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Thread: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

  1. #1
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    Default What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    I am building a faering and I am wondering what glue is the best for the Scarf joint between the Lot and the Stem. I have heard polyurethane is allegedly good for this action but I am wondering if there is a specific brand.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Epoxy.
    Rescorcinol (If I could spell right).

    If you really want to know, make samples of each, then break them while measuring the force.

    Where did you "hear" polyurethane is good?

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    To be honest I read in Faerings string on his oselvar boat where he said he used polyurethane glue

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Mythbusters built a boat using frozen newspaper.
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    Davy Jones' locker
    Last edited by Mo 'Poxy; 08-04-2018 at 10:01 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Do you really need to glue the scarfs. The old fashion way is to have some tar in the scarfs, maybe some fabric, and just use clinker nails to join them....

    Edit: Do you have photos? Is the scarfs made across, or lengthways?

    Fred

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Didn't old fashioned boats rot to death?
    There have been some improvements.

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Didn't old fashioned boats rot to death?
    There have been some improvements.
    Guess all wooden boats rot to death in time... I am no expert, just curious. But after restoring a Nordlandsboat, with scarf without glue, I found rot on the sheer and some frames, but not in the scarfs.. But I dont think some glue will hurt either

    Fred

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    How is the rest of the boat held together? Epoxy? Metal fastenings? Bear fat and sinews?

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Didn't old fashioned boats rot to death?
    There have been some improvements.
    Not where the laps and scarfs are luted with tar. Between the bands and plank yes, but they were not given any luting.

    It is planks splitting along the grain that kills clinker boats.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bayard View Post
    To be honest I read in Faerings string on his oselvar boat where he said he used polyurethane glue
    Gluing is convenient, but not traditional. I glued the scarfs because thatís what they do at Oselvarverkstaden. Since the majority of their boats are varnished, tar would become very visible and ugly. The advantage with gluing is that the lot and stem can be passed through the thicknesser after gluing; leaving almost an invisible joint and the two pieces can be processed as one after gluing. Oselvarverkstaden (and myself and probably some other amateurs) are the only one that use glue as far as I know. After the lot/stems are processed the scarfs are riveted and screwed, so the purpose of the glue is basically temporarily, only needs to last until the scarf is riveted and screwed. Other yards use tar and a piece of cloth in the scarf before it is riveted and nailed. Traditionally Oselvar were built in the same way; using tar, cloth, rivet and nails. Screws are something new.

    It depend on if you intent to varnish or tar the finished boat and how traditionally you want to build.

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    What is the "Lot".?

    Perhaps Nick knows the equivalent English term
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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    What is the "Lot".?

    Perhaps Nick knows the equivalent English term
    Lot is the piece between the keel and stem, one at each end of the keel.

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Piece with a considerable bend.?

    Was the old way of joining these with a hooked scarf and folded wedge.
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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Piece with a considerable bend.?

    Was the old way of joining these with a hooked scarf and folded wedge.
    Not on a boat that small. The traditional way was a plain scarf fastened by two clinked nails.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    Epoxy is your best bet for scarfing because it is the best for end grain gluing.

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    My very limited experience is that my own 40 years old boat has glued scaphes. As traditional clinker boats are rather flexible the keel to stem scarph was broken open over time and rot set in. A simple matter of elasticity. The stiffest member takes the greatest load and nether the stem nor the scaph is strong enough to take all the load alone when the glue prewents it from flexing. If that boat is ever to see any water again it will need a new stem and a new forward part of the keel because it is all rotten inside.

    I took part in rebuilding another boat which had tarred and nailed scaphes. The keel to stem scarph was as sound as when the boat was built 70 years ago. The keel to sternpost scarph was totally ironsick and rotten. Rainwater had collected there when the boat was beached and probably freezing water had wedged the scarph open. We shifted half the keel and the sternpost.

    So......... I think you should use plenty of tar and no glue.....justy because I prefere visible damage over invisible rot hidden inside... but I am not a boatbuilder.....
    Last edited by heimlaga; 08-11-2018 at 05:20 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    If I do it the traditional way, do I tar and nail after I make the angle from the 44 mm to 13mm on the outside edge? And also does it matter if the joint is not fully "airtight" because the tarred fabric plugs the final gaps?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: What Glue? - Norwegian Faering - Scarf Joints

    When West System brought out G/flex epoxy I was skeptical at first. But after using it for nearly ten years now, I am really impressed with this flexible bonding epoxy that is designed to be used with woods that are difficult to bond such as white oak, teak and other diffifult or oily woods.

    After looking at your sketch showing the "lot", that is what we refer to as the "fore-foot". Since I have not built any double enders such as yours, I have no knowledge of the term used for the after equivalent of the "lot" that is located aft. We do have that which we call a "horn timber" though. Then on a conventual transom ended hull we also have the "dead wood" and "stern knee" as well as the "fashion frame".
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 09-02-2018 at 09:53 PM.

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