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Thread: Brits...brexit

  1. #1
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    Default Brits...brexit

    Recent story about Brit oligarchs colluding with Putin to get you out of the EU. I think Mueller dug it up. Gold and diamond mines were mentioned. Does it concern you or cause you to reconsider how that went? Or is it a nothingburger to you.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    We are aware that there was Russian and other cyber manipulation of the truth and only yesterday one of the exit promoting organisations was found guilty of a number of election expense fraud charges.Our government-such as it is- is so enthusiastic about not having to share power or be subordinate to any other assembly and is limping along the path to a cobbled up plan to an exit.They fought very hard to deny the parliamentary chamber a vote on the negotiated solution and they will fight even harder to deny the electorate a vote on the matter.Our best hope remains that the Irish border situation causes the DUP to withdraw their support and thus trigger an election.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    ^ A fair summary.
    The Little Englanders do not care about being lied to. Those hypocrites like Reece Mogg are already planning how to protect their fortunes from the crash, and leaders of industry are predicting economic disaster and job losses.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    We are aware that there was Russian and other cyber manipulation of the truth and only yesterday one of the exit promoting organisations was found guilty of a number of election expense fraud charges.Our government-such as it is- is so enthusiastic about not having to share power or be subordinate to any other assembly and is limping along the path to a cobbled up plan to an exit.They fought very hard to deny the parliamentary chamber a vote on the negotiated solution and they will fight even harder to deny the electorate a vote on the matter.Our best hope remains that the Irish border situation causes the DUP to withdraw their support and thus trigger an election.
    Mm. A better hope, to my mind, is that the EU/"UK" border runs from Gretna to Berwick, and both NI and Scotland remain in the EU. The leavers in England and Wales can sort out the rest.

    Andy
    "We were schooner-rigged and rakish, with a long and lissome hull ..."

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    We are aware that there was Russian and other cyber manipulation of the truth and only yesterday one of the exit promoting organisations was found guilty of a number of election expense fraud charges.Our government-such as it is- is so enthusiastic about not having to share power or be subordinate to any other assembly and is limping along the path to a cobbled up plan to an exit.They fought very hard to deny the parliamentary chamber a vote . . .
    Who has power to deny Parliament a vote on anything?
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Who has power to deny Parliament a vote on anything?
    The majority party through the cabinet.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    The stupidest thing Britain has done in 70 years.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    Mm. A better hope, to my mind, is that the EU/"UK" border runs from Gretna to Berwick, and both NI and Scotland remain in the EU. The leavers in England and Wales can sort out the rest.

    Andy
    And if that happens I shall apply for Scottish citizenship. Not to move - I have lived in Scotland and could do so again, but like where I live too much. But at least to retain my EU citizenship, which I value greatly.
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    ^ How will that work? And to what end if you do not live in Scotland?

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    ^ How will that work? And to what end if you do not live in Scotland?
    Tat EU citizenship thing? Something that might be useful to you with your working pattern.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    ^ How will that work? And to what end if you do not live in Scotland?
    It will work because my mother was Scottish. And, as an EU citizen, I can move freely and without formalities in all EU countries.
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    The stupidest thing Britain has done in 70 years.
    In the top five for sure, but there's some pretty hot competition.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by downthecreek View Post
    It will work because my mother was Scottish. And, as an EU citizen, I can move freely and without formalities in all EU countries.
    Careful what you wish for... these days, I look both ways before crossing the street.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis

    For the record, I have always been neutral on Brexit, I did not vote, because I cannot foretell the future. It seemed to me that to be avidly in or avidly out were both false..and the question of the most correct decision far too complicated; it would take about 5 years of intense study, and even then it would be little better than a 50/50 guess...because I can't foretell the future..

    I remember the days of having my passport stamped going to mainland Europe, it wasn't so bad. It was also possible to apply for and obtain residence and work permits. I cannot imagine this will not be possible again post Brexit.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    As of today, Italy owes just shy of 2.3 trillion in public debt...about 130% GDP to debt ratio.

    Spains numbers are about 1.2 trillion, almost 100% GDP to debt ratio.

    UK 1.7, 80%

    unemploymentEU.jpg

    http://business-review.eu/business/r...-the-eu-175150

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Careful what you wish for... these days, I look both ways before crossing the street.
    I know exactly what I'm wishing for. But I really can't be bothered arguing about it here.
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    As of today, Italy owes just shy of 2.3 trillion in public debt...about 130% GDP to debt ratio.

    Spains numbers are about 1.2 trillion, almost 100% GDP to debt ratio.

    UK 1.7, 80%

    unemploymentEU.jpg

    http://business-review.eu/business/r...-the-eu-175150
    And how much of Britain's "low unemployment" is minimimn wage, zero hours, or other McJobs? A very great deal of it.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Those types of jobs are not exclusive to the UK Andrew, they exist elsewhere in the EU too, so I would say the figures are a fair representation.

    My problem with remainers is they NEVER acknowledge the risks of remaining.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    As of today, Italy owes just shy of 2.3 trillion in public debt...about 130% GDP to debt ratio.

    Spains numbers are about 1.2 trillion, almost 100% GDP to debt ratio.

    UK 1.7, 80%

    unemploymentEU.jpg

    http://business-review.eu/business/r...-the-eu-175150
    And how much of Britain's "low unemployment" is minimimn wage, zero hours, or other McJobs? A very great deal of it.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Since we are constantly told that Britain has the highest level of labour mobility in the EU, and we are also well aware that President Macron has made it his mission to increase labour mobility in France, I think you are perhaps indulging in a little special pleading.

    The "risks of remaining" are - what, exactly? Let's have a list!
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post

    For the record, I have always been neutral on Brexit, I did not vote, because I cannot foretell the future. It seemed to me that to be avidly in or avidly out were both false..and the question of the most correct decision far too complicated; it would take about 5 years of intense study, and even then it would be little better than a 50/50 guess...because I can't foretell the future..

    I remember the days of having my passport stamped going to mainland Europe, it wasn't so bad. It was also possible to apply for and obtain residence and work permits. I cannot imagine this will not be possible again post Brexit.
    Kudos for an honest post.
    I on the other hand due to my work as a senior TU Rep needed to be well informed of what the EU did for us. I will be worried about what leaving does for those in and starting their employment as things could get a lot worse if we allow our Government to return to their noninterventionist kick issued into the long grass habits.

    On the issue of uninformed votes, by someone who should have known better there was this:
    From the Indy
    An irate local farmer told me he voted to leave as a protest against EU bureaucracy that delayed payments of his subsidies. When I pointed out that Defra was responsible for the delays, he said, “That’s right!”. He thought Defra was an EU department. He didn’t realise it was Britain’s Department for Rural Affairs and that the EU had fined our governmental department for its incompetent administration of subsidies. No matter, we got our country back, even if it means losing the subsidies and keeping the incompetence.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a7558886.html
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    I campaigned for us to join the Common Market, I am campaigning for us to stay in, and if necessary I will spend my declining years fighting to get us back in.

    One need only look at the gang of wide boys, spivs and chancers who are on the Leave side to form an opinion of the likelihood of them telling the truth, or even recognising th when they see it.

    Mrs May as a good Tory lady recognised an existential threat to the Tory Party from UKIP, so she camped the Tories on UKIP's ground and stole their clothes. Alas, as David Lammy memorably put it, if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas, and the Tories are now infested with the racism and crypto-Fascism that flourished in UKIP.

    She must now move off UKIP's ground and that is what she has been unable to do.

    She is about to spend a weekend telling the "bastards" to back her plan but her plan is likely to be unacceptable to the EU because she is still trying to cherry pick the Single Market.

    All this is happening because Labour elected the walking, talking, whining, embodiment of the Peter Principle as a "leader". With any of half a dozen other leaders May and the Tories would have been out by now.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 07-06-2018 at 08:49 AM.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Careful what you wish for... these days, I look both ways before crossing the street.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis

    For the record, I have always been neutral on Brexit, I did not vote, because I cannot foretell the future. It seemed to me that to be avidly in or avidly out were both false..and the question of the most correct decision far too complicated; it would take about 5 years of intense study, and even then it would be little better than a 50/50 guess...because I can't foretell the future..

    I remember the days of having my passport stamped going to mainland Europe, it wasn't so bad. It was also possible to apply for and obtain residence and work permits. I cannot imagine this will not be possible again post Brexit.
    "We all know what happens to people who try to walk down the middle of the road. They get run over!" (Nick will recognise the words of Aneurin Bevan)

    lupussonic is a Quitling, pretending to be a neutral and proffering quite irrelevant data about a problem which only affects the Euro, and which the Eurozone has been sorting out.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    lupussonic is a Quitling, pretending to be a neutral and proffering quite irrelevant data about a problem which only affects the Euro, and which the Eurozone has been sorting out.
    Fascinating.

    I am, and have always been neutral Andrew (my name is Martin by the way).

    Do you think certain countries spiraling debt and soaring unemployment rates are 'irrelevant' then?

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    I'm waiting for your list of "risks of remaining".

    Meanwhile, here's another graph:

    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    And another. Of course, the OECD is probably some evil liberal conspiracy:

    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Fascinating.

    I am, and have always been neutral Andrew (my name is Martin by the way).

    Do you think certain countries spiraling debt and soaring unemployment rates are 'irrelevant' then?
    Quite irrelevant to the issue of remaining in or leaving the EU.

    Let's have another graph:

    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Your graph is an own goal Andrew; it shows UK wages decreased by about 1/4%....???


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I'm waiting for your list of "risks of remaining"
    Is post 14 not enough for you? 2.2 trillion is no small beer, but if that's not enough...


    Add political instability..

    In Germany

    and Spain

    and Greece

    and Italy.

    Add the threat of internal disintegration.

    Add Russian aggression.

    Add Trump undermining Nato.

    Add a migration crisis.

    Add increasing dependence on China.

    Add a US trade war.

    Add the threat of terrorism.

    Add an endlessly unstable ME.

    Add the rise of home grown fascism.





    There's a start for you. If you consider yourself to be a balanced objective sort of chap, who knows, perhaps you can think of a few of your own?

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    ..the OECD is probably some evil liberal conspiracy:
    It may be easier for you to think that as I am neutral on Brexit, that I am some kind of liberal nutcase. Nothing could be further from the truth, and every single post I have made on the subject has been measured, balanced and took the long view. Please do not insinuate that I am intellectually or politically inferior to you or your opinions.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Your graph is an own goal Andrew; it shows UK wages decreased by about 1/4%....???
    Maybe the UK should've joined the Eurozone...

    Is post 14 not enough for you? 2.2 trillion is no small beer, but if that's not enough...

    Add political instability..

    In Germany

    and Spain

    and Greece

    and Italy.

    Add the threat of internal disintegration.

    Add Russian aggression.

    Add Trump undermining Nato.

    Add a migration crisis.

    Add increasing dependence on China.

    Add a US trade war.

    Add the threat of terrorism.

    Add an endlessly unstable ME.

    Add the rise of home grown fascism.

    There's a start for you. If you consider yourself to be a balanced objective sort of chap, who knows, perhaps you can think of a few of your own?
    ^ All of which tells anyone who cares to provide even a basic analysis of the situation that remaining in the planet's single largest trading block is called having leverage. Not being in it, but still effectively subject to its rules and having no vote on said rules, is called idiocy.
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Maybe the UK should've joined the Eurozone...


    ^ All of which tells anyone who cares to provide even a basic analysis of the situation that remaining in the planet's single largest trading block is called having leverage. Not being in it, but still effectively subject to its rules and having no vote on said rules, is called idiocy.
    IF Europe survives the above threats. Yes.

    IF it does not, then it isn't idiocy.

    Can I have a go on that crystal ball of your Duncan?

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Your graph is an own goal Andrew; it shows UK wages decreased by about 1/4%....???

    I don't see why you consider a graph showing that the UK is still the sick man of Northern Europe is an "own goal".


    Is post 14 not enough for you? 2.2 trillion is no small beer, but if that's not enough...


    Add political instability..

    In Germany

    and Spain

    and Greece

    and Italy.

    Add the threat of internal disintegration.

    Add Russian aggression.

    Add Trump undermining Nato.

    Add a migration crisis.

    Add increasing dependence on China.

    Add a US trade war.

    Add the threat of terrorism.

    Add an endlessly unstable ME.

    Add the rise of home grown fascism.

    There's a start for you. If you consider yourself to be a balanced objective sort of chap, who knows, perhaps you can think of a few of your own?
    How are these "risks of remaining"? They are risks, which we will face whether we leave or whether we remain. But in leaving we weaken our ability to respond to each and every one of them.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I don't see why you consider a graph showing that the UK is still the sick man of Northern Europe is an "own goal".
    Apologies, I thought your graph was meant to show how much we had prospered. It clearly doesn't however.

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    IF Europe survives the above threats. Yes.

    IF it does not, then it isn't idiocy.

    Can I have a go on that crystal ball of your Duncan?
    United we stand and divided we fall is a truism for reasons derived from bitter experience.

    I'll let you figure out what the best course is off the back of that little nugget...
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  34. #34
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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    Tell that to Switzerland..

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    Default Re: Brits...brexit

    The act of being 'tied together', whilst certainly not perfect, isn't something to be sneezed at. It means that, one way or another, compromises must be made. It's precisely the act of compromise whereby optimal performance can be achieved. Surely a study of boat design should reveal that analogy to be true.

    The EU has provided the single longest period of peace of prosperity in European history. The idea you guys should p!ss it all up against the wall because of single issue idiots is simply confounding to this antipodean.
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