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Thread: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    I've tried pushing that one on others.

    I dislike plywood shapes.
    This one will be strip planked.

    Thanks
    At higher froude speeds these are capable of, a chined hull is more efficient hydrodynamically. A 'round' strip n glass boat will be heavier and slower.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 08-09-2018 at 08:00 AM.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I really appreciate the comments.

    But how hard is it that I like strip planked and Elderly care??
    If I wanted chines, I can put them in a strip planked boat, like the Chipmunk Kayak shown above.

    I really don't like plywood planked boats. I have a kayak that's done that way, I would get rid of it but my wife won't let me.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Try reaching out to Chris Ostlind.

    18ft Collage is strip plank but a bit more boat than Elderly Care:-





    He's designed quite a few small tri's of this type and sit on tops etc. Some were ply some were strip plank I think. Fast 17 was one. A18 I think another. Did some work with Watertribe to make an 'ideal EC boat'. Works on CAD which will benenfit strip plank.

    http://lunadadesign.net/category/trimarans/

    May have something in his locker just right or commision the design from him just how you want it.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 08-10-2018 at 04:47 AM.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I've watched Ostlind's illustrations for a long time.
    He dissappeared for about 10 years.
    One of the boats in an article on Duckworks was never finished.
    Duckworks said they were no longer carrying his designs when I inquired.
    There was a serious lack of anything but the illustrations.
    So I decided not to go there.

    Perhaps he has restarted. I'll wait to see if anyone builds something.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I think he suffered with some mental illness which wax and wanes. I'd imagine that it would be easier to manage off 'the internet'. None of us are perfect. I'd still consider reaching out through his email. You want that type of boat and it's clearly what he enjoys designing.

    Richard Woods might be worth talking to also. Does generally bigger stuff but knows his onions. Some of his are strip planked.

    The easiest thing to do might be to buy a Hobie Adventure Island. Easy resale too.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 08-10-2018 at 09:32 AM.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Edward,

    I want an Elderly Care clone.

    I don't want an illustration and I don't want plastic.

    I know everyone wants to help, but I've spent 40 years refining my desires.

    I'd be happy for you to reach out to Ostlind and report back. Don't do it for me.

    Marc

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Wade,
    Why does the motion have to be controlled?
    The motion will naturally be limited by the length of the ama on the wave formation.
    There is not going to be a lot of motion until you really shouldn't be out there.

    If you want control, why not fix the ama to the aka, and let torsion of the aka control position of the ama?
    --- I don't know. Maybe to avoid having the amas pinwheeling around the aka bearing in a weird situation? I suggest seeing if Alan Stewart will talk to you (he works at B&B Yacht Designs with Graham Byrnes, so e-mail him there). Alan is a nice guy, and if he is not going crazy with work or out cruising, I think he could explain some things -- he may well know about Elderly Care than any of us (he certainly studied it up close). He built his own version of Elderly Care (but you probably know that), sort of, though differing in some major ways (ama volume, particularly: he had to stow his whole rig inside the hull to paddle the boat as a kayak down a hundred miles of river in the Ultimate Florida Challenge). I believe he too used this line-limiter on the amas? Perhaps it adjusts the ama attitudes in different seas? I don't know....I am a solid-attachment ama man. -- Wade

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Thanks to everyone for suggestions.

    I did make contact with Skip Izon - the designer and builder of the hull.
    He seemed very willing to talk about the design, and is looking for the lines plans, templates, and building forms.
    The design was originally a 15'er which he had designed, then built for Meade Gougeon.
    The second iteration was stretched to 17' - which is the hull Meade used to win his class in the Everglades Challange.

    The boat is strip planked western red cedar, with graphite cloth inside and out in West epoxy (what else would he use? ).

    Meade then worked out and added the leeboards, rudder, crossarm and amas. And installed the mast and sailing gear.

    He's pretty busy with paying customers so it might be a while for the next report.

    Skipper (his signature) when we made Email contact said:
    "My main motivation here is to see what Meade and I worked on together extend into the future and I thank you for picking up the torch ."

    He had heard that possibly people at Gougeon Brothers were planning on building a number of these boats. Nothing for sure, but I will be checking.

    I think me "picking up the torch" is a little over the top, given my laziness but I was happy to find him easy to talk to, and his design concepts made sense to me.

    PS. he did say that Meade told him the boat did 15kts planing on a broad reach in moderate seas. Seemed pretty good with the small freestanding rig and the small ama's.
    Last edited by upchurchmr; 08-29-2018 at 08:39 PM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Thanks! You have gotten further than anyone on this topic, so far. If not 'picking up the torch' then at least shining a small, waterproof LED flashlight. :-) -- Wade

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Good news!
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Nice work.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Unexpected new update.

    Contacted Gougeon brothers and talked to Ben Gougeon, Meade's son.

    Apparently the boat is 19' not 17'.
    The boat was sailed in the last Everglades Challenge by Art Scharl, a friend of Meade. Which had been mentioned before.
    The boat is expected to be returned sometime in the future to Ben.

    It was believed that no actual plans exist at the Gougeon office, but Ben offered to look, and take pictures when the boat is returned.
    He also offered to help with information on where the other components were sourced (besides the hull).

    FYI, he believed that there was a plug for the 19' boat, but that it would require lots of work before a fiberglass hull could be pulled from it. Personally I'm not really interested in a glass boat.
    There also had been a plug for the earlier 15' boat, from which a couple of hulls have been made by their Community Boatbuilding Association.

    Ben also said he didn't know if the hull design was jointly "owned" by Skippy Izon and his dad, but he was immediately willing to say that I had permission to use the design, if any was needed. As I said before, Skippy believes the hull design was solely his, and has said the same thing.

    So everything is much more hopeful that 2 days ago, I just need to wait for more information.

    It's really remarkable the friendliness and helpfulness from Skippy and Ben for someone who called out of the blue.

    More as it comes.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    19’ long. That is exciting, confirms my instinct to go longer than the more prevalent 15-16’ length. I have been planning on my next sailing canoe being 18’, maybe that will stretch a bit. My current one is 16’ and it definitely feels short in the water.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Now all you need to do is use a hull which has a transom for straighter flow lines and less drag at the stern.

    At least that is my bias.

    I don't know how wide this hull is, but Meade was quoted as saying the hull was "really slippery".
    Perhaps you could use this hull as a sailing "canoe".

    Trying to scale from pictures, I'd guess the hull is about 41" wide. Lots of assumptions on that guess.
    Considering the use of amas, I wonder about using a narrower hull. With amas you don't really need as much restoring moment from width in the main hull.

    Have you thought about using the Bufflehead plans? I got a set, they are cheap, but they also are just a set of lines.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    I wonder if he meant plug or set of molds? At the beginning of the video, Skip's forms look like this:
    Capture.jpg
    Looks like both inner and outer forms with the planks held between. Not sure how this works. I just used staples on inside forms.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Looking for Gougeon "Elder Care" plans, modeling, anything!

    Ben Gougeon said plug, and seemed to indicate it would be used for a fiberglass hull.
    Skippy Izon talked about plans, templates, and forms - I imagine forms to be the same as the image you showed.
    He did suggest that building forms would be very expensive to ship and probably the best way would be to ship the templates.

    I don't know how the forms work in the video.
    As we go on I'll try to get an explanation. If so I'll relay it.
    My experience is with interior forms on a spine per Nick Schade building methods, similar to what I think you mean.

    Marc

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