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Thread: Religion vs science

  1. #1
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    Default Religion vs science

    I wonder:

    Do those who think their religion trumps science call 911 in an emergency and ask the ambulance to take them to the church?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I wonder:

    Do those who think their religion trumps science call 911 in an emergency and ask the ambulance to take them to the church?
    No they don't call 911, they just pray.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Some actually do. I think Jehovah's witnesses refuse blood transfusions.
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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    i wonder, are there people that truly believe religion and science are mutually exclusive?

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i wonder, are there people that truly believe religion and science are mutually exclusive?
    Yep.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i wonder, are there people that truly believe religion and science are mutually exclusive?
    You need to define your question more rigorously. Do you mean the Amish, who reject modern technology that when all is said and done is science based?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Do you mean the Amish, who reject modern technology that when all is said and done is science based?
    I think this may be a misunderstanding about the Amish. They're very deliberate about what kind of technology they'll use, but they don't reject new stuff entirely. Seeing a couple of Amish girls heading down the road on rollerblades in traditional dresses gives one a somewhat different perspective. And they're sometimes very inventive about pushing the edges of what's OK, particularly in their manufacturing businesses (lots of woodworking on a surprisingly large scale)

    But that's a diversion from the topic.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I think this may be a misunderstanding about the Amish. They're very deliberate about what kind of technology they'll use, but they don't reject new stuff entirely. Seeing a couple of Amish girls heading down the road on rollerblades in traditional dresses gives one a somewhat different perspective. And they're sometimes very inventive about pushing the edges of what's OK, particularly in their manufacturing businesses (lots of woodworking on a surprisingly large scale)

    But that's a diversion from the topic.

    yeah. i've toured an amish wood wire spool factory in ohio. they have plenty of machines and electricity running. it's a funny game they play with what they'll use. they'll use all kinds of electricity if it's coming from some old tractor in the back turning a belt that runs a generator.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I think this may be a misunderstanding about the Amish. They're very deliberate about what kind of technology they'll use, but they don't reject new stuff entirely. Seeing a couple of Amish girls heading down the road on rollerblades in traditional dresses gives one a somewhat different perspective. And they're sometimes very inventive about pushing the edges of what's OK, particularly in their manufacturing businesses (lots of woodworking on a surprisingly large scale)

    But that's a diversion from the topic.
    With cell phones no less.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i wonder, are there people that truly believe religion and science are mutually exclusive?
    I'm amazed that there are so many who don't. Shows you the power of brainwashing at a very early age.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    I'm amazed that there are so many who don't. Shows you the power of brainwashing at a very early age.
    And this, with all respect, is as much a misunderstanding as Frank's young-earth creationism. 'Religion' covers about as wide a range as 'human behavior'. Some kinds of religion are incompatible with science. Some are not.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i wonder, are there people that truly believe religion and science are mutually exclusive?
    Wonder no more.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i wonder, are there people that truly believe religion and science are mutually exclusive?
    Aren't they?

    I go further. A truly religion person has to put GOD first. That person cannot put GOD first and make decisions based upon our constitution if he sees a conflict. He's already born false witness when he claims he'll uphold the constitution, as he cannot serve two masters.

    That said, there are degrees of religious beliefs. I've known many a 'once a week church goer' who were not the least bit religious the rest of the week.

    Science and religion have often been at odds with each other. Far as I can see, time proves the science correct; the earth is not the center of the universe, and it is not flat.

    I've heard people say, "If god wanted men to fly, he'd have given us wings". I expect that same person would forgo driving because if God wanted us to travel at 60 miles an hour he'd have made us run faster.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Or given us wheels.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Science and religion have often been at odds with each other. Far as I can see, time proves the science correct; the earth is not the center of the universe, and it is not flat.
    And it almost always has been when one or the other is trying to do something it has no business doing - more often religion, historically, but that's mainly because science is a relatively new development. If religion tries to tell you about what exists in the physical world and how it works, run the other way. Likewise if someone says that we can figure out what is ethically right by the methods of science.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    And it almost always has been when one or the other is trying to do something it has no business doing - more often religion, historically, but that's mainly because science is a relatively new development. If religion tries to tell you about what exists in the physical world and how it works, run the other way. Likewise if someone says that we can figure out what is ethically right by the methods of science.
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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post

    With 4,219 replies, we must have reached a consensus by now.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    And Frank ain't even broke a sweat yet.
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i wonder, are there people that truly believe religion and science are mutually exclusive?
    Cognitive dissonance works in wondrous ways, its miracles to perform.
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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I wonder:

    Do those who think their religion trumps science call 911 in an emergency and ask the ambulance to take them to the church?
    Let's see. When I needed my appendix removed, I prayed for a good outcome and lay down on the table for the surgeon. When I see poverty, I pray that God will move the hearts of men who can help and then I try to do something to help. When I find myself frustrated by the stupidity of others, I pray for patience.

    Then I return to my computers where I am presently analyzing magnetic field data returned from several spacecraft (ACE, Voyager and Ulysses at present) and work to better understand the physics of interplanetary space. I don't go to a church to do that.

    You see, many of us are skilled in science and still believe in God.

    Tell me, John, are you as smart as I thought you were, or is this a very poor attempt at humor? Maybe this is a good time for me to pray for patience.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Let's see. When I needed my appendix removed, I prayed for a good outcome and lay down on the table for the surgeon. When I see poverty, I pray that God will move the hearts of men who can help and then I try to do something to help. When I find myself frustrated by the stupidity of others, I pray for patience.

    Then I return to my computers where I am presently analyzing magnetic field data returned from several spacecraft (ACE, Voyager and Ulysses at present) and work to better understand the physics of interplanetary space. I don't go to a church to do that.

    You see, many of us are skilled in science and still believe in God.

    Tell me, John, are you as smart as I thought you were, or is this a very poor attempt at humor? Maybe this is a good time for me to pray for patience.
    Well spoken.
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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    The world is not black or white:religious or scientific
    Elect a clown expect a circus

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    And it almost always has been when one or the other is trying to do something it has no business doing - more often religion, historically, but that's mainly because science is a relatively new development. If religion tries to tell you about what exists in the physical world and how it works, run the other way. Likewise if someone says that we can figure out what is ethically right by the methods of science.
    Why do we need religious to explain ethics? I know many religious people who are not ethical, and many non religious people who are ethical.

    A connection between religion and ethics, or religion and morals, is, IMO, mythical
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Let's see. When I needed my appendix removed, I prayed for a good outcome and lay down on the table for the surgeon. When I see poverty, I pray that God will move the hearts of men who can help and then I try to do something to help. When I find myself frustrated by the stupidity of others, I pray for patience.

    Then I return to my computers where I am presently analyzing magnetic field data returned from several spacecraft (ACE, Voyager and Ulysses at present) and work to better understand the physics of interplanetary space. I don't go to a church to do that.

    You see, many of us are skilled in science and still believe in God.

    Tell me, John, are you as smart as I thought you were, or is this a very poor attempt at humor? Maybe this is a good time for me to pray for patience.
    Believing prayers are answered is an interesting trait. I'm sure you thank God if your surgery goes well, but doubt you blame Him if it does not.

    If you are out on your boat, and notice it is sinking, do you pray or turn on the bilge pump? You might do both, but if you could only do one or the other, which one is more likely to save your boat?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Why do we need religious to explain ethics? I know many religious people who are not ethical, and many non religious people who are ethical.

    A connection between religion and ethics, or religion and morals, is, IMO, mythical
    I think that religions were invented as a method of encoding, teaching and enforcing ethics/morality. That and helping sentient beings deal with the death of a loved one.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Believing prayers are answered is an interesting trait. I'm sure you thank God if your surgery goes well, but doubt you blame Him if it does not.

    If you are out on your boat, and notice it is sinking, do you pray or turn on the bilge pump? You might do both, but if you could only do one or the other, which one is more likely to save your boat?
    It seems to me that you failed to understand my last post. Repeating it is unlikely to produce a different outcome (that's my science training). Be well, John. I'll try to ignore your nonsense in the future.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    And Frank ain't even broke a sweat yet.
    But the thread starter aquinian left the game early
    Don't worry I'm happy

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    Justice is sometimes harder to achieve."

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i wonder, are there people that truly believe religion and science are mutually exclusive?
    Yes. I'm one, although I would say "can be" rather than "are".
    Last edited by Flying Orca; 07-10-2018 at 12:58 PM.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by beernd View Post
    But the thread starter aquinian left the game early
    Wonder if Frank and aquinian aren't one and the same??...
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Taught science at a choir school for three years; no problems

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Why do we need religious to explain ethics? I know many religious people who are not ethical, and many non religious people who are ethical.
    You don't, but that's one major thing religions do. You can have systems of ethics, and act ethically without religion, of course. But saying the connection is 'mythical' is silly; pretty much every religion that's ever existed has had as a central teaching a description of the right way to behave.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    Wonder if Frank and aquinian aren't one and the same??...
    Nah. Different styles, very different theology. Aquinian's a Catholic, Frank's a fundamentalist Protestant of some kind. No fundamentalist Protestant would ever call himself 'Aquinian'.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    It seems to me that you failed to understand my last post. Repeating it is unlikely to produce a different outcome (that's my science training). Be well, John. I'll try to ignore your nonsense in the future.
    Once again.... well spoken!! John does love to poke religion with a stick to see what happens.
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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    It seems to me that you failed to understand my last post. Repeating it is unlikely to produce a different outcome (that's my science training). Be well, John. I'll try to ignore your nonsense in the future.
    I think I understood it. Not sure you understood my response. I think 'pray' could be replaced with 'hope', no?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    You don't, but that's one major thing religions do. You can have systems of ethics, and act ethically without religion, of course. But saying the connection is 'mythical' is silly; pretty much every religion that's ever existed has had as a central teaching a description of the right way to behave.


    Nah. Different styles, very different theology. Aquinian's a Catholic, Frank's a fundamentalist Protestant of some kind. No fundamentalist Protestant would ever call himself 'Aquinian'.
    If there was a serious connection, I would think all church goers would be ethical. I cannot help but remember Judge Mathis laughing when the plaintiff or the defendant begins with, "I'm a Christian...." or "I'm a pastor, minister, etc." as the judge knows that person is about to lie to him.

    I think people who consider themselves religious believe there's a connection, but I'd be disinclined to think you could prove it.

    The denial of science seems to be something done by religious folks. Am I wrong there?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Religion vs science

    Amish or Mennonite?
    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    yeah. i've toured an amish wood wire spool factory in ohio. they have plenty of machines and electricity running. it's a funny game they play with what they'll use. they'll use all kinds of electricity if it's coming from some old tractor in the back turning a belt that runs a generator.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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