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Thread: Why run?

  1. #1
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    Question Why run?

    Young man died here on his birthday yesterday.
    Was on a motorcycle. Police apparently asked him to stop.
    NB Police are black and the deceased is black.
    He allegedly throw something away (which apparently has not yet been found) and raced away.
    A chase ensued for about 1 1/2 miles.
    He came off his motorcycle in town.
    Police say he lost control. Some people say police vehicle hit him.
    Regardless he subsequently unfortunately died.
    Many are divided.
    Some criticizing police, even to extent that police should not pursue somebody riding a motorcycle [If that is to be then every crook will ride a motorcycle].
    Others that he should have stopped when required to do so and he would still be alive.

    I tend to side with the 'he should have stopped' view.

    One news report:
    St.Kitts and Nevis (WINN): A young man lost his life Saturday afternoon in a motorcycle accident in Basseterre, reportedly trying to evade police.

    The accident occurred around 4:15.
    An SSU Unit on patrol reportedly saw Tau Johnson of Buckley's Housing on the motorcycle in the vicinity of AVEC and thought he looked suspicious.
    They got out of their vehicle and indicated for him to stop.
    When he didn't, a chase ensued through Basseterre.

    Reports indicate that Johnson ran the red light at Bakers Corner and as he manouvered through vehicles on Wellington Road he lost control of the motorcycle and fell.
    The young man was whisked to the JNF hospital but succumbed to his injuries.
    Police say they are investigating the fatal accident.
    While rumor quickly spread that the police vehicle had been involved in the accident, a police source indicated that at no point did the police vehicle come into contact with the motorcycle.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Absolutely police should not pursue unless a violent crime or threat of violent crime has been committed.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Absolutely police should not pursue unless a violent crime or threat of violent crime has been committed.
    So if Police stop or try and stop somebody from driving without a rear light or working brake lights (at night or even during the day) and they instead race away the police should just let them go?


    How could you feel if you child was killed having run into them (or taking evasive action to avoid hitting them) due to non-working lights and you learnt that the police had tried to stop them buy were not allowed to apprehend them?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Why run?

    There's a lot more risk to bystanders and other drivers when you the police in active pursuit. I agree completely with Paul.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Police chases are stupid. So many unnecsary deaths for no good purpose. Testosterone unleashed.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    So if Police stop or try and stop somebody from driving without a rear light or working brake lights (at night or even during the day) and they instead race away the police should just let them go?


    How could you feel if you child was killed having run into them (or taking evasive action to avoid hitting them) due to non-working lights and you learnt that the police had tried to stop them buy were not allowed to apprehend them?
    ah, the old busted taillight routine
    eff the police
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    ah, the old busted taillight routine
    eff the police
    How could you feel if you child was killed having run into them (or taking evasive action to avoid hitting them) due to non-working lights and you learnt that the police had tried to stop them but were not allowed to apprehend them?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why run?

    The people being chased are often impaired (drugs or alcohol) and lousy drivers. They pile up into other vehicles or run off the road.

    I mediated a case recently where the RCMP was chasing a suicidal man. He crossed the center line and hit an SUV with four people in it, killing one and injuring the others
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    How could you feel if you child was killed having run into them (or taking evasive action to avoid hitting them) due to non-working lights and you learnt that the police had tried to stop them but were not allowed to apprehend them?
    Exactly the same way if the police pursuit was the reason the child were killed... It would be no less a tragedy for the parents.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  10. #10
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    Default Re: Why run?

    So the perps of robbery of any place, if not violent, should always be allowed to escape if they leave on a motorbike?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Why run?

    More practically perhaps lots more CCTV cameras and the 'book thrown at them' with sentences maximized for not stopping when requested to do so ?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    So the perps of robbery of any place, if not violent, should always be allowed to escape if they leave on a motorbike?
    The judgment to pursue should be tempered by the possibility of collateral damage. Often, the perpetrators will be identified and arrested under far safer circumstances.

    'Rambo' is fictional escapism, not cold hard reality.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  13. #13
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Two other things that prompted this thread.

    1. There are several idiots/organ donors that ride motorcycles but repeatedly ride them doing 'wheelies' on main roads, weaving in and out of traffic, even making oncoming traffic take evasive action.
    I will not shed a single tear when one or more are killed, hopefully nobody else will be injured or killed when that happens.

    2. There is 'stop and search' by Police and a number of firearms and drugs (incl marijuana and cocaine) have been seized and arrests made.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    I will not shed a single tear when one or more are killed
    we never doubted you bro

    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself.
    Each is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less.
    As well as if a promontory were.
    As well as if a manor of thine own
    Or of thine friend's were.
    Each man's death diminishes me,
    For I am involved in mankind.
    Therefore, send not to know
    For whom the bell tolls,
    It tolls for thee.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Young men's brains are not mature enough to assess risk till 25+ and of course humans never think they'll be the ones to die. Armies and 'adventurous' governments rely on that.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    we never doubted you bro

    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself.
    Each is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less.
    As well as if a promontory were.
    As well as if a manor of thine own
    Or of thine friend's were.
    Each man's death diminishes me,
    For I am involved in mankind.
    Therefore, send not to know
    For whom the bell tolls,
    It tolls for thee.
    I guess we're Donne with this thread.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Why run?

    it were just another red self righteous troll anyways. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Why run?

    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself.
    Each is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less.
    As well as if a promontory were.
    As well as if a manor of thine own
    Or of thine friend's were.
    Each man's death diminishes me,
    For I am involved in mankind.
    Therefore, send not to know
    For whom the bell tolls,
    It tolls for thee.
    I find this quote poignant.

    As Lord Chancellor, Sir Thomas More arrested anyone promoting, selling or even possessing books of the Protestant Reformation. He also freely admitted to caning children and others.

    Eff the police, indeed.

    More was also wont to wear a hair shirt and practice flagellation. A man of great words, and with great courage of conviction; but also one who's actions would seem to gut the very spirit of those words and that courage.

    Not a guy you'd see me quoting any time soon.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    I find this quote poignant.

    As Lord Chancellor, Sir Thomas More arrested anyone promoting, selling or even possessing books of the Protestant Reformation. He also freely admitted to caning children and others.

    Eff the police, indeed.

    More was also wont to wear a hair shirt and practice flagellation. A man of great words, and with great courage of conviction; but also one who's actions would seem to gut the very spirit of those words and that courage.

    Not a guy you'd see me quoting any time soon.

    Kevin
    It's not a quotation from Thomas More. It's a poem by John Donne

    No man is an Iland, intire of itselfe; every man
    is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine;
    if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe
    is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as
    well as if a Manor of thy friends or of thine
    owne were; any mans death diminishes me,
    because I am involved in Mankinde;
    And therefore never send to know for whom
    the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

    MEDITATION XVII
    Devotions upon Emergent Occasions
    John Donne
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  20. #20

    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Two other things that prompted this thread.

    1. There are several idiots/organ donors that ride motorcycles but repeatedly ride them doing 'wheelies' on main roads, weaving in and out of traffic, even making oncoming traffic take evasive action.
    I will not shed a single tear when one or more are killed, hopefully nobody else will be injured or killed when that happens.

    2. There is 'stop and search' by Police and a number of firearms and drugs (incl marijuana and cocaine) have been seized and arrests made.
    In this particular case, you live in a really tiny country 60k? I find it hard to believe someone couldn't have recognized this fellow, I mean dude it not like you live in LA. Presumably you don't want him dead before he goes to court. The idea behind no Duke's of Hazzard pursuit is safety for both the criminal and civilian.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    So if Police stop or try and stop somebody from driving without a rear light or working brake lights (at night or even during the day) and they instead race away the police should just let them go?


    How could you feel if you child was killed having run into them (or taking evasive action to avoid hitting them) due to non-working lights and you learnt that the police had tried to stop them buy were not allowed to apprehend them?
    How about writing down the license number and contacting the driver at home?
    Michigan seems like a dream to me now.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Why run?

    It's easy enough to get the license plate # and catch the guy later if it's important.

    If it is not important why risk a life by chasing?

    It's not just the person running making a bad decision, its a cascade of bad decisions leading to a fatality.
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    So the perps of robbery of any place, if not violent, should always be allowed to escape if they leave on a motorbike?
    Escape?

    Are your police just brain-dead Morons?

    You live on an ISLAND fer gawdsakes!

    Where is this rotter gonna DRIVE to?

    How many pics of his license plate do those Morons NEED?

    It's SIMPLE.

    The cops get OFF on chasing someone, EVEN IF THE GUY IS EASILY APPREHENDED!!

    Let him go and feel he's 'safe', then bust him wide open.
    Rattling the teacups.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    How about writing down the license number and contacting the driver at home?
    LOL
    First. Police will not provide and and address of an owner
    Second. Miscreants have violent idiots as friends.
    Third. The list goes on


    However, today I got Police to say (on a radio talk show) that they would use recorder information from a dash cam in the prosecution of offenders.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hunter View Post
    It's easy enough to get the license plate # and catch the guy later if it's important.
    You
    If it is not important why risk a life by chasing?.
    The Police have to get close enough to see and record the number
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Why run?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Escape?

    Are your police just brain-dead Morons? I decline to answer that on the grounds that it would definitely incriminate me.

    You live on an ISLAND fer gawdsakes! True we do.

    Where is this rotter gonna DRIVE to? Many vehicles have false number plates , especially the ‘wrong doers’.

    How many pics of his license plate do those Morons NEED? If the number plate is false no amount of pics will do

    It's SIMPLE. Yeah right!

    The cops get OFF on chasing someone, EVEN IF THE GUY IS EASILY APPREHENDED!!

    Let him go and feel he's 'safe', then bust him wide open.
    BTW I had a female (US national) student renting an apartment (not mine). Left it in an atrocious state more than deposit. US uni here would not give me her address to deal with her scooter (JoeSoCal where are you) that she left (abandoned). Finally I reported it to police asking them to contact owner ( remember they don’t give out name and address) but were helpful enough to say that the number belongs to a pick-up.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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