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Thread: The Better Part of Who We Are

  1. #1
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    Default The Better Part of Who We Are



    Here’s something for July 4th, the poem inscribed on the base of the Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor. Over the last 250 years, we’ve had multiple spasms of xenophobic hatred; the Know-Nothings in the 1850s objecting to those dreadful hordes of Irish Papists, the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 designed to keep California white, the Immigration Act of 1924, the proudest achievement of the KKK when they were a real force in politics, 30,000 of them marching down Pennsylvania Avenue in their pointy white hoods. We got over them. May we remember the better part of who we are, and work to stop this current fit before it does too much more damage.


    The New Colossus
    By Emma Lazarus

    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

    “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
    With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    (The 'twin cities' were New York and Brooklyn, BTW. Long time ago.)
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  2. #2
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Beautiful. The 'ideal' of what America is supposed to be. So, so easy to 'take yer eye off the ball'.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    It is hard to treat people like people when you donít see them as people.

    Countries and borders are as arbitrary as religions, and as divisive, whether or not that was the intent.

    We are are born where and who we are, and nobody controls that.

    After that, we are simply stuck on this ball with all the others until we leave. And, every one of us is the same. Different, but the same. My heart is your heart, my blood is your blood.

    The idea of one people excites me. The thoughts of lines and flags sadden me. These divisions we all entertain are as foolish as we who entertain them.

    I hope we can all one day look one another in the eyes and see only humans. Different, but the same.

    Peace,
    A Sneetch, Just A Sneetch

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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Thanks Keith - I need all the good energy I can get.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Beautiful. The 'ideal' of what America is supposed to be. So, so easy to 'take yer eye off the ball'.
    Yes, and my grandparents came here and we're legally processed in to become American citizens, we have taken our eye off the ball.

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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    thx Keith, and France as well.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    Yes, and my grandparents came here and we're legally processed in to become American citizens, we have taken our eye off the ball.
    If they came before 1923 from somewhere other than Asia, there were very few restrictions. You could pretty much walk in. My ancestors on one side came from England, Scotland, and Wales in the late 1800s, on the other from England very early and Germany around 1890. My wife's ancestors came from Britain, Scandinavia, Holland, and the Ukraine near Lvov, all around 1890-1900. My kids came from Korea in 1986 and 1989. My granddaughter's biological ancestors are from Korea, various parts of the British Isles, Norway, West African slaves, and a bit of Cherokee.

    What's your American Heritage?
    1. Native Americans
    2. Slaves
    3. Refugees
    4. Immigrants

    There are no other choices.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 07-04-2018 at 12:07 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Yeah. Most of us are in that same boat. Couldn't tell that, by todays divide.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    If they came before 1923 from somewhere other than Asia, there were very few restrictions. You could pretty much walk in. My ancestors on one side came from England, Scotland, and Wales in the late 1800s, on the other from England very early and Germany around 1890.

    What's your American Heritage?
    1. Native Americans
    2. Slaves
    3. Refugees
    4. Immigrants

    There are no other choices.
    Native Americans are no more native than anyone else. They certainly did not evolve here. They came from Asia.

    We could argue who had rights of ownership and the right to allow or deny others into the country, but all those people are long since dead. All the wars that should be fought over that issue should be long over.

    My heritage is that I was born here. That seems sufficient to be responsible for my ancestors' acts regardless of their heritage.
    Life is complex.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Native Americans are no more native than anyone else. They certainly did not evolve here. They came from Asia.
    Quite true. And just about every square inch of land on earth has been conquered and reconquered many times.

    But no reasonable person holds you responsible for things you didn't do yourself. Recognizing that you may benefit from them is merely being honest.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  11. #11
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    If they came before 1923 from somewhere other than Asia, there were very few restrictions. You could pretty much walk in. My ancestors on one side came from England, Scotland, and Wales in the late 1800s, on the other from England very early and Germany around 1890. My wife's ancestors came from Britain, Scandinavia, Holland, and the Ukraine near Lvov, all around 1890-1900. My kids came from Korea in 1986 and 1989. My granddaughter's biological ancestors are from Korea, various parts of the British Isles, Norway, West African slaves, and a bit of Cherokee.

    What's your American Heritage?
    1. Native Americans
    2. Slaves
    3. Refugees
    4. Immigrants

    There are no other choices.
    That is absolutely wrong, they HAD to be processed through places like Ellis Island, asked what skills they had, have literacy
    and meet the requirements of the LAWS at that time. Do some homework.

    "A larger share of immigrants came to America seeking economic opportunities. However, because the price of passage was steep, an estimated one-half or more of the white Europeans who made the voyage did so by becoming indentured servants. Although some people voluntarily indentured themselves, others were kidnapped in European cities and forced into servitude in America. Additionally, thousands of English convicts were shipped across the Atlantic as indentured servants."

    https://www.history.com/topics/u-s-i...on-before-1965

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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    thx Keith, and France as well.
    .

    +1
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    Crying white mothers are ratings gold. -- National Rifle Association

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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    That is absolutely wrong, they HAD to be processed through places like Ellis Island, asked what skills they had, have literacy and meet the requirements of the LAWS at that time. Do some homework.
    You obviously haven't done your homework. Until well into the 20th century, there were very few legal restrictions on who could immigrate, with the exception of the Chinese Exclusion Act. You can find a detailed list of the laws and their dates of implementation here. There were no literacy tests before 1917. There were restrictions on those with specified diseases, the disabled, and anarchists (really), but that's about all. Indentured servitude mostly stopped before independence, mainly because African slaves were cheaper, and you could keep them.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  14. #14
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Results Matter: . .
    I think bobbys admires Trump, because he thinks Trump is a better man than he is.

    He may be right.
    Rattling the teacups.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    That is absolutely wrong, they HAD to be processed through places like Ellis Island, asked what skills they had, have literacy
    and meet the requirements of the LAWS at that time. Do some homework.

    "A larger share of immigrants came to America seeking economic opportunities. However, because the price of passage was steep, an estimated one-half or more of the white Europeans who made the voyage did so by becoming indentured servants. Although some people voluntarily indentured themselves, others were kidnapped in European cities and forced into servitude in America. Additionally, thousands of English convicts were shipped across the Atlantic as indentured servants."

    https://www.history.com/topics/u-s-i...on-before-1965
    Before 1892, 'Ellis Island' didn't exist.

    Ellis Island



    4.5239 Google reviews



    Ellis Island, in Upper New York Bay, was the gateway for over 12 million immigrants to the U.S. as the United States' busiest immigrant inspection station for over 60 years from 1892 until 1954. Ellis Island was opened January 1, 1892. Wikipedia




    Established: January 1, 1892



    Year built: 1900 (Main Building)



    Architectural style: Renaissance Revival architecture


    Management: National Park Service


    Designers: Edward Lippincott Tilton, William A. Boring


    Did you know: Although some were turned away, 98 percent of those examined at Ellis Island were allowed into the country. surfnetkids.com

    Your complaint that illegals are illegal is valid, but immigration policy is a vast and complicated subject.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Before 1892, 'Ellis Island' didn't exist.



    Your complaint that illegals are illegal is valid, but immigration policy is a vast and complicated subject.
    Well that oughta leave the Rs behind; they only do half-vast.
    I don't care to know what the tough do when the going gets tough.

    I am interested in what the enlightened do.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Trump is ‘way worse than Obama. Obama deported an average of 3,000 people a week for 8 years. While we’re talking about how welcoming we are.
    Well, Mr. Botard, do you still deny all rhinocerotic evidence?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    From Washington Monthly (source). The Know-Nothings are back.

    For the Extremists, Embracing the Statue of Liberty Is Unpatriotic
    by Nancy LeTourneau July 6, 2018

    On Wednesday, Hillary Clinton acknowledged the July 4th holiday on Twitter and former Fox News host Eric Bolling reacted.

    Hillary Clinton @HillaryClinton
    242 years ago, we set out to build a more perfect union. We’re not finished yet. Happy Fourth of July.






    Eric Bolling @ericbolling

    Seriously Ms Clinton? That’s how you celebrate the greatest nation on Earth?
    This is downright UNPATRIOTIC!!
    Don’t listen folks, God Blessed America.



    Frankly, I was a bit shocked that the right wing has descended so far down the extremist rabbit hole that a picture of the Statue of Liberty and a statement about building a more perfect union is now viewed as unpatriotic. But it’s obvious that Lady Liberty, who has welcomed immigrants and refugees to this country for over 130 years, presents a problem for the nativists these days. Remember when Stephen Miller actually made the case that the statue doesn’t represent U.S. immigration policy and dismissed the “New Colossus” poem as nothing more than a late add-on?

    Whenever this topic comes up, I think back to what Stephen Miller told Joshua Green about this administration’s strategy.

    “The media tends to cover immigration issues through the frame of how it impacts everybody but actual citizens of the United States,” Miller complains . . . Miller and Bannon want Trump to undertake a radical recasting of U.S. policies, from immigration to trade to taxation, that would invert this frame by making the interests of [white] U.S. citizens (or what Miller and Bannon perceive to be their interests) predominant, almost to the point of exclusivity."

    In other words, the traditional frame used to talk about immigrants and refugees has been to focus on their plight, which engenders sympathy for them. Folks like Miller have set out to flip that narrative via fear-mongering about the threat posed by immigrants and refugees. To do so, they’ve had to lie and demonize the entire group. Here’s the problem with that:



    Unless you are Native American or the descendant of slaves, we’re all refugees and immigrants.

    In the end, this administration’s nativist policies aren’t actually aimed at all immigrants and refugees. Trump pretty much gave the game away when, during his diatribe about “**** hole” countries, he said we need more immigrants from countries like Norway. The goal here is to demonize black and brown immigrants and refugees. But it’s kinda hard to do that without speaking the racist parts out loud. That’s why the best description of this administration’s immigration policies is to call them what they are…white nationalism. From that perspective, embracing the Statue of Liberty in these times is considered unpatriotic.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Eric Bolling @ericbolling

    Seriously Ms Clinton? That’s how you celebrate the greatest nation on Earth?
    It's what America is, you fathead right wing pig. What do you celebrate?
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    Crying white mothers are ratings gold. -- National Rifle Association

  20. #20
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    It's what America is, you fathead right wing pig. What do you celebrate?
    Well said. May all fathead right wing pigs consider this food for thought.
    I don't care to know what the tough do when the going gets tough.

    I am interested in what the enlightened do.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: The Better Part of Who We Are

    A pig and a coward as well. "I'm sorry that others interpret it that way."

    In June 2011 on the Fox Business Network, Bolling criticized President Barack Obama's decision to meet with Gabon's president, Ali Bongo Ondimba, in the White House. Bolling remarked, "Guess who's coming to dinner? A dictator." He then went on to also criticize Obama for allowing rapper Common to appear in the White House a few weeks before, exclaiming "it's not the first time he's had a hoodlum in the hizzouse." Progressive group Media Matters criticized Bolling, saying "Calling the president of Gabon and Common 'hoods in the hizzy' is not colorful commentary, it is overt racism." Bolling at first defended himself on Twitter claiming that people were baselessly accusing him because he worked for Fox News. Bolling apologized for his comments, saying, "On Friday, we did a story about the president meeting with the president of Gabon. We got a little fast and loose with the language, and we know it's been interpreted as being disrespectful, and for that, I'm sorry."

    Bolling served as a co-host of The Five on the Fox News Channel, a roundtable discussion of the top political and cultural stories of the day. Bolling and then co-host political pundit Bob Beckel were known to take strong opposing positions on issues, positions that led to heated exchanges. The two, however, have developed a mutual respect and friendship, and Bolling possibly saved Beckel's life in 2011 when he performed the Heimlich maneuver on him at a local restaurant. Bolling also serves as guest host on many of the most popular Fox News opinion shows such as Hannity and Fox & Friends (and had guested The O'Reilly Factor and The Glenn Beck Show).

    It was announced on April 19, 2017, that as a result of the prime time lineup change with Bill O'Reilly's exit, The Five would be moving to the 9 p.m. time slot. The Fox News Specialists was created at the 5 p.m. time slot, replacing The Five, with Bolling serving as a co-host, alongside Katherine Timpf and Eboni Williams. The new program premiered on May 1, 2017.

    Sexual harassment allegations and departure from Fox News
    On August 4, 2017, HuffPost reported that several years before and on separate occasions, Bolling allegedly sent unsolicited lewd text messages and lewd photos to three female colleagues at Fox News or Fox Business Network. He is also accused of making "wildly inappropriate" comments to female employees. In response to the accusations, Fox News suspended Bolling pending the outcome of an investigation.[12] Caroline Heldman, a former Fox News guest, alleged that Bolling made numerous unwanted sexual advances towards her.[13] Bolling's attorney, Michael J. Bowe, responded that "no such unsolicited communications occurred" and that Bolling "will vigorously pursue his legal remedies" in response to the accusations.[13] On August 9, 2017, Bolling filed a $50 million defamation lawsuit in New York against freelance writer Yashar Ali who wrote the story for the Huffington Post.[14] Reacting to the suit, Ali stated that he stands by the accuracy of his story and will protect his sources. On September 8, 2017, the HuffPost reported that Bolling and Fox News had "amicably" parted ways. As a result of his departure, Fox News Specialists was canceled by the network.


    -- wikipedia
    This is the guy who's going to question our patriotism?
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    Crying white mothers are ratings gold. -- National Rifle Association

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