Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    I recently swapped a small 13 fiberglass fishing boat for 17 fiberglass Freighter Canoe. After getting in home and up on saw horses I can see now that it would take a tremendous amount of work and materials to make it anywhere near usable.

    Since Ive enjoyed building a few watercrafts using the skin on frame method the first thing that comes to mind is using this old wreck as a mold to build duplicate using SOF. The old boat does have nice lines and looks like it would make for a very comfortable and stable all round boat for me.

    Here are the challenges I have for the new SOF boat.
    I would like to row/paddle, sail (very small sail, speed not required) and motor it with a 30 lb 2.5 outboard. I would need to build a strong solid framework on which to stretch the 10oz ballistic nylon and ideally keep it under 70-80 lbs so I can put it atop my small Mazda truck.

    Note: I have a pair of fibreglass pontoons, 6 long x 8x8 that could be used to provide additional stability and facilitate safer sailing. Id want the simplest rig, perhaps Lateen).

    I would build and use a rudder. The small outboard would be put on a bracket off the side of the canoe.
    Im aiming at a design similar to outrigger sailing canoes or something like the Angus Row Sail boat but built using Skin on Frame.

    My initial questions:

    • Is it feasible and realistic to use the old boat as a mold? Note: I could even drill into it if need be.
    • What woods would I use to make a strong frame work and ribs?
    • How would I build it over the old boat frame?
    • Can I keep it under 80 lbs and still have a seaworthy boat?

    I realize this is a pretty strange and perhaps crazy idea but Id like to know if it is doable or completely impossible.

    Feel free to shoot me down on this project I already have shoulders like a duck so it just flows right off.

    Cheers
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    41,764

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    It looks as though there is hollow in the stern, which does not suit SOF. Are the plastic skins damaged? It looks as though the skin can be reframed.
    If not look at geodesics which are the lightest framing method going.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bradford, VT
    Posts
    6,484

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Wouldn't it be faster, better, more satisfying and with a higher liklelihood of success to buy a Plat Monfort plans?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Toodyay, Western Australia
    Posts
    703

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    My eyes must be failing me. Looks like she would float as she is. What is it that stops her being usable right away?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    I don't think that stern seat compartment is necessary. The main question is how to use this old boat as a mold to build using either SOF or the Geodesic method.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    That is what I had intended but when I got a close look at the hull and gunwales they are in need of a lot of repair and the fiberglass doesn't feel strong, it feels weakened. Can almost push in the skin in several places, plus in the bow area someone put in what looks like a 3/8" large piece of matting and then pour a gallon of epoxy onto it. The bow weights as much as the rest of the boat. I don't think I could rip it out without destroying the shell. But the lines of the boat look good hence my thinking about using the boat as a mold. That is my main question: how to use an old boat as a mold.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Yes of course, but what hardship or learning would that bring (: ?

    I have built a few SOF watercraft, not the Geodesic method. I am aiming for a super strong boat that is seaworthy meaning it can take a pounding and rough rocky shore. The geodesic should handle that but can I use this old boat as a mold?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lake Champlain, Vermont
    Posts
    2,699

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Go for it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    3,100

    Default

    Honestly, and it will probably hurt your feelings. You made a mistake. You could probably make new in and out rails out of Ash the traditional wood to use on canoes and get some store-bought seats and sell it, use the $ and buy plans for the SOF you really want.

    And you want to use a skin on frame boat on a rocky Shore ... Uh

    Use that as a mold?, it doesn't even have nice lines it's just a hacked up canoe
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-09-2018 at 10:05 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    508

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    http://gentrycustomboats.com/What's_New.html Not sure if the plans are out yet, but that is the easiest path. Sailing canoes are fun, freighter canoes are brilliant boats, but sailing gear really clutters up a canoe. You really need to be out for a sail to have all the sail gear be worthwhile. Build something that sails and build a freighter canoe. As for the boat you have I wouldn't build off it, but if you got an itch go for it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,087

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    I don't think that stern seat compartment is necessary.
    The stern seat compartment (and also probably the one in the bow) are most likely flotation tanks - which a big fiberglass freight canoe would absolutely need. Granted, I can't see it in detail, but it seems to me that the boat you have could be fixed up with a lot less work than trying to use it for a "mold" of sorts to build a different one. If you want a sailing canoe why not just get a plan for a decent one and build it, instead of adopting some poorly though out plan to make one from this thing. Also be aware that sailing rigs tend to put a fair bit of stress on a hull. If you are planning to go SOF, it had better be on the sturdy end of the construction spectrum. You probably won't reach your weight goal if you want reasonable strength. Also be aware that if you stick those outriggers on it you will likely end up with a boat which is very difficult to tack, if it even will.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    All good info and appreciate, thanks Steve. Its hard to let something go once you've headed in a certain direction. My first hope was to patch it up and use it as is with a small motor and maybe add oar locks and oars, plus it would be pretty easy to paddle. Unfortunately a previous owner made an inside patch between the front seat and that air tank out of 3/8 thick fiberglass matting and what seems to have been several gallons of epoxy. That front 3' weights more than the rest of the boat. Not sure how or if I can take that patch out. If I could and after a few other repairs it would be a nice little boat.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Wow, I like that Indian Creek canoe. If I'd seen that first I'd have never gone to get the fiberglass freighter. I've already sent a note to Dave asking about the plans. Thanks for your input.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    I'm in duck mode no offense taken. Its hard to admit a mistake when you were all excited about a boat and it turns out to be a wreck. But it doesn't make sense to throw good after bad either. Thanks

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    3,100

    Default

    If it is actually a fiberglass canoe and you still want to try your hand at making a mold make a plaster mold of the good end, Then you can wax inside the plaster mold, line it with fiberglass and epoxy when it hardens cut the bad end and off and fiberglass the new end on to the canoe.

    fiberglass is easy to repair if you understand how layers and feather edge joints work, you can also do mold "ribs" out of fiberglass to reinforce the middle or other areas. that is done with flexible foam glass cloth and epoxy. it could be restored to look like new but is it worth the trouble? probably not.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Any thoughts on how to remove a bad, separating layer of fiberglass? Between the bow and the front seat is a large patch running from the bottom of the boat up to 3 inches shy of the gunwales. Looks like very thick matting was use and a gallon or two of epoxy. It made the bow as about 80 lbs, can hardly lift it while the stern lifts easily.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    3,100

    Default

    Hammer comes to mind
    Betting he didn't use epoxy.

    Those are some of the worst gunnels I ever saw in my life what the hell was he thinking LOL. It's a clear example of what people do to avoid bending or even steam bending. and it's actually one of the easier things to do in woodworking.
    Looking at the edges between the rails has the whole hull then doubled up with glass? it looks awful thick.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    3,100

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Looking at it from my desk top PC it looks a bit more "salvagable" I'm not for the built in floatation. you can add that to save weight,in the way of packs and or actual floatation bags. Lord knows what that "paint" is.

    This old town 18ft HW was missing about 2ft, the stem, the deck and rail ends. completely gone.. like a shark bite! we found it hanging in a shop in south street NYC marina area years ago.

    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Yes, it has been brutalized. The gunwales were replaced with 1x2, in pieces as short as 8 inches. The paint is a mystery and the hull has been patched a lot. The beam area has a 8" wide patch from gunwale to gunwale and the front inside bow section in front of the seat has a huge patch from floor to gunwales. Its starting to look like a flower bed is the best option.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,539

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    I'm pretty sure that I'd start with a design that was dedicated to SOF construction. There are some particular issues - particularly with fuselage frame construction on boats that have sheer curvature. You need to deal with the forces applied by the sheer clamps or inwales/outwales - usually by kerfing the ends and laminating or simply starting with a lamination. Nick Schade has a new design he's working with and is dealing with the problem by applying two thin, but wide stringers to the hull sides.

    Were you planning on mounting a motor on the SOF? If so, think about the forces applied to the transom and the surrounding stringers.

    Good luck!
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    coastal BC
    Posts
    755

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Have u had a look at Dave Gentry's new motor canoe ? His plans are well done http://gentrycustomboats.com/What's_New.html
    If growth is good then how much is enough

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,145

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    In order to use that as a plug it would require a higher level of repair then just fixing it for use. Whatever you pull off it will look just like the plug .... just awful and much much more work then putting new gunwales on the old boat.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia - USA
    Posts
    2,038

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    I think the boat has potential for restoration. A grinder can thin down the extra glass that was added. Gunwales, paint, seats and you're golden.
    Looks a lot like this boat, which I can not actually identify.
    canoe-kayak-paddle-boat-poster-patent-art-print-blueprint-16-x20.jpg

    I've talked with Steve already, but for everyone else - it is fairly simple to take offsets from the hull at (usually) three key spots, loft those into molds, then bend stringers around the molds to a stem and transom. This will get one more or less the exact hull shape. Ribs can be bent into place to fill her out. Add inwales, seats, floorboards, the skin, etc and one has a SOF replica.
    The same process can be used to replicate many an open boat - taking offsets from either from the hull itself, or simply from the designer's drawings.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Toodyay, Western Australia
    Posts
    703

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Quote Originally Posted by sdenault View Post
    I'm in duck mode no offense taken. Its hard to admit a mistake when you were all excited about a boat and it turns out to be a wreck. But it doesn't make sense to throw good after bad either. Thanks
    You have not made a mistake. The boat may need some work before she is pretty again, but so what. However, even though there may be obvious work, such as the really heavy patch, take the boat out for a paddle before you do anything. It isn't possible to fully understand what work really needs doing just by looking at her on a trailer. Get her to the water, see how she sits in the water, see how she handles, then work out what you think is the single biggest issue and target that... one step at a time.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Yes, I would like to have a small motor (2.5 hp) mounted but not on the transom, perhaps a bracket across the boat with the motor off the port side.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    Yes I have and it looks great. Plans coming soon!

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canda
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Use old freighter canoe as form/mold to build skin on frame duplicate?

    good advise, thanks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •