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Thread: is this supplier selling expired stock?

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Just took delivery of 22kg Resorcinol glue (with hardener) from supplier in Brisbane (Nightingale Supply).
    On the resin container label there is this stamp: "B/N 03092015". The label on the hardener has "B/N 16032015".
    From this Im assuming the glue and hardener were made up in 2015 as these look like date stamps to me.
    Given that both have a (technical data sheet) stipulated shelf life of only 12 months when stored at/between 10 to 20 deg C, Im left wondering if this business sold me what initially looks like expired stock?

    I phoned the company straight away after I took delivery to discuss my concerns, but the manager was "in a meeting".
    I await a call from them tomorrow...but wont hold my breath on this one.

    Im rather peeved as we are ready to glue up the mast laminations.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    If the supplier is not the manufacturer, contact the manufacturer and check if those are date stamps and on the realistic shelf life.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Not suggesting to tell you what to do Bernadette, and I know all discussions of resourciol talk of it’s sensative shelf life,.......however,.... after talking with the manufacturer I actually used resoucinol that I had for ten years (yep, 10 years). Granted it had always been well sealed and in a very stable temperature (about 19c). That was four years ago and everything is still fine. I also did not use it anywhere that was stuructural. ..... just saying that the ‘one year’ shelf life may not be a total hard line in the sand.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Since this is or your mast I would definitely check with the manufacturer...not the distributor. Maybe the manufacturers rep won't be "in a meeting"?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Ohhhh, ........ I missed this was for your mast Bernadette, ............ Not sure I'd recommend my ten year old stuff.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Ned, we have our own "old" supply of (four years) resorcinol from a very reputable Australian manufacturer (MZ3 in West Australia) that we unfortunately cannot use. This manufacturer is currently not making any new glue at present. Hence the reason I wanted "fresh" glue and yes, given that its for the mast, its absolutely paramount we use 'in date' glue. I want to use resorcinol as I want to bright work the masts.


    We have contacted the supplier who initially informed us that a "mistake" was made in the labelling! I dont believe this at all. This is a huge cop out in my opinion.

    The manager of the supply company was supposed to call us back but never did. Andrew called the company and then the company's 'rep' who is allegedly getting in contact with the manufacturer to get a batch date etc. What doesn't sound right to me is that the supplier doesn't have these pertinent details to hand and needs to contact the manufacturer to obtain this basic but vital information only when someone asks. If it was a labelling mistake in the first instance then they should be able to provide dates and batch numbers immediately to rectify the problem. The website of the supplier has Technical Data Sheets which stipulate storage temperatures and longevity of the product but thats about as fare as due care seems to go.

    Anyhow, its not looking good so far as Im concerned. I need a watertight, 100%, absolute, exact reassurance and proof the glue is in date but I cant see this happening.
    Im very very annoyed. This is causing me a lot of frustration, angst and disappointment.
    Last edited by Bernadette; 09-16-2018 at 04:07 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Write to the supplier advising them that unless they can provide paperwork from the manufacturer that satisfies you, you want a refund for the cost of substandard goods.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    yes, Nick, thats very much what I need to do. in the meantime, im looking for a new supplier.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    yes, Nick, thats very much what I need to do. in the meantime, im looking for a new supplier.
    I recently had the same frustrating experience with an outfit called Aircraft Spruce, they sold me a gallon of glue that was a month away from the expiration date. I was surprised at how reluctant they were to take it back. Even after I returned the glue I had to remind then to credit my card, which they eventually did but without the shipping charge. This is an outfit specializing in aircraft construction so you might think their quality control would be better. Apparently, they buy the glue in fifty-five gallon drums and decant it into gallon bottles. I found a better supplier who specializes in glues and adhesives.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    I recently had the same frustrating experience with an outfit called Aircraft Spruce, they sold me a gallon of glue that was a month away from the expiration date. I was surprised at how reluctant they were to take it back. Even after I returned the glue I had to remind then to credit my card, which they eventually did but without the shipping charge. This is an outfit specializing in aircraft construction so you might think their quality control would be better. Apparently, they buy the glue in fifty-five gallon drums and decant it into gallon bottles. I found a better supplier who specializes in glues and adhesives.

    Jim, thats the sort of behaviour I just don't understand about the on-suppliers...they leave themselves wide open for all sorts of litigation if they sell a product that is not what its been described as...

  11. #11
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Send a letter to the Trade Practices guys. Shut these fraudsters down.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    It's a pity Larks hasn't joined this conversation. He knows a lot about the local industry and supply chain. He might have useful knowledge and advice. Maybe pm him.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    The company has had all of today to rectify the matter but no email or phone call. Cant be too hard to get a batch number and DOM?
    I'll be letting them know Im sending the product back at their expense and will be wanting a full refund.
    I have no confidence in the product nor the supplier.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    An update.

    after much tooing and froing...and Peter not talking to Paul type behaviour from Nightingale Supply...I have finally got the sales person to admit the company did make the "mistake" as its been termed (aka selling me out of date stock) and that they will accept the return of the goods.

    This was only after they sent me some random 'batch' numbers supposedly form their supplier, Jowat. I was also told to contact Jowat direct to verify the batch numbers.
    This seemed rather futile so I did not call Jowat.

    BUT!

    I have sent the goods back but will not get a refund until the goods have been "inspected" on return. If they applied any amount of due diligence before I was sold the goods, none of this would have occurred. They have requested "certification" from me that the goods have not been contaminated.

    Nightingale Supply sent the 20 kg Resorcinol base resin in a plastic drum with no lockable cap and 4 bags of hardener powder in zip lock bags in the bottom of an oversized flimsy cardboard box...none of which had any hazardous goods labelling.

    Still waiting on my money.

    Ive done an international search and have found many companies do not "export" (which is understandable).

    There is a few options open to me.

    Alansons in the UK are making initial costings for freight/shipping to Australia (likely to be expensive).

    MZ3 (Doug) in Perth, Western Australia will be making a new batch in late 2018 or early 2019. His only stumbling block at present is that he is trying to get in a supply of Macadamia Nut shell for the base in less than 20 tonne lots. I will probably hold of glueing up until he has made his new batch.

    Alansons and MZ3 have been most helpful.
    Last edited by Bernadette; 08-18-2018 at 12:07 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Nightmare Supply! Hilarious that they want it returned undamaged, presumably so that they can sell it on to someone else. Must be someone up in Qld who can supply small batches of macadamia nut shells. Macadamia nut shells, really, who'd have thought it. And cockroach shells for making shellac. Oh for the old ways. Good luck.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Hmm. Run some shells through a coffee grinder a few times. What else is needed?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  17. #17
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Nightmare Supply! Hilarious that they want it returned undamaged, presumably so that they can sell it on to someone else. Must be someone up in Qld who can supply small batches of macadamia nut shells. Macadamia nut shells, really, who'd have thought it. And cockroach shells for making shellac. Oh for the old ways. Good luck.
    its always been made with macadamia nut shells for as long ive known...


    yeah, "nightmare" supply will 100% sell it on to someone else.

    The glue might have been ok but the gamble was 50:50. I didnt want to use it on such a critical component in the yacht without being 100% certain it was in date stock.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Send a letter to the Trade Practices guys. Shut these fraudsters down.
    https://www.qld.gov.au/law/your-righ...umer-complaint
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    its always been made with macadamia nut shells for as long ive known...


    yeah, "nightmare" supply will 100% sell it on to someone else.

    The glue might have been ok but the gamble was 50:50. I didnt want to use it on such a critical component in the yacht without being 100% certain it was in date stock.
    Absolutely. 50/50 is not good enough!

  20. #20
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    to add to the slackness...

    Queensland Parcel Express have still not delivered the returned goods to Nightingale Supply which were picked up on form my place on 13 August.

    ....the "she'll be right attitude" and the saying "no problems, mate" delivered Ad nauseam these days, really doesn't cut it.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    I too have experienced such. very frustrating

  22. #22
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    to add to the slackness...

    Queensland Parcel Express have still not delivered the returned goods to Nightingale Supply which were picked up on form my place on 13 August.

    ....the "she'll be right attitude" and the saying "no problems, mate" delivered Ad nauseam these days, really doesn't cut it.
    Queensland. Colourful shirts, but yeah.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Last update on Nightingale Supply...a most unreliable and deceitful company....

    the glue was finally returned by the freight company(Qld Parcel Express) to Nightingale Supply after 2 weeks.

    Andrew called Nightingale on a number of occasions but for various reasons given by the receptionist, was not able to speak to the manager, so he called very early one morning and got hold of him.
    We eventually got part of our money back but not the freight component.

    I called the manager very early the next day and his excuse for not refunding the money for the freight was that we were sending back perfectly good glue! I told him that he had no right to "spend our money" and that the glue was not in date as per the label. He told me that we had been given every opportunity to call their supplier to verify the so called batch numbers!.....Talk about deflecting responsibility for products sold under your company name.

    All up his attitude was one of complete disinterest in admitting they sold us glue with an "expired" date stamp. It has been most difficult dealing with this company from the outset. They don't return calls, don't answer emails and always the person you need to talk to is away, at meetings or similar. The receptionist is curt, has no telephone etiquette and very good at deflecting our enquiries.
    They never accepted responsibility for sending out glue with an expired date stamp and did not make any effort to make restitution. We had to drag them through the process the entire time.

    So in short, anyone in the Queensland/Brisbane region (or indeed elsewhere): I do not recommend you deal with Nightingale Supply...a most deceitful and unreliable company.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    That company sux, and thanks for warning us. Wouldn't want to be in their shoes because all that bad evilness they've been dishing out will eventually head back their way.

    Now that you have come to the end of this episode I hope you can get back to some good boat building time.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    I am waiting on Doug at MZ3 in Perth to get his new batch of glue underway. He says he should have it done by early next year at the latest, hopefully.

    The problems with the glue from Nightingale did stop us in our tracks with mast building. We had it all ready to glue up, but understandably, did not use the glue given its dubious shelf life. So for now its sitting on top of the mast jig waiting for when I return home and when I can get some glue.

    I expect Nightingale get their fair share of disgruntled customers simply because of the shoddy manner in which they operate on a day to day basis. There was nothing special about my order. I think its more a matter of time before they come to grief on a more serious nature. They will be their own undoing.

    Happy to get the bad word out. I think its important to do so. The trust placed in the company to do the right thing was not forthcoming. I mean after all, I gave them money that was legitimate and therefore I should have got what I paid for.
    Last edited by Bernadette; 09-16-2018 at 04:05 AM.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    I'm having trouble with old glue too, it's not quite holding together a boat built in 1961.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    Last update on Nightingale Supply...a most unreliable and deceitful company....

    the glue was finally returned by the freight company(Qld Parcel Express) to Nightingale Supply after 2 weeks.

    Andrew called Nightingale on a number of occasions but for various reasons given by the receptionist, was not able to speak to the manager, so he called very early one morning and got hold of him.
    We eventually got part of our money back but not the freight component.

    I called the manager very early the next day and his excuse for not refunding the money for the freight was that we were sending back perfectly good glue! I told him that he had no right to "spend our money" and that the glue was not in date as per the label. He told me that we had been given every opportunity to call their supplier to verify the so called batch numbers!.....Talk about deflecting responsibility for products sold under your company name.

    All up his attitude was one of complete disinterest in admitting they sold us glue with an "expired" date stamp. It has been most difficult dealing with this company from the outset. They don't return calls, don't answer emails and always the person you need to talk to is away, at meetings or similar. The receptionist is curt, has no telephone etiquette and very good at deflecting our enquiries.
    They never accepted responsibility for sending out glue with an expired date stamp and did not make any effort to make restitution. We had to drag them through the process the entire time.

    So in short, anyone in the Queensland/Brisbane region (or indeed elsewhere): I do not recommend you deal with Nightingale Supply...a most deceitful and unreliable company.
    A credit card dispute would likely have gotten all the charges reversed. (A good reason to pay via credit card) return shipping would probably still be on you but none of the rest.
    Tom

  28. #28
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    I am waiting on Doug at MZ3 in Perth to get his new batch of glue underway. He says he should have it done by early next year at the latest, hopefully.

    The problems with the glue from Nightingale did stop us in our tracks with mast building. We had it all ready to glue up, but understandably, did not use the glue given its dubious shelf life. So for now its sitting on top of the mast jig waiting for when I return home and when I can get some glue.

    I expect Nightingale get their fair share of disgruntled customers simply because of the shoddy manner in which they operate on a day to day basis. There was nothing special about my order. I think its more a matter of time before they come to grief on a more serious nature. They will be their own undoing.

    Happy to get the bad word out. I think its important to do so. The trust placed in the company to do the right thing was not forthcoming. I mean after all, I gave them money that was legitimate and therefore I should have got what I paid for.
    Better to have found out now rather than when your mast fails at sea. They are playing Russian Roulette with people's lives. I do urge you to report them to the proper authorities.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Thanks for the warning about Nightingale's resorcinol, I was planning on buy some myself.
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Better to have found out now rather than when your mast fails at sea. They are playing Russian Roulette with people's lives. I do urge you to report them to the proper authorities.
    Phil, perhaps if I was home and had the time and energy I would. They certainly deserve to be taken to task on the matter. However, Im out bush, working again, and I am trying my hardest to keep going out here. Its very very difficult circumstances here and I have only just enough in me to do the job required. Im out of pocket by around $70. Not much in the scheme of things but potentially more on principle.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: is this supplier selling expired stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Thanks for the warning about Nightingale's resorcinol, I was planning on buy some myself.
    maybe you could call them and make an "enquiry" about there glue? I bet they tell you the same baloney I was told: the turn around on their glue is about 6 weeks so yes, they can give you fresh stock.
    If they've got the smarts about them, they will have changed the batch date stamp from 2015 to 2018. According them them, this was initially just a "mistake" made by their staff and in no way reflected the age of the product...!!!!!
    its a gamble either way.

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