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Thread: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    I've tried pushing that one on others.

    I dislike plywood shapes.
    This one will be strip planked.

    Thanks
    At higher froude speeds these are capable of, a chined hull is more efficient hydrodynamically. A 'round' strip n glass boat will be heavier and slower.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 08-09-2018 at 08:00 AM.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I really appreciate the comments.

    But how hard is it that I like strip planked and Elderly care??
    If I wanted chines, I can put them in a strip planked boat, like the Chipmunk Kayak shown above.

    I really don't like plywood planked boats. I have a kayak that's done that way, I would get rid of it but my wife won't let me.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Try reaching out to Chris Ostlind.

    18ft Collage is strip plank but a bit more boat than Elderly Care:-





    He's designed quite a few small tri's of this type and sit on tops etc. Some were ply some were strip plank I think. Fast 17 was one. A18 I think another. Did some work with Watertribe to make an 'ideal EC boat'. Works on CAD which will benenfit strip plank.

    http://lunadadesign.net/category/trimarans/

    May have something in his locker just right or commision the design from him just how you want it.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 08-10-2018 at 04:47 AM.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I've watched Ostlind's illustrations for a long time.
    He dissappeared for about 10 years.
    One of the boats in an article on Duckworks was never finished.
    Duckworks said they were no longer carrying his designs when I inquired.
    There was a serious lack of anything but the illustrations.
    So I decided not to go there.

    Perhaps he has restarted. I'll wait to see if anyone builds something.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I think he suffered with some mental illness which wax and wanes. I'd imagine that it would be easier to manage off 'the internet'. None of us are perfect. I'd still consider reaching out through his email. You want that type of boat and it's clearly what he enjoys designing.

    Richard Woods might be worth talking to also. Does generally bigger stuff but knows his onions. Some of his are strip planked.

    The easiest thing to do might be to buy a Hobie Adventure Island. Easy resale too.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 08-10-2018 at 09:32 AM.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Edward,

    I want an Elderly Care clone.

    I don't want an illustration and I don't want plastic.

    I know everyone wants to help, but I've spent 40 years refining my desires.

    I'd be happy for you to reach out to Ostlind and report back. Don't do it for me.

    Marc

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Wade,
    Why does the motion have to be controlled?
    The motion will naturally be limited by the length of the ama on the wave formation.
    There is not going to be a lot of motion until you really shouldn't be out there.

    If you want control, why not fix the ama to the aka, and let torsion of the aka control position of the ama?
    --- I don't know. Maybe to avoid having the amas pinwheeling around the aka bearing in a weird situation? I suggest seeing if Alan Stewart will talk to you (he works at B&B Yacht Designs with Graham Byrnes, so e-mail him there). Alan is a nice guy, and if he is not going crazy with work or out cruising, I think he could explain some things -- he may well know about Elderly Care than any of us (he certainly studied it up close). He built his own version of Elderly Care (but you probably know that), sort of, though differing in some major ways (ama volume, particularly: he had to stow his whole rig inside the hull to paddle the boat as a kayak down a hundred miles of river in the Ultimate Florida Challenge). I believe he too used this line-limiter on the amas? Perhaps it adjusts the ama attitudes in different seas? I don't know....I am a solid-attachment ama man. -- Wade

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Thanks to everyone for suggestions.

    I did make contact with Skip Izon - the designer and builder of the hull.
    He seemed very willing to talk about the design, and is looking for the lines plans, templates, and building forms.
    The design was originally a 15'er which he had designed, then built for Meade Gougeon.
    The second iteration was stretched to 17' - which is the hull Meade used to win his class in the Everglades Challange.

    The boat is strip planked western red cedar, with graphite cloth inside and out in West epoxy (what else would he use? ).

    Meade then worked out and added the leeboards, rudder, crossarm and amas. And installed the mast and sailing gear.

    He's pretty busy with paying customers so it might be a while for the next report.

    Skipper (his signature) when we made Email contact said:
    "My main motivation here is to see what Meade and I worked on together extend into the future and I thank you for picking up the torch ."

    He had heard that possibly people at Gougeon Brothers were planning on building a number of these boats. Nothing for sure, but I will be checking.

    I think me "picking up the torch" is a little over the top, given my laziness but I was happy to find him easy to talk to, and his design concepts made sense to me.

    PS. he did say that Meade told him the boat did 15kts planing on a broad reach in moderate seas. Seemed pretty good with the small freestanding rig and the small ama's.
    Last edited by upchurchmr; 08-29-2018 at 08:39 PM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Thanks! You have gotten further than anyone on this topic, so far. If not 'picking up the torch' then at least shining a small, waterproof LED flashlight. :-) -- Wade

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Good news!
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Nice work.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Unexpected new update.

    Contacted Gougeon brothers and talked to Ben Gougeon, Meade's son.

    Apparently the boat is 19' not 17'.
    The boat was sailed in the last Everglades Challenge by Art Scharl, a friend of Meade. Which had been mentioned before.
    The boat is expected to be returned sometime in the future to Ben.

    It was believed that no actual plans exist at the Gougeon office, but Ben offered to look, and take pictures when the boat is returned.
    He also offered to help with information on where the other components were sourced (besides the hull).

    FYI, he believed that there was a plug for the 19' boat, but that it would require lots of work before a fiberglass hull could be pulled from it. Personally I'm not really interested in a glass boat.
    There also had been a plug for the earlier 15' boat, from which a couple of hulls have been made by their Community Boatbuilding Association.

    Ben also said he didn't know if the hull design was jointly "owned" by Skippy Izon and his dad, but he was immediately willing to say that I had permission to use the design, if any was needed. As I said before, Skippy believes the hull design was solely his, and has said the same thing.

    So everything is much more hopeful that 2 days ago, I just need to wait for more information.

    It's really remarkable the friendliness and helpfulness from Skippy and Ben for someone who called out of the blue.

    More as it comes.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    19’ long. That is exciting, confirms my instinct to go longer than the more prevalent 15-16’ length. I have been planning on my next sailing canoe being 18’, maybe that will stretch a bit. My current one is 16’ and it definitely feels short in the water.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  14. #49
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Now all you need to do is use a hull which has a transom for straighter flow lines and less drag at the stern.

    At least that is my bias.

    I don't know how wide this hull is, but Meade was quoted as saying the hull was "really slippery".
    Perhaps you could use this hull as a sailing "canoe".

    Trying to scale from pictures, I'd guess the hull is about 41" wide. Lots of assumptions on that guess.
    Considering the use of amas, I wonder about using a narrower hull. With amas you don't really need as much restoring moment from width in the main hull.

    Have you thought about using the Bufflehead plans? I got a set, they are cheap, but they also are just a set of lines.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I wonder if he meant plug or set of molds? At the beginning of the video, Skip's forms look like this:
    Capture.jpg
    Looks like both inner and outer forms with the planks held between. Not sure how this works. I just used staples on inside forms.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Ben Gougeon said plug, and seemed to indicate it would be used for a fiberglass hull.
    Skippy Izon talked about plans, templates, and forms - I imagine forms to be the same as the image you showed.
    He did suggest that building forms would be very expensive to ship and probably the best way would be to ship the templates.

    I don't know how the forms work in the video.
    As we go on I'll try to get an explanation. If so I'll relay it.
    My experience is with interior forms on a spine per Nick Schade building methods, similar to what I think you mean.

    Marc

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    It's been a little while since I updated this.

    I have recieved "templates" for the sections from Skip Izon.
    Also some pictures, but not plans per say.

    Skip designed and built the hull. Shipped it to Gougeon who designed built and installed everything else on the hull.
    Haven't found out who made the rigging.

    Skip provided the templates to me for a fee of $100 for use of the design (+ shipping cost) and the templates have been returned.

    Corresponded with Ben Gougeon who said that when Elderly Care ( now Voyager) is returned to him, he will provide some additional details.
    No schedule on when that might happen. He agreed that the hull design is Skip's and said he would be happy if anyone continued his fathers legacy by building a similar boat.

    I believe Voyager was scheduled to participate in the Everglades Challange this year, but appeared to be a DNS.

    My own build attempt is on hold until I can get some more information on the ama's, aka's, etc.

    Skip did say that another person stretched the design to 21' in order to make a 2 person boat. In Europe I believe.

    I used the information provided by MN Dave to contact Skip.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Voyageur was at the EC beach on Friday and I took a fair amount of pictures of the boat there. What information about the amas, akas are you hoping to learn?

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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!


  20. #55
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    The akas and leeboard are on two separate pivot points. The akas have a bungee "spring". The leeboard is only on one side and really deep.

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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!


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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Last edited by Scott M.; 03-13-2019 at 04:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Last edited by Scott M.; 03-13-2019 at 04:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Last edited by Scott M.; 03-13-2019 at 04:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Last edited by Scott M.; 03-13-2019 at 04:50 AM.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    That’s good news upchurchmr.

    thanks for the pictures ScottM. I can’t see some of them. I have wondered about the twin boards inside the hull and centered that I have seen on other pictures. Do you have any information about them? Did you see them?
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  27. #62
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Scott M. I was looking for measurements so that I could duplicate the position, dimensions, and all the details that would allow me to build them for my own boat. Thanks for all the pictures, but I didn't want to guess at the positions, etc, so that I wouldn't introduce errors into the design of the boat. That also goes for the rig, which I have not been able to get any details at all.

    Do you know if the boat sailed? I seem to read the results as saying the boat did not start, but it is difficult to know which boat is which in the results, since there is no column for "name of the boat".

    Apparently your "attachments" do not connect to anything. Any way you can repost them or forward them? I would be happy to send a email link.

    Matt, everything that I have seen says there are not any "boards" inside the hull, only the single leeboard on the outside as shown in the pictures.

    The aka or crossarm seems to be new, it is much smaller and differently shaped than the pictures I have from earlier.

    In reference to post #50, Skip built the hull in two halves - opposite sides with a vertical separation line down the centerline. The picture shows the left and right jigs at the same time. There is a set of frames for the inside mold line of the hull, and an outside set of frames. The outside frames are connected to the mold at the split line. There is a gap between the inside and outside frames, which allows the strips to be placed against the inside frame, then wedges are used between the outside frame and the strips to hold them (the strips) in position against the inside frame.

    I really don't understand the mechanics of how each individual strip is fitted, and glued, before being wedged.
    The main benefit is to have a boat with no staple holes for Skip's desired look. Normally his boats are finished clear with fiberglass. In this case the boat was coated with carbon fiber inside and out, then painted, so in my mind avoiding staple holes was a personal choice rather than an ascetic choice.
    Last edited by upchurchmr; 03-13-2019 at 12:43 AM.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    The two “boards” not sure what they are really are from this picture and this era. I agree with you the aka is new.

    B1FC505B-B0E5-42F3-A622-69D351895B89.jpg
    686F9D4F-5A9B-45BA-A78C-C63114E67220.jpg
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    The cockpit picture I took was a little cluttered. I didn't see anything like the twin "boards". Also, I'm going to respectfully disagree about akas looking new. They match the 2018 akas but it will take a search to find pictures over the years.

    One observation about the DNS is that the Voyageur support vehicle was in a fender bender on the far side of the Sunshine Skyway. The trailer distinctively matches the boat paint. It was not on the bridge but within a few miles of the bridge.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Yup you are right about the akas my wrong. Would like to know about those boards though.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  31. #66
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    That certainly looks like a pair of "boards". Never recognized that before.
    I'd certainly like to know.

    The picture in #63 clearly shows no carbon cloth on the inside of the boat. I must have misunderstood something from Skip.

    Does anyone know what the "shrouds" connect to and do? It is a puzzle in that they are mounted to the boat forward of the mast.
    Not at all typical configuration.
    But I have never seen where they are attached on the mast, so.....?

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Hmmm. Possibly the wooden inside, with "boards", is a different boat. I believe he had a Woodwind earlier.

    There is no cross beam for the leeboard pivot arm. I'll add a few more pictures from the beach.

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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!


  34. #69
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!


  35. #70
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    The two “boards” not sure what they are really are from this picture and this era. I agree with you the aka is new.

    B1FC505B-B0E5-42F3-A622-69D351895B89.jpg
    686F9D4F-5A9B-45BA-A78C-C63114E67220.jpg
    I would propose that the ‘twin boards’ are actually anchors or a folding anchor

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