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Thread: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

  1. #1
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    Default Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    So has anyone ever devised a S&G interpretation of Day & Mower's Seabird?

    As for my boating, I raced centerboarders and small offshore boats on w. Lake Erie & inland from junior sailing thru college, and briefly worked at 2 fiberglass centerboard-boat shops mid 1970's. My only involvement with wooden boats has been family ownership of Highlander 235 in the 60's, my current wood El Toro dinghy bought well used, and stumbling across the Spray replica Igdrasil in Anacortes WA in the early 2000's when it had become temporarily lost to the enthusiast community.

    I don't expect to build a boat as large as Seabird but you never can be quite sure with the lottery. Meanwhile I'm mystifying myself with a download of Delftship.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    Bolger designed "Seabird 86" - "modern" ply interpretation of Seabird.Moehttp://www.oocities.org/nohnpages/original.html

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    I cannot imagine why one would build anything other than a bona fide Seabird,if you want a Seabird.
    It ain't really that great of a boat.
    Don't let the romance of an adventure story have too big an influence in today's world.imho.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    That Seabird 86 doesn't look remotely like the original Seabird.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    Core Sound 20 MkIII. You can even get a kit!

    Peace,
    Robert

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    L.Francis Herreshoff made an astute comparison between the Seabird Yawl and his H28 ketch. This can be found on pp. 41 in his book,
    Sensible Cruising Designs.
    Sea Bird-------------------------H-28
    L.O.A. 25' 9"---------------------- 28'
    L.W.L. 20'--------------------------23' 1 1/2"
    Beam 8'-----------------------------8' 9"
    Draft 2'------------------------------3' 6"
    Sail Area. 340 sq.-------------------ft. 343 sq. ft.
    Headroom 4'.------------------------4' 8"
    Length of cabin 8'9"---------------10'
    Cockpit Area. 18 sq. ft.------------36 sq. ft.
    Frame Spacing 12"----------------12"
    Size of frames 1 1/4" x 1 1/2"-----1 5/8"x 1 5/8"
    Deck beams 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" -------1 3/8"x 2"
    House beams 1" x 1 1/2"-----------3/4" x 1 1/2"
    Planking. 1" -------------------------1"
    Deck. 7/8"----------------------------3/4"
    House deck 1/2"----------------------5/8"


    L. Francis makes compartive comments concerning the designs and gives credit to C.D. Mower for his excellent drawings stating that they are
    better than his own. He also states that the greatest difference between the two boats is in the greater aspect ratio of the sails of the H28
    and the greater displacement and cabin room of the H28.

    Being the owner of one of L.F. Herreshoffs H28 ketches might cause some of you to argue that I am prejudiced in favor of my own boat. But I can honestly say that this is not true other than that i am well aware of the Sea Bird yawl design and have spent quite a little time aboard one that belonged to a friend who sailed it to Hawaii back in the early sixties. It was a slow and cramped trip!
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 07-09-2018 at 11:05 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    The Seabird Yawl was a fine small cruising boat of 100 odd years ago, easy to build and reasonable to sail. It is still not a bad boat. There are so many options these days, that revisiting this design, seems doubtful at best. If I were building something of this sort I'd probably build it pretty much as per the original design.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    There is an updated version with plans from our hosts.

    https://www.woodenboatstore.com/prod..._Sea_Bird_Yawl



    Plywood oversawn frames. No reason you could not "bog" the chine, but i expect it would cost more in resin,tape and filler than a few bits of laminated timber.
    I have a framed picture of a Seabird yawl on my wall, not to say i would want one though.....

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    I would rather see a 3/4 jib stay than using the head stay for setting a 100% working jib. Mucho hull strain from that rig!
    Jay

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    I would rather see a 3/4 jib stay than using the head stay for setting a 100% working jib. Mucho hull strain from that rig!
    Jay
    There is 9 stays holding that mast up (assuming twin backstay). Surely the load is well spread? Given my nordic Folkboat had only 3 stays and an adjustable backstay , where is load you are concerned with being placed?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    I am speaking of the load on the hull! I hope that the strain of the taller rig has been calculated into the scantlings of the hull. Other wise, the result can be of the boat oil caning or turning into a banana! Some people fail to recognise the tremendous strain a masthead rig places on a hull when sailing up wind in heavier force winds. The strain from attempting to keep the headstay sag out is much much greater than that of a fractional rig! There is an incredible amount of thrust on the bowsprit and bobstay fittings that can result from flying an up wind jib sail on the headstay. This can result in other things, more than mentioned above, such as forcing the hood ends of the planking that abut the stem rabet outward and rupturing the planks at that point!

    I do believe that I see a jib stay that is on a release set up on on the fwd. side of the mast just above the running back upper attachment and leading down to the base of the mast. If that is so, the self tending working jib would be better if set upon it as it does not need as much back stay force to take the sag out of the luff as the leverage of the standing backstay offers better support to the jib stay thus requiring less tension on the stays. This leaves the head stay free for reaching kites or other light air laundry. Some prime examples to this phenominum can be found in the Transpac boats of the past such as 'Rag Time". and Roy Disney's famous record breaking boats.
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 07-11-2018 at 04:06 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    I am speaking of the load on the hull! I hope that the strain of the taller rig has been calculated into the scantlings of the hull. Other wise, the result can be of the boat oil caning or turning into a banana! Some people fail to recognise the tremendous strain a masthead rig places on a hull when sailing up wind in heavier force winds. The strain from attempting to keep the headstay sag out is much much greater than that of a fractional rig! There is an incredible amount of thrust on the bowsprit and bobstay fittings that can result from flying an up wind jib sail on the headstay. This can result in other things, more than mentioned above, such as forcing the hood ends of the planking that abut the stem rabet outward and rupturing the planks at that point!

    I do believe that I see a jib stay that is on a release set up on on the fwd. side of the mast just above the running back upper attachment and leading down to the base of the mast. If that is so, the self tending working jib would be better if set upon it as it does not need as much back stay force to take the sag out of the luff as the leverage of the standing backstay offers better support to the jib stay thus requiring less tension on the stays. This leaves the head stay free for reaching kites or other light air laundry. Some prime examples to this phenominum can be found in the Transpac boats of the past such as 'Rag Time". and Roy Disney's famous record breaking boats.
    Jay

    for some reason fore stays to a bow sprit make me nervous... if we lose the sprit does the whole rig come down as well?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    for some reason fore stays to a bow sprit make me nervous... if we lose the sprit does the whole rig come down as well?
    ..on that rig yup. no forward lowers.
    forward lowers will bang into the jib boom .

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    I imagine the cost saving going over to a single balanced lug or even junk rig would be quite significant. Shame to lose the mizzen staysail though.......
    The original gaff version, at least in my print on the wall has the same single forestay on the bowsprit, and a single swept aft shroud each side. I do not think its that unusual, but the chance of failure is why i prefer an all inboard rig.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    for some reason fore stays to a bow sprit make me nervous... if we lose the sprit does the whole rig come down as well?
    Daniel Couta Boats carry a big load on the bowsprit, mitigated by a bobstay under some tension.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Daniel Couta Boats carry a big load on the bowsprit, mitigated by a bobstay under some tension.
    Dat's fugly..

    I have always thought the Seabird a bit 'Cod's head' and best left to it's era. Unless one is a dyed in the calico trad person..

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Seabird Yawl ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    for some reason fore stays to a bow sprit make me nervous... if we lose the sprit does the whole rig come down as well?
    Yes, you are right Dan! Losing a bow sprit can ruin your entire day. I have been aboard boats for that kind of stuff on three occasions as the result of collisions with boats that did not follow the rules of the road. Fortunately we did not loose the masts on any of the boats. On some boats the jib stay mounts at the stem head. In the case of the Sea Bird it shortens the base of the fore triangle too much making it better to have it mounted on the sprit with a fitting that has two points of attachment both for the jib and head stay as well.
    Some boats have a "baby stay that" mounts inboard. Of course this often fouls the jib sheets when tacking. I should think a simple 3/4 club footed jib is a better solution. That big main will give plenty of up wind drive in conjunction with the jib. A jib top can be flown from the head stay when needed and allows easy shortening of sail by just dropping it when the wind picks up. Another configuration is to use a set of jumper stays on the main mast to allow backstay leverage to be applied to the jib stay and keeping the mast aligned correctly. This would also allow an asymmetrical chute to be flown which would not be practical if used as a masthead chute as it could capsisze the Sea Bird as it does not have enough beam to allow this sail to be trusted in heavier winds. In fact, I prefer the gaff rig for this boat!
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 07-14-2018 at 12:20 PM.

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