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Thread: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

  1. #1
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    Default 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    After a long gap due to health issues I am finally able to stop designing boats and get on with some development work.

    I have discussed my cheap outriggers in a previous thread http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...nk#post5397542

    The concept is to not to permanently add much to my 12’ x 30” canoe to keep the purity of the paddling canoe. What I am working on is a proof of concept model. I have some good ply to make a ‘proper job’ of the design including outriggers when I am happy with the design.

    Next week my daughter is at the Optimist Nationals in north Wales and while she is sailing I will develop the concept. They go out for a good 4 or 5 hours so lots of sailing time for me in a lovely bay.

    Here are a few pictures of prep work I did today. The mainsheet now runs ice boat style leading from the mast, thick read rope. Also the halyard is cleated on the board partner and can be raised and lowered from the helming position.











    https://tinkboats.wordpress.com
    http://proasail.blogspot.co.uk
    What I get up to
    https://youtu.be/X9NZEyvpb_Y Streaker dinghy
    https://youtu.be/oni-3rJzxqQ Sail Canoe
    https://youtu.be/eW078PPgJak Proa
    Last edited by tink; 07-30-2018 at 02:24 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Unexpected hour back in the boatshed and completed the outriggers, yes very Heath Robinson but will get remade in ply once happy with the buoyancy. Added side and aft struts to stop and toe in of the floats. Still very quick to assemble.










    https://tinkboats.wordpress.com
    http://proasail.blogspot.co.uk
    What I get up to
    https://youtu.be/X9NZEyvpb_Y Streaker dinghy
    https://youtu.be/oni-3rJzxqQ Sail Canoe
    https://youtu.be/eW078PPgJak Proa
    Last edited by tink; 07-30-2018 at 02:25 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    Ongoing, no Wi-fi so full reports to follow ACBD9F6F-776E-4F97-9BDF-82B75471329A.jpg

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    Ongoing, no Wi-fi so full reports to follow ACBD9F6F-776E-4F97-9BDF-82B75471329A.jpg
    --- Nice ama 'dihedral' angle = no drag until the amas are truly needed. Randy Smyth does something similar on his EC racing tri, "Sissors."-- Wade

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    On the beach now as my mate further tests. Have now removed the inflatable part of the outrigger and just using the drain pipes as buoyancy. Works well for me
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    Had four days of testing with a test pilot, not yet the complete package but here is a video and some thoughts

    https://youtu.be/4EYRbl4NEZE

    General conclusion


    • Works well with smaller floats angled up. This allows weight steering and kiting off wind. Gybe scary with this configuration
    • Skeg helped off wind but weight and board steering lost sensitivity and could not be tacked effectively without using paddle
    • Performance improved with crew further back / weight in back - approximately 3 inches down by stern good
    • Ice boat style sheeting works well, very easy to trim sheet as it comes right in front of helm
    • Paddle is too cumbersome to be practical
    • Position of board relative to mast works well.

    Ideas

    • Use on IC rudder to test, push pull with friction lock
    • Turn hull around, this allows crew weight aft and attach mast and aka to existing yoke. Could return to permanent leeboard bracket.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    I got away, in a 16ft Outred Macgreggor, with a single plastic pipe amah with a small tramp. Sail was a 48 squ ft balanced lug. single leeboard. I was going to put it as a daggerboard permanently on the Amah side but in the end fitted the canoe with a smaller low profile dipping lateen. Slower but much more tractable. Don't need the Amah now.

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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I got away, in a 16ft Outred Macgreggor, with a single plastic pipe amah with a small tramp. Sail was a 48 squ ft balanced lug. single leeboard. I was going to put it as a daggerboard permanently on the Amah side but in the end fitted the canoe with a smaller low profile dipping lateen. Slower but much more tractable. Don't need the Amah now.
    I have sailed the canoe without outriggers on the lake without issue. Where I sail on the river the wind gets bounced about and as I am solo and remote don’t want to risk a swim. The high low volume amas are quick and simple and gives confidence. Great fun experimenting and pushing my comfort zone.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    I tried a Proa sail on the Mac, no rudder so you could shunt. Worked fine and useful when sailing on our narrow river with high banks. But it was just an experiment, the sail was only a plastic tarp and tape. Almost all of my canoe sailing is on a large shallow bay open to the sea and strong southerly changes. I have two other sailing dinghies.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    No no no I am a recovering Proaholic, I have overcome my thirty year obsession with proas. But then my canoe is symmetrical fore and aft and I have this idea itching away https://youtu.be/JyE0FsI_GAQ

    The canoe is just for river work, I also have two dinghies for proper sailing.

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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments


  12. #12
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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    The structure needs a lot of thought but can steer with the sail

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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    Fritz Fenger managed to cruise the Caribbean with his rudderless sailing canoe (ketch). I don't recall how easy it was for him to tack, but once the mizzen and adjustable centerboard was set, steering was done by main-sheet. Would a small mizzen help your manoeuvring?

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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    Quote Originally Posted by whiskeyfox View Post
    Fritz Fenger managed to cruise the Caribbean with his rudderless sailing canoe (ketch). I don't recall how easy it was for him to tack, but once the mizzen and adjustable centerboard was set, steering was done by main-sheet. Would a small mizzen help your manoeuvring?
    Fenger used a centreboard that could be moved fore and aft on Yakaboo, a lovely bit of design. I’m not anti rudders, just didn’t have thee stuff to make one while away and wanted to push the simplicity envelope. I think it is feasible to get away without the rudder but you would need a paddle and it is a hindrance on such a small canoe. A mizzen would help but I think that would be more complex than a rudder. I figure with what I have lying about I get a rudder up and running in an hour or so. Unfortunately lots of other commitments at the moment.

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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    I have a rudder controlled by a yoke and a continuous line round under the side decks. But you can steer with just moving the leeboard back and forth and shifting your own weight about. I carry a paddle stored under the side decks.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 12’ x 30” sailing canoe (with inflatable outriggers) developments

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I have a rudder controlled by a yoke and a continuous line round under the side decks. But you can steer with just moving the leeboard back and forth and shifting your own weight about. I carry a paddle stored under the side decks.
    With high amas and a skeg we could steer on all points of sail with board position and weight. The addition of the skeg drastically reduced the ability to use position and weigh to efficiently tack and usual required some intervention with the paddle. I will next try a simple rudder with continuous line.

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