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Thread: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Too bad the OP is biased against plywood shapes. He is missing out on some boats that meet his every goal of inexpensive, easy to build, easy to launch, easy to handle and high performance. Closer to real eldercare than any other I've seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8kUq4BouS0

    Retired doctor Frank Smoot brings some fresh ideas into sailing with his boats. Slingshot is a step up in performance. http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/14/...ot16/index.htm
    Tom L

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I talked to Dr. Smoot early in his design sequence.
    Basically he makes choices that limit the performance of his boats.
    He does have some interesting ideas.

    I built a plywood kayak, then made 5 strip planked kayaks, etc.
    Strip planked is not much more difficult if you don't use a clear finish, and I like the shapes much better - just an esthetic choice.

    I hope that is OK with everyone. And if not, I really don't care.

    Biased against plywood is a completely true description.
    Last edited by upchurchmr; 03-13-2019 at 07:44 PM.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    I talked to Dr. Smoot early in his design sequence.
    Basically he makes choices that limit the performance of his boats.
    He does have some interesting ideas.

    I built a plywood kayak, then made 5 strip planked kayaks, etc.
    Strip planked is not much more difficult if you don't use a clear finish, and I like the shapes much better - just an esthetic choice.

    I hope that is OK with everyone. And if not, I really don't care.

    Biased against plywood is a completely true description.
    Not to worry. Fish certainly agree with you as its very difficult to find a hard chine fish. I also like strip plank, molded veneer, lapstrake, other stuff like SOF or even paper as well as recognize the real value of fiberglass. As an engineer, I cannot escape knowing the fact that plywood is an excellent boatbuilding material from which high performance as well as beautiful boats are turned out in greater quantity than any other home building material. A competent and honest engineer cannot afford the luxury of bias toward any one material, no matter what is being built from boats to bridges to spacecraft (Morgan cars not withstanding). There is room for all individual preferences in the boatbuilding shop. Otherwise this would be a pretty boring forum.

    Like you, I followed and corresponded with Frank Smoot from nearly his beginning venture with the folding tri. Even bought his Slingshot plans before realizing I had outlived even that simple boat as a project for my use. I think his ideas are a lot better than his plans as he apparently has little idea of how a boat plan should be made in order to convey the needed information to a builder. Not hampered by any previous knowledge of sailing designs, some of his ideas are brilliant for their intended purpose.
    Tom L

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Frank is not actually a doctor. I believe he said he was a building contractor.
    He also didn't have any training in making plans, he sub-contracted that to someone else - so even the "poor" plans were not his fault (I haven't bought any of his).

    Interesting ideas are where you find them, and they aren't necessarily generated by those who are "qualified".

    As an engineer my self - recognizing the strengths of a material is completely different from what I like.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    I would propose that the ‘twin boards’ are actually anchors or a folding anchor
    Interesting idea,
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    The two “boards” not sure what they are really are from this picture and this era. I agree with you the aka is new. ...
    --- Could the two boards be a deep water and shallow water centerboard? (Instead of adjusting one board and changing CLR, you wholly raise the long board and lower a shallower board to maintain ideal aspect ratio and CLR? If you think of this boat designed FOR the Everglades Challenge, then it makes some sense give the varying water depths to be encountered, especially in Florida Bay and its very different choices of routes through vs around it. --Wade
    Last edited by wtarzia; 03-14-2019 at 01:43 PM.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Frank is not actually a doctor. I believe he said he was a building contractor.

    There are many varieties of Doctors. All I know is that Frank calls himself Doctor Frank and it doesn't matter to me one way or another. I just thought his ideas springing from no previous training or experience with sailing or design were novel and mostly workable. I did not like the mast raising rig in the first boat, mainly because it was too funky ugly to go on a boat,not because it did not work, which it does. We get a lot of proposals on this forum from people with a similar lack of knowledge but very few pass the test of practicality as well as his does.
    Tom L

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Dollars to Doughnuts the amas are stressed skin plywood as per the book. That's the default Gougeon solution to things like that.
    The independently pitching amas are also a classic Meade thing, having tried them first on Victor T in 1963 or thereabout. Reduces a lot of stess on the platform in a seaway and thus allows things to be kept light. The pivots are, however fairly highly loaded and probably have a fair bit of carbon fiber in them. Aka looks a lot like a runner plank, and is probably built the same way, if not actually being a repurposed runner plank.... Jan made many of them.
    Without stepping on any toes, I have wondered what a putting a Hobie Mirage drive in a boat that is better than an Adventure Island would be like.
    SHC

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I have wondered what a putting a Hobie Mirage drive in a boat that is better than an Adventure Island would be like.
    The Mirage Drive was used in the CLC Waterlust Sailing Canoe and there are several Waterlust videos about the boat.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Actually I'll take that bet for the donuts.
    Tortured ply or stressed skin has a limit on the size of the ply verses the minimum curvature radius that can be made.
    That AMA has a very small radius on the transom. Looks like something around 6" dia. Which would require a very thin, high quality plywood.
    Unfortunately, really thin ply does have a strength limit. Of course, a ply skin could be coated with glass, etc.

    I'd bet on strip planked, which has no such limit for geometry.

    Too bad this is all just guessing.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    Interesting idea,
    The notion that the two shiney metal objects in elderly care are boards has clearly niggled me.
    The idea that they are boards seams implausible
    why so close together
    why one slightly ahead of the other
    no top to the trunk to stop water coming in
    why is there no written evidence about them
    Mr Gougeon copied ideas over from one craft to another so why have these suddenly appeared

    I had looked up folding anchors and nothing that could be them came up. We use small folding grapples, fishermen’s and small danfords
    As my head hit the pillow last night I had the idea to look on Duckworks

    So, I don’t only propose they are two anchors I would further suggest they are Mantus folding anchors in a purpose build box so they are secure.

    https://smallboatsmonthly.com/articl...dinghy-anchor/

    2EC8ACEC-A9D1-4E68-9BF6-436671410F2C.jpg

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    why not just design your own tri Upchurch?

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Small sailboats that can carry an asymmetric spinnaker or a large headsail can generate heavy lee helm on a reach. Some designers or builders add a second centerboard forward of the main one to ease the helm which can get very tiring. These boards are a bit strange though and I've never see any others quite like them.
    Tom L

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Mark,

    I was a structural designer before retirement.
    Having a healthy ego, I always assumed I could design my own
    For 30+ years I thought about doing my own design.
    Finally realized I don't have the boat skills and understanding to do something I would be happy with.
    So I finally decided that it was getting late in life and I ought to just build something I admired.
    That also explains why I am interested in getting some actual data for dimensions, etc off the actual boat rather than doing a poor copy.
    Although I understand with the current situation I'll have to make some decisions which will lead me astray from the original design.
    Hopefully I won't bugger it up too much.

    As to why this boat, I basically cannot count on having a sailing partner. Being 67 I'm not interested in dealing with a bigger/ heavier boat.
    Having learned to sail on a Tornado catamaran I'm still addicted to the idea and feel of higher speed.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    G
    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Mark,

    I was a structural designer before retirement.
    Having a healthy ego, I always assumed I could design my own
    For 30+ years I thought about doing my own design.
    Finally realized I don't have the boat skills and understanding to do something I would be happy with.
    So I finally decided that it was getting late in life and I ought to just build something I admired.
    That also explains why I am interested in getting some actual data for dimensions, etc off the actual boat rather than doing a poor copy.
    Although I understand with the current situation I'll have to make some decisions which will lead me astray from the original design.
    Hopefully I won't bugger it up too much.

    As to why this boat, I basically cannot count on having a sailing partner. Being 67 I'm not interested in dealing with a bigger/ heavier boat.
    Having learned to sail on a Tornado catamaran I'm still addicted to the idea and feel of higher speed.
    and 67 you can’t have a thing of pure beauty when

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Tink,

    Huh?????

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Tink,

    Huh?????

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....
    Sorry replying on the move should have said

    AT 67 you can’t have a thing of pure beauty THEN when



  18. #88
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Lathrop View Post
    Small sailboats that can carry an asymmetric spinnaker or a large headsail can generate heavy lee helm on a reach. Some designers or builders add a second centerboard forward of the main one to ease the helm which can get very tiring. These boards are a bit strange though and I've never see any others quite like them.
    This type of reasoning crossed my mind, tweaking balance. This popped an idea into my mind, could a small board forward work as a dependable heave-to device? This thought was in conjunction with reading that Meade wanted to nap on occasion afloat. I am not saying this is what it is, just an idea for future experimentation.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    The notion that the two shiney metal objects in elderly care are boards has clearly niggled me.
    The idea that they are boards seams implausible
    why so close together
    why one slightly ahead of the other
    no top to the trunk to stop water coming in
    why is there no written evidence about them
    Mr Gougeon copied ideas over from one craft to another so why have these suddenly appeared

    I had looked up folding anchors and nothing that could be them came up. We use small folding grapples, fishermen’s and small danfords
    As my head hit the pillow last night I had the idea to look on Duckworks

    So, I don’t only propose they are two anchors I would further suggest they are Mantus folding anchors in a purpose build box so they are secure.

    https://smallboatsmonthly.com/articl...dinghy-anchor/

    2EC8ACEC-A9D1-4E68-9BF6-436671410F2C.jpg
    Tink, nice work, makes sense.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I'm intrigued that Meade chose to carry 2 identical collapsible anchors in his canoe. Good scouting, Tink.

    Mantus no longer makes this exact model (2-piece) anchor, though. They now make the 2.5 lb dinghy anchor either in one piece, galvanized, with a straight bar welded across the fluke, or in 3 pieces, 316L stainless, with a detachable shank and rollbar.

    But enough thread drift. Any more news on Elderly Care?

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Thread drift can bring up interesting subjects.
    But I'm still interested in the boat.

    Anyone know the story about the boat not being in the Everglades Challenge?

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    The boat was set up on the beach and appeared ready to go but for some reason did not start. Don't know more.

    Didn't engage the owner too much as he seemed rather busy.

    Woody

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