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Thread: Ordering from Amazon?

  1. #1
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    Default Ordering from Amazon?

    Seems there is a strike afoot. While I was raised a good Ayn fearing libertarian I do believe the amazon workers have a point.

    https://www.inverse.com/article/4692...lkout-in-spain

    Thought some of you progs might be interested or maybe already knew. The pay discrepancy is astounding.

    I for one will be trying to locally source some bulk bungie cord without hooks.

    Cheers,
    Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
    TOM ROBBINS, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues



  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by switters View Post
    Seems there is a strike afoot. While I was raised a good Ayn fearing libertarian I do believe the amazon workers have a point.

    https://www.inverse.com/article/4692...lkout-in-spain

    Thought some of you progs might be interested or maybe already knew. The pay discrepancy is astounding.

    I for one will be trying to locally source some bulk bungie cord without hooks.

    Cheers,
    Ayn fearing libertarian, progs in the same sentence with workers and pay discrepancy. What will the world come to?
    PaulF

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Ayn is/was a MORON.
    Rattling the teacups.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Since Amazon helped to destroy my livelihood as a writer, I buy as little as possible there.

    Instead, I use Amazon for browsing, then find another supplier.

    Hope the strikers prevail in getting a fair shake.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! ŚCole Porter

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Ayn is/was a MORON.
    Yes, that is true.
    PaulF

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    ^ & is being all to kind to Ayn..


    glad you're going elsewhere switters.. and I like and use your method Chip-skiff.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    When I build my time machine, I'll go back to St Petersburg and buy young Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum and her family tickets to the US in early 1914, before both WWI and the revolution. Maybe Los Angeles; she'd maybe like it there, have a much happier life, wouldn't change her name, and wouldn't write those silly books.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 07-12-2018 at 10:48 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Ayn is/was a MORON.
    Ayn Smith was a Mormon, I think he's talking about Ayn Rand.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Ayn Smith was a Mormon, I think he's talking about Ayn Rand.
    Ayn Rand was a MORON.

    Clear enough?
    Rattling the teacups.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Nice diversion oz, you got stock in Amazon?
    Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
    TOM ROBBINS, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues



  11. #11
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    The efficiencies of loosely regulated late-stage capitalism provide benefits to consumers and shareholders, but not to the workers who actually provide the service? Goodness gracious me, I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

    What are you doing about it?




  12. #12
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by switters View Post
    Nice diversion oz, you got stock in Amazon?
    No.

    I don't need any financial incentive to say that Ayn Rand is a MORON, do you?
    Rattling the teacups.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    The efficiencies of loosely regulated late-stage capitalism provide benefits to consumers and shareholders, but not to the workers who actually provide the service? Goodness gracious me, I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
    Late stage, early stage, it makes no difference.... the robber barons of the Gilded Age were no different.

    My perspective: capitalism is the greatest economic system the world has ever seen.... but UNREGULATED capitalism is unquestionably the worst.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  14. #14
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    But who gets to do the regulating?

    Keep in mind that John Galt was union organizer. He was organizing against corporations using the government to pass laws that made labor less valuable.

    Obviously there is a lot of that going on now. I am certainly not advocating a read of Atlas Shrugged for anyone. But she had part of it right.

    Regulated capitalism, who gets to regulate?
    Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
    TOM ROBBINS, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues



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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by switters View Post
    Seems there is a strike afoot. While I was raised a good Ayn fearing libertarian I do believe the amazon workers have a point.
    The workers always have the option of going elsewhere.

    I think work should be more pleasant so I would never work under those conditions. I would not ask them to work under those conditions.

    (As I write this I am reminded that I will be spending several days working under much worse conditions this fall. For less compensation.)
    Life is complex.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Or they could collectively bargain.

    They should be allowed to collectively bargain.

    http://time.com/956/how-amazon-crush...nion-movement/
    Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
    TOM ROBBINS, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues



  17. #17
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by switters View Post
    But who gets to do the regulating?

    Keep in mind that John Galt was union organizer. He was organizing against corporations using the government to pass laws that made labor less valuable.

    Obviously there is a lot of that going on now. I am certainly not advocating a read of Atlas Shrugged for anyone. But she had part of it right.

    Regulated capitalism, who gets to regulate?
    The government gets to regulate, until the corporations buy the government, in which case, the corporations become the government, which is the Mussolini Fascists' Ideal.

    I think one of the central problems in this country is that we were bamboozled into believing that Capitalism is a system of Government, just like Communism.


    A self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one.


    Driven by our fear of the Russian Communists for 70 years, we are now teetering on the brink of becoming Mussolini Fascists dominated by Russian propaganda/election fraud.

    Home of the brave?

    Don't make me laugh.
    Rattling the teacups.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by switters View Post
    Or they could collectively bargain.

    They should be allowed to collectively bargain.
    They are allowed to. But just not with their current employer.

    I don't see where those who don't want to bargain collectively should be required to. On both sides - employees and the employer.
    Life is complex.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Allowing employers to opt out of collective bargaining rather defeats the purpose, thereby keeping power securely in the hands of the capitalists and out of the hands of labour. Allowing some employees to opt out undermines the purpose as well.

    While some people have no problem with this, I do. Frankly, I think all labour should be organized... by law.

    What are you doing about it?




  20. #20
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Allowing employers to opt out of collective bargaining rather defeats the purpose, thereby keeping power securely in the hands of the capitalists and out of the hands of labour. Allowing some employees to opt out undermines the purpose as well.

    While some people have no problem with this, I do. Frankly, I think all labour should be organized... by law.
    Behind your view is the assumption that people should work for others. Also an assumption that a group of employees have the similar skills and needs needs. I don't accept those assumptions.

    I am for people being self employed. I don't see any reason to be an employee of another unless it provides an advantage. I also don't see any value in being considered interchangeable with others (as an employee).
    Life is complex.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Behind your view is the assumption that people should work for others.
    Nope. Behind my view is the recognition that people DO work for others.

    When that changes, so will my view. There's no "should" about it.

    What are you doing about it?




  22. #22
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Maybe that's when America was Great for reds - pre AMZN, GOOG, MSFT, INTL, AAPL, BitCoin, etc.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Nope. Behind my view is the recognition that people DO work for others.

    When that changes, so will my view. There's no "should" about it.
    People are taught that they should work for others. Until that teaching is changed, your views need not change. But the assumption that people should work for others is behind the reality that they do.
    Life is complex.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    People are taught that they should work for others. Until that teaching is changed, your views need not change. But the assumption that people should work for others is behind the reality that they do.
    Hogwash and gobbledegook (ęGL).
    Rattling the teacups.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The workers always have the option of going elsewhere.
    Unsure about Amazon, but this is not necessarily true. Do some research on non-compete clauses and how they are being used on millions of low wage/low skill workers across America, effectively hobbling their ability to improve their economic situation. It's crazy.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    Unsure about Amazon, but this is not necessarily true. Do some research on non-compete clauses and how they are being used on millions of low wage/low skill workers across America, effectively hobbling their ability to improve their economic situation. It's crazy.
    I am told such clauses exist. They don't seem to be enforceable.
    Life is complex.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Hogwash and gobbledegook (ęGL).
    Well argued.
    Life is complex.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I am told such clauses exist. They don't seem to be enforceable.
    The courts disagree with you.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Well argued.
    Doesn't take much to reduce your position to rubble, so why waste the time?
    Rattling the teacups.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    People are taught that they should work for others. Until that teaching is changed, your views need not change. But the assumption that people should work for others is behind the reality that they do.
    Riiiiiiight. And behind every harmful fall is the assumption that gravity works.

    Someday we might get around that. And someday the vast majority of people might get around the need to work for others in order to live in our society. But that day ain't today, and your holier-than-thou asininity ain't putting food on anyone else's table.

    What are you doing about it?




  31. #31
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Riiiiiiight. And behind every harmful fall is the assumption that gravity works.

    Someday we might get around that. And someday the vast majority of people might get around the need to work for others in order to live in our society. But that day ain't today, and your holier-than-thou asininity ain't putting food on anyone else's table.
    The need to work for others is central to the very idea of a 'society'.

    ANY society.

    The idea that one can 'work for oneself' is patently absurd, unless one lives alone in a vast wilderness.

    One may be 'self-employed', but one will die of starvation if one doesn't work for others.

    That is the human condition.

    Humans are social animals, utterly dependent upon society.

    People who believe that they are somehow unconstrained by this are leeches, either witting or unwitting. The unwitting variety are more common, because they need to protect their little snowflake psyches from the brutal truth that they are a burden on society. The unwitting rarely rise above upper-middle-class economic status, but the witting leeches are able to take things a step further and amass enormous fortunes upon the labor and pain and deprivation of others.

    This is not to say that all wealthy people are monsters.
    Rattling the teacups.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    The courts disagree with you.
    And the internet agrees with me.
    Because non-compete agreements are so restrictive, they are often restricted or not enforceable. In California, non-competes are effectively illegal unless you are selling a business. Other states will enforce some provisions, usually the trade secret protection, but not the work restrictions.
    Life is complex.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    The idea that one can 'work for oneself' is patently absurd, unless one lives alone in a vast wilderness.

    One may be 'self-employed', but one will die of starvation if one doesn't work for others.
    That is clever of you. To distort the obvious employee v. self-employed issue into one where self-employed means self-sufficient.

    Like many people here I own a small part of several publicly traded businesses. In that part of our lives we don't work for others. We "amass enormous fortunes upon the labor and pain and deprivation of others." I think the "others" - employees, should start their own businesses - be self-employed, rather than work for others.

    Distortion is fun.
    Life is complex.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    About eight years ago I purchased my sole item from Amazon. I could not get it anywhere else. Amazon is within walking distance; it is destroying this town.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Ordering from Amazon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Originally Posted by oznabrag

    The idea that one can 'work for oneself' is patently absurd, unless one lives alone in a vast wilderness.

    One may be 'self-employed', but one will die of starvation if one doesn't work for others.
    That is clever of you. To distort the obvious employee v. self-employed issue into one where self-employed means self-sufficient.

    Like many people here I own a small part of several publicly traded businesses. In that part of our lives we don't work for others. We "amass enormous fortunes upon the labor and pain and deprivation of others." I think the "others" - employees, should start their own businesses - be self-employed, rather than work for others.

    Distortion is fun.
    Clearly, you have fun distorting.

    Your interminable pretzel sophistry is tedious.

    Back onto the Ignore List with you.
    Rattling the teacups.

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