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Thread: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

  1. #36
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    True and there is the possibility of real friendships developing.
    That's true. Add $6 and you can buy a cup of Starbuck's coffee (kinda funny in context )



    btw, you just said it won't be a problem because now the natives have guns. But don't you want to take away the guns ? Why would you even consider that you'd need guns against the kindly refugees ? If you do consider that maybe having guns just in case is a good idea, is it a good idea to import hundreds of thousands of kindly fertile refugees ? Are you sure that you will always have guns ? What if the kindly refugees vote to ban guns ? Guns are dangerous, you know. What do you need guns for ? We have laws. Laws are voted on by the people. It's a democracy. Kindly refugees get to vote too, even if they are "undocumented". That's their right as humans !

    Back to my original premise, if this is what your plan is, why not cut to the chase and just give the place to ... I dunno. Iran ? Iraq ? Saudi Arabia ? Syria ? Libya ? Who knows, who cares. You don't care enough about your own culture to think it's worth having, may as well throw it away. Cambodia maybe, let Prince Sihanouk run the place. You could trade straight across.
    Last edited by on the border; 08-05-2018 at 02:27 AM.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    We don't have guns , well not many but we do have quite a good army. We have also taken a huge number of refugees, mainly starting just after WW2. It hasn't been a problem, exactly the opposite in fact.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    We don't have guns , well not many but we do have quite a good army. We have also taken a huge number of refugees, mainly starting just after WW2. It hasn't been a problem, exactly the opposite in fact.
    Oh, I thought you just said you were armed to the teeth. So you don't have guns. And you have a huge number of refugees. And you want more. And you're a democracy.

    Do you see a potential problem here ? The people of Hongcouver woke up. When will you wake up ? Will your Australia even be there when you do ?

    Here's a bad bit of news from history - the Suquamish have less than zero say in what happens in Seattle now. They are lucky to get to run a casino here and there.

    Maybe they will let you do that in Australia also.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    I'll leave you to your paranoia .Enjoy.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Looks like we have another NRA supporter.
    Give everyone guns and the world's problems disappear.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    Looks like we have another NRA supporter.
    Give everyone guns and the world's problems disappear.
    I didn't bring up guns. Peter Sibley said everything would be okay because you had guns. But then he said you don't have guns, so I dropped the subject. Peter, are you an NRA stooge posing as a kind-hearted liberal ?

    You people really are entertaining with your idées fixes. Anyone who disagrees with you fits in Category A or Category B or Category C, no matter what they actually say. Do they have any classes in reading comprehension near you ? A referesher might be in order ?

  7. #42
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post

    Historically, "immigration" has been the end of existing cultures in every single instance. Maybe you think Syrians are superior to Australians or Americans, but in reality they aren't going to do more than thank you as they destroy your country. This is what has happened every single time throughout history.
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    The idea we need highly fertile immigrants to save our society is nuts. But then again liberals have been arguing we need them to pick our vegetables and do jobs we don’t do. So yeah, I understand the mentality.
    Unless these are attempts at sarcasm/irony they are fact free posts.

    The UK is a far better more vibrant interesting society thanks to immigration, Hugenot, Muslim Chinese, Hindu and so on.

    We have the same issue with our white British born workers not being willing to take on backbreaking harvest work, so your liberals are not wrong. Back in the '50s an Italian community, followed by Pakistanis were encouraged to come work in our brick fields, because demobbed British servicemen would not. It is not a new problem.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #43
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    The UK is a far better more vibrant interesting society thanks to immigration, Hugenot, Muslim Chinese, Hindu and so on.
    But no one is complaining about immigration. The problem is hundreds of thousands of "refugees" who are not chosen for their desire to become Australian or American or British. Not chosen for their talents and skills. Not chosen on the basis of "will these people adopt to our society and fit in ?

    Yes in some cases it is the fault of England and the US that they even exist - Syria, for example - but conflating controlled immigration following rules and some sort of procedures with massive importation of "refugees" is bull puckey. It is not at all the same thing.

    Yet you insist on claiming they are the same. You are dishonest.

    It's also bs that "Americans" or "demobbed British" would not work. Between starving and work, anyone will work. The problem is/was, the pay was too crappy. While the wealthy happily raise turbine-powered speedboats as a testament to their wonderfulness, working class people are supposed to survive on three bucks a day. The problem is not that natives won't work. It's that as long as the aristocracy can import slaves, they won't pay.
    Last edited by on the border; 08-05-2018 at 03:26 AM.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    A young Italian couple here on their honeymoon told me that in their area long deserted old villages are being repopulated by African immigrants/refugees/whatever. Old houses fixed up, gardens productive, street markets appearing. Thy seemed to think that it was a good thing for the country.
    The european birthrate in Italy crashed some time ago, in 2016 it was the lowest since 1861.
    "ROME (Reuters) - The number of babies born in Italy hit a record low in 2016, the population shrank and the average age crept higher, national statistics office ISTAT said on Monday. Births dropped by 12,000 to 474,000 last year, the lowest level since the unification of Italy in 1861, while deaths totaled 608,000, ISTAT said.

    The average Italian is now 44.9 years old, up 0.2 years from 2015, while some 22.3 percent of the population is over 65, the highest ratio in the 28-nation European Union.
    "

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN16D28U

    The US's Latin migrants from the south will be the ones to carry the country into the future as previous migrations have done.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    A young Italian couple here on their honeymoon told me ...
    And a friend of mine who lives in England (family goes back hundreds, etc etc) says he hates it, fears for his family's future, etc etc. So what ? Who cares what "someone told you" ? I can pull anecdotes out my nether regions as well.

    As far as California goes I can say this for a fact - you are spouting nonsense from ten thousand miles away. California was wonderful fifty years ago -- before the vast influx of immigrants, and I mean immigrants from the rest of the US as well. Overpopulation is not the solution to anything unless you run a boiler room selling subscriptions to some two-headed-boy magazine. Reducing the population of the US by a few hundred million would make a huge improvement in the quality of life.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    But no one is complaining about immigration. The problem is hundreds of thousands of "refugees" who are not chosen for their desire to become Australian or American or British. Not chosen for their talents and skills. Not chosen on the basis of "will these people adopt to our society and fit in ?

    Yes in some cases it is the fault of England and the US that they even exist - Syria, for example - but conflating controlled immigration following rules and some sort of procedures with massive importation of "refugees" is bull puckey. It is not at all the same thing.

    Yet you insist on claiming they are the same. You are dishonest.

    It's also bs that "Americans" or "demobbed British" would not work. Between starving and work, anyone will work. The problem is/was, the pay was too crappy. While the wealthy happily raise turbine-powered speedboats as a testament to their wonderfulness, working class people are supposed to survive on three bucks a day. The problem is not that natives won't work. It's that as long as the aristocracy can import slaves, they won't pay.
    Don't argue British history with a Brit. Brits would not and do not do the work. Those demobbed found cushier jobs, the unemployed in Lincolnshire will not apply for harvest work. Unlike the US our farmers do not employ/rely on illegals, and we have a minimum wage system so your "3 bucks a day" comment is ignorant BS.

    As to immigrants being chosen for their talents and skills, our NHS relies on skilled immigrants. Immigrants are keen to find work and become self sufficient, recent stats indicate that they are not a burden on our society, depending on how you run the analysis they are either net contributors to the economy or have a very small impact financially.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    I went to the doctor last week, a very pleasant Syrian fella.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm sure many will feel threatened, that their 'traditional' way of like is threatened, and so it is. And it will continue to be by largely climate change and industrialisation. But I think you will be on the wrong side of the future to come. Of course such pressures all over the world, every country just about want's to shut the door, might just trigger a breakdown of the civilisation the west has built since the enlightenment. Change is permanent, ongoing, inevitable. I realised that as a teenager, and as much as anything else the realisation helped prompt me never to have children. The longer I live the more I think I was correct.But one can only hope that the next generation are less panicked and better managers than the post WW2 has been, history does not give me much confidence.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I went to the doctor last week, a very pleasant Syrian fella.
    Bully for you. What's that got to do with mass migration?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa
    The UK is a far better more vibrant interesting society thanks to immigration, Hugenot, Muslim Chinese, Hindu and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Change is permanent, ongoing, inevitable. I realised that as a teenager, and as much as anything else the realisation helped prompt me never to have children. The longer I live the more I think I was correct.But one can only hope that the next generation are less panicked and better managers than the post WW2 has been, history does not give me much confidence.
    +1 to both. Somehow, we have to find a way to deal with what is. The seeds of which we have helped to sow and nurture. Whether it ought or not to be as it is can be debated forever, but there will be no going back.
    Last edited by downthecreek; 08-05-2018 at 04:35 AM.
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm sure many will feel threatened, that their 'traditional' way of like is threatened, and so it is. And it will continue to be by largely climate change and industrialisation. But I think you will be on the wrong side of the future to come. Of course such pressures all over the world, every country just about want's to shut the door, might just trigger a breakdown of the civilisation the west has built since the enlightenment. Change is permanent, ongoing, inevitable. I realised that as a teenager, and as much as anything else the realisation helped prompt me never to have children. The longer I live the more I think I was correct.But one can only hope that the next generation are less panicked and better managers than the post WW2 has been, history does not give me much confidence.
    Oh good. Let's jump on a few bandwagons. Climate change, etc.

    Rubbish. It's economic migration first and foremost... and as someone else pointed out earlier... the degradation of their own lands at their own hands, that's leading to mass migration.

    Successful countries will always target specific migrants. Skills that they want. Not mass mobs of bludgers.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    There's one thing about you Ian, predictable language, predictable reactions.

    "Not mass mobs of bludgers."

    Europe will be remade, or dissolve into the old internecine squabbles. But neither of us will be about to see how it goes, pity that, it's quite interesting.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Don't argue British history with a Brit. Brits would not and do not do the work. Those demobbed found cushier jobs, the unemployed in Lincolnshire will not apply for harvest work. Unlike the US our farmers do not employ/rely on illegals, and we have a minimum wage system so your "3 bucks a day" comment is ignorant BS.

    As to immigrants being chosen for their talents and skills, our NHS relies on skilled immigrants. Immigrants are keen to find work and become self sufficient, recent stats indicate that they are not a burden on our society, depending on how you run the analysis they are either net contributors to the economy or have a very small impact financially.
    there are still 100,000s waiting in Calais to let them in.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Migrants are the brave ones, the motivated ones, they leave all, risk all, work like buggery to get their children educated, to university, and into professions that help the traditional the community as they age.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Migrants are the brave ones, the motivated ones, they leave all, risk all, work like buggery to get their children educated, to university, and into professions that help the traditional the community as they age.
    Agreed, true courage !
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    A young Italian couple here on their honeymoon told me that in their area long deserted old villages are being repopulated by African immigrants/refugees/whatever. Old houses fixed up, gardens productive, street markets appearing. Thy seemed to think that it was a good thing for the country.
    The european birthrate in Italy crashed some time ago, in 2016 it was the lowest since 1861.
    "ROME (Reuters) - The number of babies born in Italy hit a record low in 2016, the population shrank and the average age crept higher, national statistics office ISTAT said on Monday. Births dropped by 12,000 to 474,000 last year, the lowest level since the unification of Italy in 1861, while deaths totaled 608,000, ISTAT said.

    The average Italian is now 44.9 years old, up 0.2 years from 2015, while some 22.3 percent of the population is over 65, the highest ratio in the 28-nation European Union.
    "

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN16D28U

    The US's Latin migrants from the south will be the ones to carry the country into the future as previous migrations have done.
    are you saying because a country has a low birth rate that it requires them to accept people form a different country to offf set that fact?
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    There's one thing about you Ian, predictable language, predictable reactions.

    "Not mass mobs of bludgers."

    Europe will be remade, or dissolve into the old internecine squabbles. But neither of us will be about to see how it goes, pity that, it's quite interesting.
    Welfare has been a prime motivator for some of the mass movements
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Agreed, true courage !
    Absolutely not. True courage is staying where you are and working to fix whatever problems your own country has, not running off to ruin someone else's home.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    No, just that nature, and economies abhor a vacuum. No workers equal no spenders equals no economy.

    (But you have to pay your workers enough to spend on other than necessities)

    It's a circular pattern. You pay people $10 extra, the workers buy an extra widget each, the widget manufacturer puts on labour, buys a new machine, sells more widgets…………I don't need to go on.

    And #60. Doesn't work that way. History says it never has. Thomas Nast, the Irish immigration crisis.



    https://www.history.com/news/when-am...refugee-crisis

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    No, just that nature, and economies abhor a vacuum. No workers equal no spenders equals no economy.

    (But you have to pay your workers enough to spend on other than necessities)

    It's a circular pattern. You pay people $10 extra, the workers buy an extra widget each, the widget manufacturer puts on labour, buys a new machine, sells more widgets…………I don't need to go on.
    But go on, you do. And on, and on. It's not about workers. It's about mass migration... about economic migration, about open borders. Merkel is facing up to her errors now.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    Absolutely not. True courage is staying where you are and working to fix whatever problems your own country has, not running off to ruin someone else's home.
    Bingo. Fix the problems at source.... don't just export them to other countries.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    There goes Australia's Post WW2 immigration and all those Vietnamese we took. I guess they should have stayed there and been "reeducated".
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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    And #60. Doesn't work that way. History says it never has.
    History says nothing of the kind. Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi, Fred Hampton, Simon Bolivar, Rachel Carson, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, I'll think of a dozen more as soon as I click "send."

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    most of you live in gated communities.
    That's a ludicrous statement. How could any reasonable person believe they know where we live, from the information available to a forum noob?
    Has BigFella and SkyBlue on ignore.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    And a friend of mine who lives in England (family goes back hundreds, etc etc) says he hates it, fears for his family's future, etc etc. So what ? Who cares what "someone told you" ? I can pull anecdotes out my nether regions as well.

    As far as California goes I can say this for a fact - you are spouting nonsense from ten thousand miles away. California was wonderful fifty years ago -- before the vast influx of immigrants, and I mean immigrants from the rest of the US as well. Overpopulation is not the solution to anything unless you run a boiler room selling subscriptions to some two-headed-boy magazine. Reducing the population of the US by a few hundred million would make a huge improvement in the quality of life.
    Weren't your ancestors immigrants?

    It does seem rather odd that people who took land away from Mexico can be so annoyed when Mexicans try to enter it again.
    Has BigFella and SkyBlue on ignore.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    That's a ludicrous statement. How could any reasonable person believe they know where we live, from the information available to a forum noob?
    Not as ludicrous as your statement that I'm on ignore. How'd you see the thread?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    Oh, I thought you just said you were armed to the teeth. So you don't have guns. And you have a huge number of refugees. And you want more. And you're a democracy.

    Do you see a potential problem here ? The people of Hongcouver woke up. When will you wake up ? Will your Australia even be there when you do ?

    Here's a bad bit of news from history - the Suquamish have less than zero say in what happens in Seattle now. They are lucky to get to run a casino here and there.

    Maybe they will let you do that in Australia also.
    We don't have a huge number of refugees. They make up less than 4% of the total population growth.
    Has BigFella and SkyBlue on ignore.

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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Nelson Mandela: SA going in the direction of Zimbabwe
    Mahatma Gandhi: A one religion state developing
    Malcolm X, Martin Luther King: Nevertheless a black man in the white house produced Donald. And you don't know where that's going yet,

    If Europe has been having temperature problems;……………….










    Extreme heat wave over Algeria, N Africa this week, many stations are reporting close to 50°C max afternoon temperatures! Apparently there was a new record set in Ouargla as there was 51.3°C yesterday, July 5th. WOW!
    Map by Meteociel












    consider north Africa, Libia and water for instance.

    "
    Libya faces considerable obstacles in adapting to global climate change. The economy is almost entirely dependent on hydrocarbon production and exports. It is estimated that one third of the population lives below the poverty line, and thus has limited resources to adapt to projected increases in temperature and extreme weather events. Over 85 percent of the population lives in urban areas, mostly near the coast, where water is more accessible. Annual water demand is around one billion cubic meters, compared to annual groundwater recharge estimated at only 250 million cubic meters. The Gaddaffi government attempted to address water scarcity through the Great Man-Made River project, which taps into non-renewable fossil aquifers in the Sahara desert. These aquifers are now responsible for nearly 80 percent of the country’s water use. "


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    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Weren't your ancestors immigrants?
    300 years ago, with a documented history of getting along with the Indians and ... umm ... "mingling." One killed by Joseph Brant, but he said it was an accident, didn't realize who he was shooting at. Personally, I am a native. I am not an immigrant. No we are not "all immigrants."

    If you want to get ridiculous, everyone but Lucy is an immigrant. However, in practice it seems more rational to admit that people who have lived in one spot on the planet for a few hundred years are no longer immigrants.

    Again, there is a huge difference between immigration designed to maintain and expand the quality of life for a community, and simply being overrun by hordes of barbarians. No one has a god-given "right" to protect anything but that's how us mammals are made. We have communities and we try to keep them somewhat in line with our ethics and values.

    Stoning women to death because their brother-in-law happened to see their face is not one of my values. Those are not values I want in my neighborhood. If that's what you want, then we will have to disagree and take it to the polls. And if you win, I leave. You are welcome to that society, but I would suggest you try living in some of these places before you open the doors to people you don't understand. You might be in for a shock.

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    Los Angeles CA USA
    Posts
    93

    Default Re: The Strange Death of Europe - a discussion about mass migration

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I'll leave you to your paranoia .Enjoy.
    I will just mention that you are the one who said, "We don't have to worry about immigrants because we are armed to the teeth."

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