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Thread: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

  1. #1
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    Default Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    I'm not big on chasing lost causes.

    For one thing, I don't believe that the Democrats will be able to stop Kavanaugh's confirmation in the Senate. Much has been said about Collins and Murkowski being possible 'no' votes, but the three other Democratic senators from Red states are unlikely to jeopardize their seats on this one.

    Secondly, it's not even sure that Roe v. Wade will be overturned.... regardless, it's essentially dead already. Think about it: well over 60% of the population supports Roe v. Wade... overturning it gives the Democrats a very strong, popularly supported argument for the next election, and the one before that. Politically, it's a bad idea to give the opposition a popularly supported argument.

    Instead, Republicans have already defenestrated Roe, and will continue to do so, by Supreme Court decisions that effectively chip away at the constitutional right by instituting ever more onerous restrictions on the right. Already, many women in Texas are functionally incapable of obtaining an abortion, by a number of decisions that make it impossible to obtain... without enough money to travel hundreds of miles to jurisdictions that make it more possible.

    It's the wrong cause to fight, at this moment in time. A much more important argument has to do with Kavanaugh's writings, in which he virtually implies that a President is essentially above the law, with the sole exception being impeachment. He's written that he doesn't think that presidents should be 'encumbered' by being subjected to civil or criminal actions... and that a President has, or should have, the authority to shut down any such investigation against him.

    To be fair, Benjamin Wittes argues that, in other writings, Kavanaugh seems to accept that a President could be subject to these things.... but considering that we may only be months away from a constitutional crisis in which a rogue President like Trump might actually attempt to fire and cut off the current investigation.... and the Supreme Court would VERY likely be called upon to decide the constitutionality of the situation.

    It's a very disturbing thought: imagine, if you will, a hypothetical situation in which a President, with a Supreme Court majority, as well as a congressional majority, decides to commit acts considered to be criminal... and he holds the levers of power to permit him to do so.. there would be absolutely NO check on his actions, not even impeachment.. aside from the next election cycle.

    Is that hypothetical very far from the actual truth of the current situation?
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  2. #2
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    why on earth would they forget about a cash-cow issue in an election year?
    No adversary is worse than bad advice.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    I'm not big on chasing lost causes.

    Is that hypothetical very far from the actual truth of the current situation?
    Yes, but i heard on msnbs and Cnnn that confirming Kavanaugh will mean the end of the world.

    Women and children hardest hit.
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Maybe not the ends of the world. Trump is already working on that.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    there would be absolutely NO check on his actions, not even impeachment.. aside from the next election cycle.

    Is that hypothetical very far from the actual truth of the current situation?
    You crack me up.

    What criminally-empowered 'president' is going to allow elections?

    Wake up, Norman.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Yes, but i heard on msnbs and Cnnn that confirming Kavanaugh will mean the end of the world.

    Women and children hardest hit.
    How many rubles/post is it, these days?
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    it would be interesting to see into the distant future and what it would say about all of the abortion debate stuff. in 200 years, do you imagine as a society we're all still supporting abortions or do you imagine we have provided education and contraception in a manner that there are no "unwanted" pregnancies anymore and have thus made abortion murder of some sort?

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Is that hypothetical very far from the actual truth of the current situation?
    Is it still over the top to call him a fascist?
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    "The problem with the progressives and liberals right now is that they are still treating this situation like we are in a state of normalcy."
    You've got far greater problems than Roe vs Wade, Norman. But this quote nails it. The Reps/'baggers are at war. Literally. They intend to destroy America - as in dead people. And they hold all the aces.

    This Is Not A Freaking Drill!

    Good Gawd, what will it take to wake you people up.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    it's going to take more hyperbole and sky falling. i suggest you stay on top of it.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    I don't think they should forget about Roe. I do believe they should not make that their number one argument.

    Courts are dealing with the separation of families at the border. This issue is apt to reach the Supreme court first, and if Trump has 5 conservative justices, they will overturn lower court decisions demanding families be reunited.

    Women will likely lose the right to abortion, and also contraception. I expect any lawsuit, be it for discrimination, harassment, etc. at work, will be decided against the woman.

    Voting rights are in danger. I fear a court that will uphold gerrymandering, ID laws, etc. that are aimed at certain parts of the population.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    it would be interesting to see into the distant future and what it would say about all of the abortion debate stuff. in 200 years, do you imagine as a society we're all still supporting abortions or do you imagine we have provided education and contraception in a manner that there are no "unwanted" pregnancies anymore and have thus made abortion murder of some sort?
    Why?
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    "The problem with the progressives and liberals right now is that they are still treating this situation like we are in a state of normalcy."
    You've got far greater problems than Roe vs Wade, Norman. But this quote nails it. The Reps/'baggers are at war. Literally. They intend to destroy America - as in dead people. And they hold all the aces.

    This Is Not A Freaking Drill!

    Good Gawd, what will it take to wake you people up.
    Where did that quote come from, Bobby?


    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    it's going to take more hyperbole and sky falling. i suggest you stay on top of it.
    I see you're doing your part to lull the libtards into a false sense of security.

    Bout what I expected.
    Rattling the teacups.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    ^ an article in RawStory, I believe.. let me see if I can find it.

    Found it - Rawstory was reposting Salon - https://www.salon.com/2018/07/09/mal...ublic-forever/
    Last edited by Durnik; 07-11-2018 at 10:33 AM. Reason: freaking old kbd..

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade
    and gun control too

    face it liberals suck and have lost
    people like norm and i should just give up our white guilt and embrace a fascist america that will work for us best anyway
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Why?

    why?

    b/c the advanced society has determined life begins before birth. and if all pregnancy is avoidable unless wanted at the time of conception, then any attempt to abort would be murder.

    i imagine society in general will value life more and more as time goes on. just look at where we are today vs 100, 200, 500 years ago. so why would you assume they won't value unborn life more as time goes on? i suppose it could run the other way and there's drive-thru abortion clinics on every corner in 200 years. but that doesn't seem like a future we should strive for.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    b/c the advanced society
    list these so called advanced societies please

    and on what philosophical basis has it been deemed that life begins before birth?

    serious inquiries ^
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    list these so called advanced societies please

    and on what philosophical basis has it been deemed that life begins before birth?

    serious inquiries ^
    serious inquiry huh? you want me to list societies that do not exist yet? 2-3 hundred years in the future?

    if we found a hydrocarbon molecule on Mars we would declare "LIFE FOUND ON MARS". but fetuses aren't life?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    the advanced society (<- stop it, yer Killing me!) has determined life begins before birth
    What a hoot.. don't tell them life (possibly singular) began likely 4,000,000,000 years ago - and has been an unbroken stream ever since. 'Life Begins' - Hah!

    Does that 'advanced society' recognize that for various reasons something like something like 2/3rds of fertilized eggs never develop? Murder Most Heinous - by their gawd fantasy even! Or, that a woman ovulating 12 x / yr, for maybe 30 yrs drops 360 eggs.. and maybe 5 kids? The eggs are alive.. Murder Most Heinous! Or, that a woman is born with all her eggs (as protos).. so killing a fertile woman is - you guessed it, Murder Most Heinous! Instead, sadly, the 'advanced society' sees women as less than men..

    It's a hoot when religion cherry picks science to justify its insanity.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    What a hoot.. don't tell them life (possibly singular) began likely 4,000,000,000 years ago - and has been an unbroken stream ever since. 'Life Begins' - Hah!

    Does that 'advanced society' recognize that for various reasons something like something like 2/3rds of fertilized eggs never develop? Murder Most Heinous - by their gawd fantasy even! Or, that a woman ovulating 12 x / yr, for maybe 30 yrs drops 360 eggs.. and maybe 5 kids? The eggs are alive.. Murder Most Heinous! Or, that a woman is born with all her eggs (as protos).. so killing a fertile woman is - you guessed it, Murder Most Heinous! Instead, sadly, the 'advanced society' sees women as less than men..

    It's a hoot when religion cherry picks science to justify its insanity.

    this has nothing to do with religion. so if that's the only horse you got, take it out back and put it down.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    this has nothing to do with religion. so if that's the only horse you got, take it out back and put it down.
    Based on your posts, it most definitely does so get back on your high horse!

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Based on your posts, it most definitely does so get back on your high horse!

    based on what posts sv? better start quoting or else you look like a rambling old coot.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Sweet Mother of God reds are Stupid.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    based on what posts sv? better start quoting or else you look like a rambling old coot.
    At least I'm not a red and votes Republican no matter how bad he is. Just look for the "R" when you vote. You'd have voted for Moore if you could have.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    Sweet Mother of God reds are Stupid.
    Some are beyond stump John.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    At least I'm not a red and votes Republican no matter how bad he is. Just look for the "R" when you vote. You'd have voted for Moore if you could have.


    ole sv getting deeper and deeper into the realm of buffoonery. i'll give you this, you're better than jop and his lame hotkey paste job post he makes 99% of the time.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    I have long thought the GOP wanted overturning Roe v Wade as an election issue more than a reality. However, I fear they may have now crossed the line where they can't avoid doing it. This will win them primary votes, but will defeat them in the general election.

    Plus, it's time people realized that they have something to lose when they don't vote. So, I say bring it on!

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    'but will defeat them in the general...'

    sweet mother of gawd..

    "The problem with the progressives and liberals right now is that they are still treating this situation like we are in a state of normalcy."

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    'but will defeat them in the general...'

    sweet mother of gawd..

    "The problem with the progressives and liberals right now is that they are still treating this situation like we are in a state of normalcy."
    Do you think that successfully overturning Roe v Wade will help the GOP win elections? An awful lot of people are in favor of abortion rights in this country.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    people forget the flip side of Roe vs Wade. It not only gives the women the right to an abortion, but keeps the state from forcing one on them. Imagine a woman, incarcerated into a jail or in an mental institution for something minor, being forced to have an abortion? Don't think it could happen, it has before RvsW.
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    defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men.

    Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Oliver Wendell Holmes, often held up as the apotheosis of a Supreme Court Justice, signed off on the involuntary sterilization of a young woman

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Do you think that successfully overturning Roe v Wade will help the GOP win elections? An awful lot of people are in favor of abortion rights in this country.
    let me repeat..


    "The problem with the progressives and liberals right now is that they are still treating this situation like we are in a state of normalcy."

    the voting is done, hate won. don't bring an (especially outdated) ballot to a gun fight.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    let me repeat..


    "The problem with the progressives and liberals right now is that they are still treating this situation like we are in a state of normalcy."

    the voting is done, hate won. don't bring an (especially outdated) ballot to a gun fight.
    I've been telling these people for years, Bobby.

    Maybe you can get through to them.

    Take Pless, for example. The best he can do is 'liberals suck'.

    The more likely scenario will be 'liberals die'.


    I can't decide whether to add a smiley.

    I don't think I will.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post

    Take Pless, for example. The best he can do is 'liberals suck'.
    we're done

    do you want me to break out the guns? i'll turn fascists before i do that
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Democrats should forget about Roe v. Wade

    please do note the smiley
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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