months on board and about a post a day. Previous long time lurker? Returning perma-banned sock-puppet? Or just a hit the ground running sort, already righteously wound up about the current and ongoing policital milieu, with a too articulate to be Rodb or the other Ron, style?



    ...
    Obviously a Russian, taking the "Lock her up" ball and running with it.

    "Some people are saying" ... anyone buying into that sh!t is just plain stupid.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Many of us on the left, long time dems, oppose Pelosi because she in not sufficiently progressive.

    Nothing personal about it at all.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    Many of us on the left, long time dems, oppose Pelosi because she in not sufficiently progressive.

    Nothing personal about it at all.
    On the face of it, I'd buy that, but not at the expense of having tmrp in the White House, or these days, ANY rEpublican, for that matter, but especially two scoops.

    And, I agree further, that it is nothing personal. Except that that man is pretty certainly, in the normal world and outside the R echo box, obnoxiously arrogantly and shallowly contemptible, even if he is somehow unaware of his own sadistic mysoginistic misanthropic soicopathic successful heir and tv star evil. Except for that and the fact that a lot of that was known and obvious about him since before he was a candidate, or a republican, and has only gotten more so in each instance of the above factor that the likes of George Will is off him and turning Democrat... other than that, everyone who voted who had any notion of that, and cognitive ability to see that and make a really simple conclusion about his suitability for the historically highest office in the land one of the very foundations of which is the ability to project confidence in the country and the world that he has what it takes to be ANYTHING closer to 'statesman' than that moroon idot is even capable of mimicing—are complicit and responsible.

    And the possible demise of the United States of America as beacon of Democracy and Freedom on planet Earth will be on every such voter just as surely as it is on that git's mother and her pimp husband.



    Whaddya think Onz. Getting there? That last might be a little spittle flecked and I won't charge for the grammar until I get a little bit unwound.


    Peace and shirt,

    Unsupervised, still medicated, and wound the firetruck up.

    Yall better hope she comes back soon. Just sayin.'
    I don't care to know what the tough do when the going gets tough.

    I am interested in what the enlightened do.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    share this

    'She's a Nonstop Gaffe-Fest': Bongino Says Pelosi Is 'Gift That Keeps on Giving' for Republicans

    As seen on Fox & Friends
    With November's midterm elections looming, some Democrats are distancing themselves from House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi.

    In an interview on CNN's "New Day" on Thursday, Michigan congressional candidate Rashida Tlaib said she would be unlikely to vote for Nancy Pelosi for speaker if Democrats retake the House.

    More than 50 other Democratic congressional incumbents and nominees have made similar statements about not supporting Pelosi, who has been a lightning rod for criticism from President Donald Trump and Republicans.

    Trump took to Twitter on Friday to mock Pelosi as a as "wonderful person" who "should definitely be given a 4th chance."


    On "Fox & Friends," Dan Bongino agreed with Trump, saying that Republicans should be thankful that Pelosi continues to hold a leadership role in the Democratic Party.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    With all due respect, I am not mistaken here. The vote was to back up the diplomacatic efforts with the ability to use force, it was not a vote to invade. Unfortunately, Cheney never had any intention to use diplomacy.
    Yeah, but it was a lever in the door for invasion that many saw as such. Those voting for wanted it both ways and the majority of Congress and Senate did not read the longer top secret. NIE on Iraqs programs that was full of caveats. The war machine was put into play a half year earlier. The invasion was under way usimg speccial ops and staging weapons and troops. It wasn’t going to be turned around without a complete shutdown by Congress. Congress’s request for an intelligence report was a flawed product rammed through giving Congress 72 hrs to read it and debate it.

    otb desire to make some kind of equivalency between the parties in the invasion is misguided.
    Last edited by LeeG; 08-12-2018 at 09:10 PM.

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    Default Re: I'm reading that "Pelosi should go". Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    You are almost always correct.

    In this case I think you are mistaken: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Revolution of 2002, Pub. L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002.
    The purpose of that resolution was to use the military, if necessary, to insure Saddam was in compliance with UN resolutions. FACT is that resolution was followed by a UN resolution, and as of 27 November, 2002, the UN weapons inspectors had full and total access. Given more time they could have found and destroyed anything Saddam was not supposed to have, and the military was not necessary.

    It was G.W. Bush who denied them that time and chose to invade.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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