Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 36

Thread: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    9,990

    Default Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    The Navy's Deadly Dream Weapon: Merge an Aircraft Carrier and a Battleship

    It was once a Reagan era proposal. Don't tell Trump.

    In the November, 1980 issue of the United States Naval Institute Proceedings, Captain Charles Myers, USN (retired) proposed reactivating the battleships with significant modifications to the aft section.The proposal envisioned deleting the number three turret near the stern and the three sixteen-inch guns housed in it.
    In place of the number three turret would be an extraordinary set of armaments. A V-shaped, ramped flight deck would be installed, with the base of the V on the ship’s stern. Each leg of the V would extend forward, so that planes taking off would fly past the stacks and ship’s bridge. Two elevators would bring Boeing AV-8B Harrier II jump-jets up from a new hangar to the flight deck. It was envisioned such a conversion could support up to twelve Harriers.
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...ttleship-28147
    IMMIGRANTS BUILT AMERICA - IMMIGRANTS BUILD AMERICA

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central MA
    Posts
    7,107

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Variation on an old idea. The Japanese did it in WW2.
    I rather be American than a Republican.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bradford, VT
    Posts
    6,101

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    How many other nations does it take to equal our number of aircraft carriers?
    Somehow this sounds like employment security for Admirals

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    88,077

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    or for about half as much money and twice the capability do what the british did with their invincible class jump jet carriers. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    9,392

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    So how does an AC go forward from arresting gear to catapult? Thru a tunnel thru the superstructure? Or on a cantilevered taxiway around the outside?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    40,088

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    So how does an AC go forward from arresting gear to catapult? Thru a tunnel thru the superstructure? Or on a cantilevered taxiway around the outside?
    Harriers needed neither.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    88,077

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    with a kicker ramp
    ski jump
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,043

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    wild idea but passed it's time.
    You were saying?...

    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    9,392

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    If the F-35 is going to our mainline aircraft, we're in even worse trouble than heretofore contemplated. If we're to be satisfied with compromised performance, why not just go back to the Curtis King Fisher? Hell, nobody presently serving in the USN probably ever served on a Battle Wagon equipped with a pair of King Fishers.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    9,990

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Exclusive: Pentagon stops accepting Lockheed F-35 jets over repair cost dispute

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-l...-idUSKBN1HI304
    IMMIGRANTS BUILT AMERICA - IMMIGRANTS BUILD AMERICA

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,043

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    If the F-35 is going to our mainline aircraft, we're in even worse trouble than heretofore contemplated. If we're to be satisfied with compromised performance, why not just go back to the Curtis King Fisher? Hell, nobody presently serving in the USN probably ever served on a Battle Wagon equipped with a pair of King Fishers.
    The F-35 will be a mainline aircraft like the F-22. There are variants of the aircraft however. V/STOL is only one of the variants.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    45,943

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    oh, oh and make it stealthy! and, and with pnuematic cannons shooting dollar bills that would disguise the ship in a cloud of dollar bills!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    40,088

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    The F-35 will be a mainline aircraft like the F-22. There are variants of the aircraft however. V/STOL is only one of the variants.
    We are awaiting the very late delivery of the V/STOL version for out new class of AC. Currently commissioned without "main armament".
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    88,077

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Currently commissioned without "main armament".
    that's just retarded
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,043

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    We are awaiting the very late delivery of the V/STOL version for out new class of AC. Currently commissioned without "main armament".
    I designed airframe FOD inspection equipment for the F-35 program at my last job. I've been at my current job nearly 9 years and did the work for Lockheed over two years before I left the last job. The first quote for the inspection equipment was 8 years prior to the time I actually did the design. It is a _really_ slow rollout.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    9,392

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Good, take away all the hardware associated with VTO&L and it might be a decent interceptor or fighter bomber. No way ican it carry a decent load of ordnance along with the VTO&L ****load.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    40,088

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    Good, take away all the hardware associated with VTO&L and it might be a decent interceptor or fighter bomber. No way ican it carry a decent load of ordnance along with the VTO&L ****load.
    Harrier did. You saying that Lockheed cannot improve on that aged aircraft? Have we been sold a very late pup?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,043

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    Good, take away all the hardware associated with VTO&L and it might be a decent interceptor or fighter bomber. No way ican it carry a decent load of ordnance along with the VTO&L ****load.
    There are three variants that I know of. F-35A - standard take-off and configuation for Air Force use. F-35B V/STOL version intended for some carrier ops and US Marine Corps use (AV-8B replacement?). Finally there's the F-35C intended for carrier launch and retrieval.

    The F-35B is the only one with the S/VTOL capability and the only one with the weight penalty. It loses about 1/3 of fuel capacity, IIRC to the lift fan hardware so range/loiter time is limited.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    49,841

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Harrier did. You saying that Lockheed cannot improve on that aged aircraft? Have we been sold a very late pup?
    "The F-35B is the only one with the S/VTOL capability and the only one with the weight penalty. It loses about 1/3 of fuel capacity, IIRC to the lift fan hardware so range/loiter time is limited."

    Yes.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    27,811

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Take a couple of those old battle wagons and convert them to clean and recycle the Pacific dump that's out there.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,043

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    "The F-35B is the only one with the S/VTOL capability and the only one with the weight penalty. It loses about 1/3 of fuel capacity, IIRC to the lift fan hardware so range/loiter time is limited."

    Yes.
    Well, not quite. The Harrier had a combat range of 300 miles and a top speed of 660 mph with a capacity of 3200 pounds for fuel and munitions. The F-35B has a combat range of 505 miles and a top speed of 1200 mph with a larger fuel and munitions capacity, so it is an improvement on the Harrier. On top of that you get the advanced platform and stealth capabilities. Sure, it doesn't have the range and capacity of the F35A or C, but the operational characteristics are quite different to allow for the S/VTOL.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norwich,United Kingdom
    Posts
    5,513

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    How many Harriers could you build for the cost of one F35?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,043

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    How many Harriers could you build for the cost of one F35?
    Quite a few (Three!). However, you would be buying targets in today's battlespace if you were buying Harriers.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,884

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Missiles are cheap, and getting better and smarter all the time. Meanwhile, the limits on reaction time and high-G manoeuvres in current fighter jets are pegged to the limitations of the human cargo supervising the computer that runs its fly-by-wire systems. The human and his bulky, fragile life-support system is the weak link in the chain any more.

    I don’t think the future of military aviation lies in manned vehicles any more than the future of the army lies in knights on horseback, no matter how pretty they look on parade.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,043

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Missiles are cheap, and getting better and smarter all the time. Meanwhile, the limits on reaction time and high-G manoeuvres in current fighter jets are pegged to the limitations of the human cargo supervising the computer that runs its fly-by-wire systems. The human and his bulky, fragile life-support system is the weak link in the chain any more.

    I don’t think the future of military aviation lies in manned vehicles any more than the future of the army lies in knights on horseback, no matter how pretty they look on parade.
    No, missiles are not that cheap anymore.

    Drones and unmanned vehicles will have a part in the battle space, but we’re not there yet.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  26. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    88,077

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    you would be buying targets in today's battlespace if you were buying Harriers.
    That depends upon who you are planning to go to war with, no?

    The F35 in none of its variations is capable of close air support of ground troops fighting so called insurgents. It was initially sold to replace the A10, but it can't do what the A10 does, it can't absorb damage like the A10 can, and notably it is incapable of flying the number of sorties per day, week, month and year that the A10 can. The F35 is a maintenance hog.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,043

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    True, but if you’re trying to make a Harrier fill the role of an F35 and compete with the platforms the F35 wa intended for, it likely will not do well.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  28. #28
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    The Garden State
    Posts
    1,935

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    great idea in a time of war.. but how many men and man hours would it take to out fit say, The USS New Jersey for such a role and how many men to keep her running? We would be better not scrapping the old carriers and refitting them
    "Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of Strength"

    -Edmund Burke

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    49,841

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Yes, but if you are a budding Admiral or a dropped in Sec. of the Navy there's nothing like a battleship to impress the rubes……………….

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Indian Land, SC, USA
    Posts
    861

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Slight thread drift - the US Navy had / has a Service Life Extension Program program on it's aircraft carriers ( to add 15 years to the original 30+ active service life ) -- it should be fairly straight-forward to apply it again to each of the carriers to alter them to a new type of mission.



    Rick

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    27,811

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    That depends upon who you are planning to go to war with, no?

    The F35 in none of its variations is capable of close air support of ground troops fighting so called insurgents. It was initially sold to replace the A10, but it can't do what the A10 does, it can't absorb damage like the A10 can, and notably it is incapable of flying the number of sorties per day, week, month and year that the A10 can. The F35 is a maintenance hog.
    "That's a feature, not a bug." - Lockheed-Martin Inc.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    49,841

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Providing running costs of the actual ship are not astronomical, a retired carrier represents an enormous opportunity for the US to change it's reputation as the world's policeman, to the worlds doctor and disaster reliever.
    I do understand that this is already happening as a secondary purpose.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    40,088

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Providing running costs of the actual ship are not astronomical, a retired carrier represents an enormous opportunity for the US to change it's reputation as the world's policeman, to the worlds doctor and disaster reliever.
    I do understand that this is already happening as a secondary purpose.
    Yep, HMS Invincible did that in the Caribbean during her sea trials, before she was even in commission.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norwich,United Kingdom
    Posts
    5,513

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Can an F35 with a full complement of weapons and full tanks actually get off a carrier?An aviation enthusiast I used to know claimed that they could only use vertical take off with mostly empty tanks and then have to find a friendly tanker with some haste.There may have been some developments in the intervening years.Yet it seems that the updated A10 that the infantry would like to appear,will never happen.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    88,077

    Default Re: Reactivate battleships as hybrid aircraft carriers? What!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Can an F35 with a full complement of weapons and full tanks actually get off a carrier?
    the conventional variant of the f35 has a total weapons payload of 18,000 pounds and carries 18,000 pounds of fuel

    the vtol version has a total weapons payload of 11,000 pounds and carries 14,000 pounds of fuel

    interestingly enough despite the reduction in total weapons payload it carries more ammo for its cannon, than does the conventional version, suggesting its ground support role. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •