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Thread: Plywood repair

  1. #1
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    Default Plywood repair

    My GlenL 15 has lots of cracks in the paint, that go into the plywood.
    What to do to get rid of them?
    ..... is there a way to remove nails without to much damage to the plywood ?
    20180730_153116.jpg
    Last edited by 2dogsnight; 08-01-2018 at 09:52 AM.
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    It just looks checked to me, not uncommon in plywood. I built a Glen-L Topper in the eighties of fir ply. It checked inside where painted, not outside where I rolled polyester resin. I would use filler on those checks. Sanding it clean, fill with thickened epoxy and coat with epoxy will likely solve the problem. Those nails may be ring nails (mine were) they won't come out.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Thank you John!
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    If they are ring shank nails and have to come out, get a very small one of these. I don't know if they are made smaller than 1/4". You will need to remove the head of the nail to minimize the hole made by the extractor.

    http://www.rockler.com/screw-extractor

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    There are actually three things that you can count on. Death, taxes and checks in fir plywood. I had the same problem. I just cleaned up the surface and covered the checks with glass and epoxy. It has been 6 years with no further checking.

    While I would never recommend CPES (because railing against it irritates the true believers) this is the best application for the stuff. OK, in this case maybe, but only in addition to John's recommendation. I would be surprised if John's recommendation lasts more than a year or two without adding a light layer of glass cloth to keep the checks in check. Even 2oz cloth does work. Kraft paper should work, but that experiment might prove more interesting than effective, so until I try it, I can't say it will work.

    Maybe a nail kicker? Not really for this problem because the wood around the nail looks good, but others might find the tool useful. I found that here: https://sawmillcreek.org/archive/ind.../t-124133.html Someone in that post also suggested a quarter shrinker, but in the unlikely event that it can extract a nail, the speed and direction are anybodies guess.
    Last edited by MN Dave; 08-01-2018 at 11:46 AM.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    I'm not sure that epoxy alone will cure checks that have already started. The dinghy I built with polyester (!) resin on it still looks good after 30 years.
    A replacement seat on WS is checked ply. I keep thinking I'll fill it, but I just paint it instead.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Trust me, mahogany plywood will check as well! The only way to avoid the problem is to glass it. Then you end up with a heavy boat and the seven year itch!
    This is one reason I prefer to build boats of traditional materials.
    Jay

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    I just wanted to make this boat look better - have some nice finish here and there.
    From what Dave, Dusty and John suggested - I think I would go with 1/4" screw extractor to just remove some plywood around the nail, pound it in deeper and install a bung.....then glass it, varnish it.

    glen1.jpg

    ….....but Jay got me thinking of taking the plywood deck off and replacing it with cedar strips. That would be a lot of work, but the result could be fantastic!
    Perfect project for long retirement years

    For now I will be using the boat in it's current stage.......
    Thank you for sharing your experience !!

    glen.jpg
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    took my Glen L for 4 hours on the water and we think that this may be our main boat. Designer recommends 7.5HP motor max. I have Johnson 7.5 on it and was pushing the boat fine. Have also 18HP Evinrude.....but short shaft. It will require cutting the transom. Not sure about that.....

    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Looks great!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    maybe a little too much bright finishes for me on this Glen L14, but rally like the seat and control console.
    Would like to make something similar, would go with removable side outboard controls......would still like to use as a sailboat sometime in the future.
    Glen L14 power3.jpg
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    glass the checked plywood with dynel or 6 oz. glass. Then paint.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldad View Post
    glass the checked plywood with dynel or 6 oz. glass. Then paint.
    that's the plan for sometime in the depths of coming winter
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Yevsky View Post
    If they are ring shank nails and have to come out, get a very small one of these. I don't know if they are made smaller than 1/4". You will need to remove the head of the nail to minimize the hole made by the extractor.

    http://www.rockler.com/screw-extractor
    just placed an order for the screw extractor.
    Here is what I did with a chisel, the extractor will make the job to complete much faster. Thank you Dusty !

    deck.jpg
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Couldn't help myself and bought 1977 Johnson 15 HP, electric start, battery charger, set up for remote control...……$600 - UPS shipped from AZ
    Want to set up Glen L as a motorboat......for now.

    s-l1600.jpg
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    ^^^ very nice, but don't you *have* a motorboat already...?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    ^^^ very nice, but don't you *have* a motorboat already...?
    ��
    Sad to say, but i am almost ready to give up on Fontana.......smaller boat gets more use...
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    started taking paint off the 1/4 plywood....seems to be a little soft....

    Glen L 1.jpg

    leaning toward taking the tape off to expose fasteners and install new decks - 1/4 marine plywood
    Glen 2.jpg
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Is it rotting or delaminating? If so then replacement sounds like a good idea.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Hmmm, ..... It certainly looks sound. Are you sure you're not just going at it to hard with the putty knife? I would suggest going with the grain rather than across it. it looks more like you are dropping into the softer wood in the grain. Putty knives across the grain on plywood are not often a recipe for success.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    Is it rotting or delaminating? If so then replacement sounds like a good idea.
    the decks are fine - yet, I would like to make them look better. - replace it with marine plywood - bright finish
    Started exposing the fasteners ...………
    Glen 4.jpg


    The transom is delaminating in one spot......didn't start on that yet, would like replace it with marine 3/4 plywood, bright finish. Don't think that delamination poses some significant strength issue …?......but I will be installing 15HP motor, right now running 7.5HP
    Glen 7.jpg

    There is a darker spot - AND on the outside there is lots of "goop" under the paint...….that will need to be addressed as well.
    Glen 6.jpg

    Boat will be stored in dry place, so maybe no glassing the decks, only transom.
    My kayak after using is so very slightly for 2 years, still looks good …...that's why leaning toward just varnish finish
    kayak 8.jpg
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Hmmm, ..... It certainly looks sound. Are you sure you're not just going at it to hard with the putty knife? I would suggest going with the grain rather than across it. it looks more like you are dropping into the softer wood in the grain. Putty knives across the grain on plywood are not often a recipe for success.
    Ned, the decks are fine....but.....I would like this boat to look "plywoody" - for me .
    At WBF I run into this home design/build plywood sailboat.....that's when I wanted to spruce up my Glen L a little. It will keep me busy during dark WA winter months
    Polish sailor 2 jpg.jpg
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    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    The fact that plywood has built in factors that cause it to self destruct is very frustrating for anyone who has to battle chances the surface checking, delamination and core rot that accompanies this material. Even so, there are the usual cures and prevention procedures that, most all of us are aware of that can stave off the demise of this product by dry rot and other horrors. "Do not go to the Big Red Box and buy bargain priced non marine plywood to build your dream boat!" Rather buy the best you can afford and be sure that it is marine grade ply, cut it to final fit shape and throughly saturate all surfaces with clear penetrating epoxy! If the panels are screw fastened, be sure to have dipped each fastening in bee's wax and shoot CPER into the, pre-drilled, fastening hole with a hypodermic syringe prior to driving the fastenings. Avoid using ring shank nails or you will hate yourself later! Be sure to have primed all surfaces that will not be glassed or covered with Dynel prior to fastening with a marine primer even though you have already used CPER before the primer. Use Luting/Bedding Compound on all faying surfaces. Remember that plywood acts like a diaphragm pump and will expand and contract with changes in temperature and humidity no matter how carfull you are in preparation. This action will suck in moisture in areas that you thought were well sealed. The cost of labor and time for repair then will often exceed the output for the original installation!
    Jay

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Thank you for the input Jay!
    I will be getting marine plywood trough Edensaw of Tacoma. Too bad they do not carry anything in stock here - have to bring orders from Port Towsand.
    Decks are 1/4" and transom 3/4. Still not sure what fasteners to use - screws or nails - 1/4" plywood pretty thin for screws I think....?
    Foggy and cold today - don't feel like working on the boat before heading out for work around 1pm...…

    boat shop.jpg
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    actually you can use #10 screws and sink the heads just below the surface. Follow up by using micro balloons and epoxy as a covering putty. let it stand proud and block sand it flush. The heads of the screws will give good holding and sheer resitance if you are not gluing the skin to the framing. Nails can be replaced with Monel staples which will go faster. I use Senco pnumatic staple guns for this. Gluing to the framing with G/Flex epoxy is a good way to go no matter what kind of fastenings you choose.
    Jay

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    I was thinking of gluing it to the frames, and using screws to fasten it (copper..?) ....and glass it. Bright finish on the decks and transom, paint the rest!
    Feel I should start new thread....this is getting more than "plywood repair"
    Thank you Jay!
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Question... if the decks are basically sound and the replacement is just for cosmetics why not just add another veneer instead of completely replacing the plywood?

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Chris, this is an excellent question. Never considered going this route...... wander what professionals would say to that.
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
    Chris, this is an excellent question. Never considered going this route...... wander what professionals would say to that.
    Me too Wojo.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Double planking the deck with a plywood overlay will add considerable weight to your boat if you will be using fir. A cubic foot of fir plywood is close to the specific gravity of solid white oak! Canvas makes a nice deck and does not weigh a lot. It is also non skid and easy on the anatomy when sat upon.
    Jay

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Double planking the deck with a plywood overlay will add considerable weight to your boat if you will be using fir. A cubic foot of fir plywood is close to the specific gravity of solid white oak! Canvas makes a nice deck and does not weigh a lot. It is also non skid and easy on the anatomy when sat upon.
    Jay
    Jay I was more thinking a 1/8" veneer of mahogany. Seems like that wouldn't add much weight? Since wojo wants to finish the decks bright that is. I'd probably canvas them myself but I do see the attraction of varnish here.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Jay I was more thinking a 1/8" veneer of mahogany. Seems like that wouldn't add much weight? Since wojo wants to finish the decks bright that is. I'd probably canvas them myself but I do see the attraction of varnish here.
    yes, no canvas here.....to me the old decks are functional, however I would like to take them down and installing new, along with coamings that are not there right now. Transom has a delamination that can be fixed - and on transom I would consider adding 1/8 plywood on the top of it.
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Hey, if 1/8" door skin will make you happy then go for it! Just let us know in a couple of years how it is holding up. You can be our official product tester of laminated wood. I, for one, am in favor of this approach as it may solve a long ongoing and frustrating problem for many of us!
    Jay

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Hey, if 1/8" door skin will make you happy then go for it! Just let us know in a couple of years how it is holding up. You can be our official product tester of laminated wood. I, for one, am in favor of this approach as it may solve a long ongoing and frustrating problem for many of us!
    Jay
    Replacing the decks and transom it is Jay ��
    1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    1985 Glen L15 - 1980 Johnson 7.5 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Plywood repair

    Good on ya buddy. Please post some pictures for us as the work progresses!
    Wishing you good fortune with your little ship!
    Jay aka Bird

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