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Thread: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

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    Default Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    "Dear America, appreciate your allies; after all, you don't have many"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44780489

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Trump has declared himself King of the World. He listens to no one except the voices in his deranged head.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Trump has declared himself King of the World. He listens to no one except the voices in his deranged head.
    You're forgetting Putin.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    It’s in the EU’s best interest to be ‘allies’. Doesn't mean we shouldn’t be good partners, but they aren’t going anywhere without the US.

    In some ways Tusk is playing Trumps game. Come in with big talk, let them bargain to a point that’s still acceptable, and everyone feels like they won.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    It was agreed in 2014 that those countries in NATO reach the 2% level, financially by 2021 0r 2024. Most are working on doing that. Why won't Trump allow them to without threatening them? Personally, I think he's getting his orders from Putin as Putin will be the overall winner here and is positively gloating. It's not costing him a thing!. Secondly, when asked of Trump if the Russians were friend of foe, he replied "Competitors" All about MONEY in other words. Trump, The USA is not one of your failed businesses, don't treat it like one.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    "Dear America, appreciate your allies; after all, you don't have many"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44780489

    While the quote "Dear America, appreciate your allies, after all you don't have that many." is embedded in the body of the article, did Mr Tusk actually say or write that?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Congrats, BrianW, it seems you voted for a traitor. Enjoy!

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    It’s in the EU’s best interest to be ‘allies’. Doesn't mean we shouldn’t be good partners, but they aren’t going anywhere without the US.

    In some ways Tusk is playing Trumps game. Come in with big talk, let them bargain to a point that’s still acceptable, and everyone feels like they won.
    Trump’s game is not win/win. You know that.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Trump’s game is not win/win. You know that.
    I do. The one thing I saw in Trump was that he is not a politician, but rather a business man. Not a good business man, but hey, I was sick of politicians. Trumps goals as a business man should be to get the best deal possible for his company.
    One tactic that’s makes that happen is if all sides feel like they won something. That’s not the same as win/win, it’s we won, and you think you won too.

    Tusk comes in heavy handed, backs down a bit, gets what he really wanted, and Trump thinks he won.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    I'm puzzled. Among the things we KNEW of Trump is he had settled lawsuits. His casinos went bankrupt: he did okay, but a lot of people got hurt very badly. I guess he PLAYED a successful business man on his show

    Meanwhile, what we knew of Hillary was she had been accused of lots of stuff by GOP. GOP ran investigations into all those things they accused her of, and they always ended up clearing her, yet so many people act as if she was guilty of all that stuff.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    And a terrible businessman at that. Six bankruptcies involving HIS companies to start, Trump University, a whole bunch of questionable deals, not paying contractors, raiding the Trump Foundation to buy things for himself or paying penalties. Yup, a great, very sleazy businessman man isn't he Brian?

    Here's a question, why is Trump meeting with Putin behind closed doors with no advisors attending? What's he going to give up? I mean, this is as bad as the Summit in Singapore. That just came off swimmingly didn't it?

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    I do. The one thing I saw in Trump was that he is not a politician, but rather a business man. Not a good business man, but hey, I was sick of politicians. Trumps goals as a business man should be to get the best deal possible for his company.
    One tactic that’s makes that happen is if all sides feel like they won something. That’s not the same as win/win, it’s we won, and you think you won too.

    Tusk comes in heavy handed, backs down a bit, gets what he really wanted, and Trump thinks he won.
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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    While the quote "Dear America, appreciate your allies, after all you don't have that many." is embedded in the body of the article, did Mr Tusk actually say or write that?
    Yes he did. Just on the 1 minute mark in the video here..

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f427d690b582
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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    The US spends 3.5% of its GDP, but only 15% of that is related to NATO. Is that about 0.5% of its GDP.....

    Collectively the EU has a very cooperative approach to defense. I imagine, the Europeans spend significantly more on defending NATO than the US (someone has to contribute the other 80%) - and I'd question the idea that the US is benefiting less from the arrangement.

    Unless of course you don't see Putin as a strategic threat, in which case; where's the benefit to the USA? Of course.
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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    I do believe that Herr Drumpf is at the behest of the US MIC, inasmuch that he threatens the EU with sanctions so that thay are corrcvedto buy US sourced products; whereas the EU has a separate productive capacity to deal seal with issues. Discuss.
    Xanthorrea

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    I do believe that Herr Drumpf is at the behest of the US MIC, inasmuch that he threatens the EU with sanctions so that thay are corrcvedto buy US sourced products; whereas the EU has a separate productive capacity to deal seal with issues. Discuss.
    I would discuss if it was written in understandable English.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Well I got it, just a couple of typos.

    The gist is that the MIC calls the shots and Donald does their bidding to ensure that Europe continues to buy their products. That only makes sense as long as the US is well involved in NATO. Otherwise supply chain matters might indicate that european production would be more sensible. From a tactical point of view I agree. (that more or less it purri?)
    Aus, for largely ideological reasons has abandoned a decent slice of it's heavy industrial manufacturing capacities.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Well I got it, just a couple of typos.

    The gist is that the MIC calls the shots and Donald does their bidding to ensure that Europe continues to buy their products. That only makes sense as long as the US is well involved in NATO. Otherwise supply chain matters might indicate that european production would be more sensible. From a tactical point of view I agree. (that more or less it purri?)
    Aus, for largely ideological reasons has abandoned a decent slice of it's heavy industrial manufacturing capacities.
    There is a clause in the EU "constitution" that allows member states to buy domestic defence products, rather than put it out for competition so as to protect their national defence supply bases.

    We now have an aircraft carrier with no aircraft because a US supplier could not deliver on time. We would be very wary of buying from the US defence industry if we were wise.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    You, and we, may never get the F35's under Donald. How does the French Rafele shape up?

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    You, and we, may never get the F35's under Donald. How does the French Rafele shape up?
    The contract was for the STOVL version. The carriers are fitted for but not with catapults.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Eggs and baskets come to mind…………….

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Trump claims Germany is a captive of Russia due to energy imports, and does not seem to understand why Europe(except Poland) does not want to pay 3 times as much for US LNG. Its no wonder he has gone bankrupt if he cant figure that one.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    P1154 anyone?
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Oh he's got it figured alright, playing to the home market. I expect him to withdraw the US from NATO, giving Vlad what he wants. All this is just lead up to sell it at home..

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I'm puzzled. Among the things we KNEW of Trump is he had settled lawsuits. His casinos went bankrupt: he did okay, but a lot of people got hurt very badly. I guess he PLAYED a successful business man on his show

    Meanwhile, what we knew of Hillary was she had been accused of lots of stuff by GOP. GOP ran investigations into all those things they accused her of, and they always ended up clearing her, yet so many people act as if she was guilty of all that stuff.
    and therein lies the mystery for me. A TV show business man versus an obviously competent woman. Perhaps her lack of a penis was the deciding factor.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    and therein lies the mystery for me. A TV show business man versus an obviously competent woman. Perhaps her lack of a penis was the deciding factor.
    Not wishing to stray from the subject matter, but when she was reffered to being "gross negligence" in matters of security, i do not see how "competent" can be spoken about the same person. What she has is competent people around her to cover her butt.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Meanwhile, Trump caricatured "the ugly American" as soon as he stepped off the plane for the NATO meeting. Almost like his objective is to fray the alliance, just when it is more relevant than it has,been in a decade or more.

    Foreign agent.
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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Oh he's got it figured alright, playing to the home market. I expect him to withdraw the US from NATO, giving Vlad what he wants. All this is just lead up to sell it at home..
    And just what does Vlad want?

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Vlad wants NATO disabled.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Meanwhile, Trump caricatured "the ugly American" as soon as he stepped off the plane for the NATO meeting. Almost like his objective is to fray the alliance, just when it is more relevant than it has,been in a decade or more.

    Foreign agent.
    And failure to register as such.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    And just what does Vlad want?
    The "Western powers" completely disorganised and emasculated so that he can take back all of the old Soviet States that got away and then some.

    I do agree with this theory
    Seven steps in the life cycles of great powers

    Glubb Pasha learned that different empires had similar cultural changes while experiencing a life cycle in a series of stages that could overlap. He generalized about empires having seven stages of development, identifying these successive ages as follows:
    1. The age of outburst (or pioneers).
    2. The age of conquests.
    3. The age of commerce.
    4. The age of affluence.
    5. The age of intellect.
    6. The age of decadence.
    7. The age of decline and collapse.

    Each stage helps progression to the next as the values of the people change over time. Military, political, economic and religious developments all influence an empire’s people to act and believe differently over time.
    The USA came to late to have much of an empire, it was all taken, so all they got was Puerto Rico and the Philippines.
    Post Tsarist Russia missed the boat entirely, but I would not put it past Putin to want to rebuild some sort of Empire out of the remains of the USSR.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Trump has declared himself King of the World. He listens to no one except the voices in his deranged head.
    .....and Hannity

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    The "Western powers" completely disorganised and emasculated so that he can take back all of the old Soviet States that got away and then some.

    I do agree with this theory

    The USA came to late to have much of an empire, it was all taken, so all they got was Puerto Rico and the Philippines.
    Post Tsarist Russia missed the boat entirely, but I would not put it past Putin to want to rebuild some sort of Empire out of the remains of the USSR.
    Entitled to your opinion of course, though i do not agree with it. He still needs to lift the standard of living for everyone inside the Russian Federation before thinking about expansion, as he wont have the support he currently has. Why take on a load of indebted countries that do not even have resources? Europe has peaked as much as the US when it comes to living standards in the most part, Trump is complaining about tarifs and lost US jobs, but all that was due to the US own corporation greed and excess profits they made from moving production overseas to places like China, and did not even pass on the cost saving to the American people, who is the sucker? I do not see any Russian expansion in my lifetime, outside of US provoked regime change and the effects thereof. Again, US does things without looking ahead, or just blind to obvious reactions, and then complains about it. US foreign policy was never a strong point.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    The USA came to late to have much of an empire, it was all taken, so all they got was Puerto Rico and the Philippines.
    Uhhh . . .

    We also got more than half of Mexico, the 827,000 square miles that was Louisiana, plus Alaska and Hawaii.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Trump told to behave by EU ahead of NATO talks

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Entitled to your opinion of course, though i do not agree with it. He still needs to lift the standard of living for everyone inside the Russian Federation before thinking about expansion, as he wont have the support he currently has. Why take on a load of indebted countries that do not even have resources? Europe has peaked as much as the US when it comes to living standards in the most part, Trump is complaining about tarifs and lost US jobs, but all that was due to the US own corporation greed and excess profits they made from moving production overseas to places like China, and did not even pass on the cost saving to the American people, who is the sucker? I do not see any Russian expansion in my lifetime, outside of US provoked regime change and the effects thereof. Again, US does things without looking ahead, or just blind to obvious reactions, and then complains about it. US foreign policy was never a strong point.
    That is not strictly true. Just a few checked at random..

    Armenia
    a major producer of molybdenum. The Zangezur
    copper-molybdenum complex possesses large molybdenum
    reserves that are concentrated in the Kadzharan deposit.

    Azerbaijan
    The country has been a significant oil producer for
    more than a century, but recent focus has been on developing
    offshore resources in the Caspian Sea. Production from
    the country’s Soviet-era fields are in decline, but since
    independence, foreign direct investment in offshore fields had
    revitalized the country’s oil sector through the development of
    large-scale new projects and the refurbishment of older projects.

    Georgia
    main role in the world mineral supply was to serve
    as a transport route for oil and gas shipments out of the Caspian
    region to world markets. Three of the new large oil and gas
    export pipelines that had been or were being constructed in the
    Caspian region pass through Georgia.

    Kazakhstan
    ranks second only to Russia among the
    countries of the CIS in its quantity of mineral production.

    Turkmenistan
    has major oil and gas reserves; the country is a leading regional natural gas producer.
    Turkmenistan has several of the world’s largest gas fields

    Uzbekistan
    a major world producer of two mineral commodities, gold and uranium.


    https://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/p...i-tx-up-uz.pdf
    It’s really hard to define ‘virtue signalling’, as I was saying the other day to some of my Muslim friends over a fair-trade coffee in our local feminist bookshop. (Lucy Porter 2018)

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