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Thread: New canoe finished

  1. #1
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    Default New canoe finished

    She's a family and/or expedition sized boat, 17' x 38" and weighs about 51lbs. {5.2m x 96.5cm, 23kg}.

    Frame is as usual for me - western red cedar stingers, and 12mm Okoume marine ply frame. She's skinned with 8oz polyester, coated with oil based Rustoleum. I did give the fabric an undercoat of PL premium construction adhesive - I find that this goes on much smoother, and does a better job of getting into the weave, if one thins the PL down to a very thick paint consistency.

    The breasthooks, seats, spacers, etc are all cut from a dead cedar tree I stumbled over out in our woods. The inner wood was a bright purple/maroon, so I chainsawed out the least decayed section of the trunk. Splitting it down the middle revealed that the whole log was purple pretty much through and through, so I milled out some boards and used those for the trim. Turned out OK, I think, and I have a bit left over.
    Eastern red cedar, btw. And the color oxidizes pretty fast when exposed.

    Got her on the water with the fam, minus dog, and it went great. I'm calling her the Great Wicomico, and plans will be coming out "soon" - aka within a year I hope. [I quite dislike the time I have to spend writing building guides - it's a lot of effort that I'd rather be expending on building new boats . . . .]



    Great Wicomico 7.jpg

    Great Wicomico 9.jpg


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGentry View Post
    She's a family and/or expedition sized boat, 17' x 38" and weighs about 51lbs. {5.2m x 96.5cm, 23kg}.

    Frame is as usual for me - western red cedar stingers, and 12mm Okoume marine ply frame. She's skinned with 8oz polyester, coated with oil based Rustoleum. I did give the fabric an undercoat of PL premium construction adhesive - I find that this goes on much smoother, and does a better job of getting into the weave, if one thins the PL down to a very thick paint consistency.

    The breasthooks, seats, spacers, etc are all cut from a dead cedar tree I stumbled over out in our woods. The inner wood was a bright purple/maroon, so I chainsawed out the least decayed section of the trunk. Splitting it down the middle revealed that the whole log was purple pretty much through and through, so I milled out some boards and used those for the trim. Turned out OK, I think, and I have a bit left over.
    Eastern red cedar, btw. And the color oxidizes pretty fast when exposed.

    Got her on the water with the fam, minus dog, and it went great. I'm calling her the Great Wicomico, and plans will be coming out "soon" - aka within a year I hope. [I quite dislike the time I have to spend writing building guides - it's a lot of effort that I'd rather be expending on building new boats . . . .]



    Great Wicomico 7.jpg

    Great Wicomico 9.jpg

    I had to look twice! She is SOF?
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  3. #3
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Beautiful!
    Inspirational, too!

    question: what do you use to thin PL Premium?
    I rather be an American than a Republican.

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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Pretty boat. Nice job Dave!
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
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    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    She's lovely, like the rest of your fleet.

    I have a SOF transport question for you. I'm thinking about building a canoe or double kayak, as my wife isn't able to paddle anymore. I have SOF kayaks and I have never been sure about transporting them, because I was hesitant put a lot of tension on the straps on the body. Should I be worried? I see that you have hauled your boats long distances.

    Thanks

    Kenny
    Almost everything about boats involves so much more time and money than one anticipates that rational and accurate planning will deter even starting. Ian McColgin

  6. #6
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    A beautiful boat, and it fills a nitch in your plans list. I have wanted a larger light canoe, though my 15'x28" ultralight serves well.

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    one of my pet peeves. People so obsessed with weights of canoes. If they would just learn how to move them from water to vehicle & vehicle to water the right way, they would be a lot happier.
    15 x 30 I've never weighed her but I think she's between 50 and 60 pounds I can still carry her on one shoulder, although I have a carved carrying yoke if I ever do get back to paddling canoes again
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    one of my pet peeves. People so obsessed with weights of canoes. If they would just learn how to move them from water to vehicle & vehicle to water the right way, they would be a lot happier.
    For your use in your circumstances I can't argue in favor of SOF. Wood and canvas is so nice once it is on the water.

    There are three good reasons to be obsessed with weight. Portages, old age and infirmity. Consider yourself lucky if the second and third do not apply, yet. Opinions vary on portages. Every pound also adds a little bit to drag and takes away a little speed, both of which add up over the miles.

    Some folks think that you are poorer for never having experienced what lies beyond a portage. The whole reason we have the Wee Lassie is that George Washington "Nessmuck" Sears was a small man who suffered from tuberculosis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Sears
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  9. #9
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    I've portaged quite a bit Dave. I always rather P the canoe than the packs LOL My strip prospector had many portage trail miles on it.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Never once, in I don’t know how many thousands of miles of paddling and carrying out canoes, did we ever wish any of them weighed even one ounce more.

    That said, my 12’ SOF kayak is named Tumbleweed because one day it literally blew away. The wind picked it up and blew it about 1/4 mile down the beach. That might be too light...

    Lovely boat, eh. And lovely story about the wood. Thanks.

    Don’t answer if it’s a secret, but does the tumbled home stem have something to do with keeping the shape? It seems common on larger SOF canoes.

    I’m just curious if the design was as much as structural choice as an aesthetic one? Both in this model, and in the model being emulated, if any.

    I still think I like your wee outrigger canoe better. She’s cute!

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Great job again, looks beautiful from all angles.

    Wish I could find some decent timber in the woods, plenty of ‘Snap Willow” but as the name suggests useless, not even good for burning.

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    I probably should be hated on because I'm not keen on SOF never will be.

    My opinion is they are not that much lighter they are not 50% lighter what are they 20% maybe 15% lighter?

    my one real time encounter with skin on frame was this one over in Medford New Jersey a lady friend of mine has. and it's heavy, I posted about it a while back I think she still wants to get rid of it I know I don't want it.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-05-2018 at 01:33 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    one of my pet peeves. People so obsessed with weights of canoes. If they would just learn how to move them from water to vehicle & vehicle to water the right way, they would be a lot happier.
    15 x 30 I've never weighed her but I think she's between 50 and 60 pounds I can still carry her on one shoulder, although I have a carved carrying yoke if I ever do get back to paddling canoes again
    As Uffa said,
    Weight is only of use in a steam roller.

    My ply 12 x 30 is 15kg (33lbs) and the light weight has only ever given me positives and nothing remotely negative.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    I probably should be hated on because I'm not keen on SOF never will be.

    My opinion is they are not that much lighter they are not 50% lighter what are they 20% maybe 15% lighter?

    my one real time encounter with skin on frame was this one over in Medford New Jersey a lady friend of mine has. and it's heavy, I posted about it a while back I think she still wants to get rid of it I know I don't want it.

    Wow.

    This type ugliness is why I stopped posting here for a while. I will stop again.

    Why the heck did this become so ugly, and about hating people or boats?

    Jeez.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    I probably should be hated on because I'm not keen on SOF never will be.

    My opinion is they are not that much lighter they are not 50% lighter what are they 20% maybe 15% lighter?

    my one real time encounter with skin on frame was this one over in Medford New Jersey a lady friend of mine has. and it's heavy, I posted about it a while back I think she still wants to get rid of it I know I don't want it.

    SOF light weight comes from their minimum use of materials which makes them very economical. They are also quick to build. There are different ways of making them and can be as light as 8lbs and a beautiful as any construction out there




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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Nice boat, Mr. Gentry. I whole-heartedly agree with your line, "I quite dislike the time I have to spend writing building guides - it's a lot of effort that I'd rather be expending on building new boats . . . ", except for me, change the word "building" to "designing".
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Wow.

    This type ugliness is why I stopped posting here for a while. I will stop again.

    Why the heck did this become so ugly, and about hating people or boats?

    Jeez.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Probably because you don't understand what people write, it's a common affliction when people read things online. I'm entitled to an opinion, if you want ugly go read the bilge.

    No one never hesitates to tell me my boat is "too" heavy.

    SOF are lovely, Dave's are exquisite!

    I just don't care for SOF, I'd probably feel the same way about SOF airplanes

    The one sitting in Medford New Jersey, she can't even give away, it's old, seems is structurally sound, has no skin on it, seems like the whole superstructure is made out of white oak & mahogany, which is probably the negative. I was actually shocked how heavy it is without skin,
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-05-2018 at 04:04 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  18. #18
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Probably because you don't understand what people write, I'm entitled to an opinion, if you want ugly go read the bilge.

    No one never hesitates to tell me my boat is "too" heavy.

    SOF are lovely, Dave's are exquisite!

    I just don't care for SOF, I'd probably feel the same way about SOF airplanes

    The one sitting in Medford New Jersey, she can't even give away, it's old, seems is structurally sound, has no skin on it, seems like the whole superstructure is made out of white oak & mahogany, which probably the negative. I was actually shocked how heavy it is without skin,
    I read perfectly fine. But, thanks for keeping the nasty alive with your barb. Sweet.

    I didn’t bring hate into the thread. Nor start haranguing against SOF boats. You brought the ugly here. Nobody mentioned your boat, but you.

    I’ve had every build or repair I’ve ever posted here ridiculed. So? Why further the practice with the negativity on a thread about SOF boats? Go comment on something you do have experience with.

    Oh. By the by. My first SOF kayak was canvas covered. I coated the canvas with dope made for airplane fabric. For SOF planes...

    As to the Bilge, I’m Emperor For Life. Nuff said...

    Peace,
    Robert

  19. #19
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    This is a thread about a really nice SOF canoe. SOF isn't everybody's favorite way to build a boat, but a "Hey look at what I did" thread isn't the place to say what's wrong with the OP's new baby.

    Pardon the thread drift.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    I probably should be hated on because I'm not keen on SOF never will be.
    I prefer not to admit here that I am no more keen on SOF than you are on a thread like this. I meant no disrespect, I just wanted to point out that while you had a valid argument there are some functional advantages to minimizing weight. Looks like I totally missed my mark. SOF is not my cup of tea either. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate a job well done.
    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Wow.

    This type ugliness is why I stopped posting here for a while. I will stop again.

    Why the heck did this become so ugly, and about hating people or boats?

    Jeez.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Wow indeed. I confess that I am at something of a loss to understand where this is coming from.

    Denise and Rob, please stick around. You are some of the more amiable folks here, and you would be missed. I have disagreed with a few details that one or the other of you have posted, but I never thought that you were anything but a positive influence and making valuable contributions. It is difficult to be brief without being blunt. Some of us are better at it than others.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  20. #20
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    I'm pretty thick-skinned I spent most of my life in Contracting with male employees there's not much I haven't heard been told called or insinuated to be. Lol.

    I cast the same negativity when the good old topic of self rescue and capsize recovery in calm waters of a marina "prove" how great a boat is.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  21. #21
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Thanks for the kudos, everyone. I'm fairly pleased with the way she turned out - and glad I can now move on to the next boat . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianY View Post
    Beautiful!
    Inspirational, too!

    question: what do you use to thin PL Premium?
    Thanks! I thin it with (drum roll) . . . paint thinner. Or mineral spirits. Just squeeze out a bunch into a cup, add thinner, stir and stir and stir. Definitely an outdoor operation with gloves and eye protection. I still use an old credit card or the like to spread it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by minuteman View Post
    I have a SOF transport question for you. I'm thinking about building a canoe or double kayak, as my wife isn't able to paddle anymore. I have SOF kayaks and I have never been sure about transporting them, because I was hesitant put a lot of tension on the straps on the body. Should I be worried? I see that you have hauled your boats long distances.
    No worries, haul on those straps until they won't go any more. The stringers will bend, but it will be fine. The original Ruth has 8 or 9,000 miles of car topping, with no issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Don’t answer if it’s a secret, but does the tumbled home stem have something to do with keeping the shape? It seems common on larger SOF canoes.

    I’m just curious if the design was as much as structural choice as an aesthetic one? Both in this model, and in the model being emulated, if any.

    I still think I like your wee outrigger canoe better. She’s cute!
    Both design considerations and aesthetics go into that stem shape, at least for me. Design in that, to keep that sheer an upright stem would have to be taller, and with lightweight canoes, it's often best not to have more sail area in the ends.
    I've got another outrigger canoe on the drawing board that is both cooler and more authentic. But lots of boats in front of her, all trying to get out of my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Nice boat, Mr. Gentry. I whole-heartedly agree with your line, "I quite dislike the time I have to spend writing building guides - it's a lot of effort that I'd rather be expending on building new boats . . . ", except for me, change the word "building" to "designing".


    Dave
    Last edited by DGentry; 07-05-2018 at 07:30 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    (Humour alert, everybody! Don't get your knickers in a twist, please.)

    Dave, I hope that you will agree with me (with your tongue as firmly in your cheek as mine is as I type this) that there is a terrible temptation to answer requests for documentation to go along with drawings with a retort something like, "You should already know how to do this if you are considering building it! Read more! Visit more boatshops! Take a course!"

    But I don't, and I won't. Everybody gotta learn from somewhere, and it might as well be from you and me.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    I quite like your decks/breasthooks. Many builders stick a big, huge, ugly, slab of wood in there and rob their canoes of grace.
    "Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. " - Thoreau

  24. #24
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    This is a thread about a really nice SOF canoe. SOF isn't everybody's favorite way to build a boat, but a "Hey look at what I did" thread isn't the place to say what's wrong with the OP's new baby.

    Pardon the thread drift.

    I prefer not to admit here that I am no more keen on SOF than you are on a thread like this. I meant no disrespect, I just wanted to point out that while you had a valid argument there are some functional advantages to minimizing weight. Looks like I totally missed my mark. SOF is not my cup of tea either. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate a job well done.

    Wow indeed. I confess that I am at something of a loss to understand where this is coming from.

    Denise and Rob, please stick around. You are some of the more amiable folks here, and you would be missed. I have disagreed with a few details that one or the other of you have posted, but I never thought that you were anything but a positive influence and making valuable contributions. It is difficult to be brief without being blunt. Some of us are better at it than others.
    My point.

    All these threads are about someoneís boat. All of them. And, when someone posts negative things about the boats, and I donít mean rationale criticisms or queries, the negative comments do no good.

    Indeed, the ďtoo heavyĒ comments made to a person with a cedar/canvas canoe are as unhelpful and unrealistic as the ďnot tough enoughĒ comments are about SOF. Or glassed boats v. unglassed. Or plywood pro and con...

    Itís all pointless, is all. And, when it descends into personal attacks, or hating other people, well then itís not the place for me, because Iím not about that. ďMeanĒ jokes with my friends, with people I know? Sure. Darts and barbs at strangers over a matter of opinion? Nup. Not for me, is all. I got,other places to be besides the internet, so Iíll be okay.

    I come and go. I donít do much internet, anyway, as I find too much of it nasty. Or boring. Everywhere. I donít post any of my work here, anymore, again, either. The last few boats were the last, for now. So tired of defending. Haha.

    Like Denise, I tire of the negative, negative, negative. Which is why I donít spread it, nor abide it.

    Sorry, all, for the derailment. It is my lot to be ďthatĒ guy, I suppose. Would I had just stayed quiet.

    As always, I love you all, as if you were me.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by DGentry View Post
    Thanks for the kudos, everyone. I'm fairly pleased with the way she turned out - and glad I can now move on to the next boat . . . .


    Thanks! I thin it with (drum roll) . . . paint thinner. Or mineral spirits. Just squeeze out a bunch into a cup, add thinner, stir and stir and stir. Definitely an outdoor operation with gloves and eye protection. I still use an old credit card or the like to spread it out.


    No worries, haul on those straps until they won't go any more. The stringers will bend, but it will be fine. The original Ruth has 8 or 9,000 miles of car topping, with no issues.


    Both design considerations and aesthetics go into that stem shape, at least for me. Design in that, to keep that sheer an upright stem would have to be taller, and with lightweight canoes, it's often best not to have more sail area in the ends.
    I've got another outrigger canoe on the drawing board that is both cooler and more authentic. But lots of boats in front of her, all trying to get out of my head.




    Dave
    Thanks, Yo. I suspected as much about the stems. Iíve built enough SOF boats to know how HARD it can be to get and keep a sweet and a sweeping sheer.

    I canít wait to see what new boats you dream up. I wish we were neighbors. Shoot, thereís a roll of artificial sinew within armís reach, right now...

    Your outrigger hunt has me intrigued. Keep at it, Brother. Get all them others out, so we can see the new canoe, too. Wait, the other new canoe. After this canoe. The outrigger. Hehehe.

    Peace,
    Robert

  26. #26
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    one of my pet peeves. People so obsessed with weights of canoes. If they would just learn how to move them from water to vehicle & vehicle to water the right way, they would be a lot happier.
    15 x 30 I've never weighed her but I think she's between 50 and 60 pounds I can still carry her on one shoulder, although I have a carved carrying yoke if I ever do get back to paddling canoes again
    That is a lovely canoe. Iíd be pleased as punch to paddle that craft anywhere. Fantastic work.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    My point.

    All these threads are about someone’s boat. All of them. And, when someone posts negative things about the boats, and I don’t mean rationale criticisms or queries, the negative comments do no good.

    Indeed, the “too heavy” comments made to a person with a cedar/canvas canoe are as unhelpful and unrealistic as the “not tough enough” comments are about SOF. Or glassed boats v. unglassed. Or plywood pro and con...

    It’s all pointless, is all. And, when it descends into personal attacks, or hating other people, well then it’s not the place for me, because I’m not about that. “Mean” jokes with my friends, with people I know? Sure. Darts and barbs at strangers over a matter of opinion? Nup. Not for me, is all. I got,other places to be besides the internet, so I’ll be okay.

    I come and go. I don’t do much internet, anyway, as I find too much of it nasty. Or boring. Everywhere. I don’t post any of my work here, anymore, again, either. The last few boats were the last, for now. So tired of defending. Haha.

    Like Denise, I tire of the negative, negative, negative. Which is why I don’t spread it, nor abide it.

    Sorry, all, for the derailment. It is my lot to be “that” guy, I suppose. Would I had just stayed quiet.

    As always, I love you all, as if you were me.

    Peace,
    Robert

    This is the nicest forum I have used two in particular are just plain nasty with people just baiting people. I’ve even had someone posting ‘got a newbie to bite, haaa’ after I fought a particaular corner.

    I try, and often fail to go by - True - Necessary and Kind as a filter.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    This is the nicest forum I have used two in particular are just plain nasty with people just baiting people. Iíve even had someone posting Ďgot a newbie to bite, haaaí after I fought a particaular corner.

    I try, and often fail to go by - True - Necessary and Kind as a filter.
    Hereí my list:

    Does it need to be said?
    Does it need to be said by me?
    Does it need to be said now?

    In general, though, I also try to be nice and polite to all people, but especially like minds, such as boat builders and users.

    As to the internet, yes. I do practically none. Here, two other small niche forums, and the doodle page. Thassit, and itís more than enough.

    I do not enjoy the nasty game. It brings us all down as a whole.

    Again, all this only applies to public. Amongst friends, real or virtual, gloves come off. But, you must needs know a body before you begin jabbing it with barbs, lest you hit a vital nerve...

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. I realize many of the criticisms Iíve received are legitimate, because I donít often use the nicest materials. I really donít have enough disposable income to be messing around with boats. I really CANíT afford to do it right, and as such I really shouldnít be doing it at all.
    Fair is fair. My boats are all pretty junky.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: New canoe finished

    y'all are grown a$$ adults, no? I thought this thread was about daves canoe. if you don't like someone this website does have a block feature, I don understand the need for such an off topic and low level of discourse.

    i don't like SOF either. but I like this canoe a lot.. now only if it had sail rig

  30. #30

    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Sure is a pretty boat!

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Anchorage, AK, USA
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Nice job! Keep up the good work!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    coastal BC
    Posts
    750

    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Snazzy looking canoe . All that juniper wood is very cool sounds like you earned it , milling up the log yourself ! Good job .
    If growth is good then how much is enough

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern Europe
    Posts
    9,459

    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by telenorth View Post
    y'all are grown a$$ adults, no? I thought this thread was about daves canoe. if you don't like someone this website does have a block feature, I don understand the need for such an off topic and low level of discourse.

    i don't like SOF either. but I like this canoe a lot.. now only if it had sail rig
    Chautaqua is where its at! http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-canoe-sort-of

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern Europe
    Posts
    9,459

    Default Re: New canoe finished

    But...but....where s the report on the motor canoe Dave? Did you finish that up already? I think we might need to do a Vulcan mind meld, so we can see what you have in store, i would be very surprised if another of your brain boats wont end up hanging in the barn........

    Lovely job by the way!

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    973

    Default Re: New canoe finished

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    But...but....where s the report on the motor canoe Dave? Did you finish that up already? I think we might need to do a Vulcan mind meld, so we can see what you have in store, i would be very surprised if another of your brain boats wont end up hanging in the barn........

    Lovely job by the way!
    Absolutely, I am very interested to hear how the motor canoe turned out, as well as what else is taking shape.....

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