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Thread: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    I'm quite sure that FB video is of a different rescue under much better conditions of visibility and current. The water was muddy and rushing in other shots of the Thai cavern.
    Just so. If the kids walked in, where did that big fish come from?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #178
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    All out and all but one rescuer safe. I read that the diver who died will be given a State funeral so I hope that's right. A whole lot of genuine heroes in this story but I think the divers who searched the passages, including those who found the team, are amazing. I've done a little bit of cave diving too but nothing remotely akin to what these guys did. Absolutely amazing and brave beyond belief.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Great result.

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    A note from uncle Rupert (oriented more to the Oz audience):

    Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has hinted that Thai cave rescue hero Richard Harris and the rest of the Australian team will be formally recognised for their efforts when they return to Australia.

    Ms Bishop said Dr Harris, and Adelaide anaesthetist, had played an integral role, along with his diver partner, Perth vet Craig Challen, Australian Federal Police and Navy divers and DFAT personnel.

    Ms Bishop said she was delighted that the entire Wild Boars football team of young boys and their coach had been brought to safety after spending more than a fortnight trapped deep in a cave system near Chiang Rai in northern Thailand.

    “I’m absolutely delighted that this extraordinary ordeal is over, that the 12 boys and Coach Chantawong are safe,” Ms Bishop told ABC radio.


    “They’re being assessed, but I understand that they are going to be fine, and it is an extraordinary international effort, brilliantly led by the Thai authorities.



    “You’re right. There were times when people didn’t think that they’d be able to achieve this, and when the former Thai Navy seal died in the rescue attempts a few days ago, I think everyone’s spirits were very low, but now there are jubilant scenes coming from Chiang Rai, and understandably the rescue teams are physically and emotionally drained, but very excited that they’ve been able to achieve what is a world first, a most remarkable ordeal and rescue.”

    Ms Bishop said she understood Dr Harris had been the last person out of the cave.


    “That’s what I understand. He has been an integral part of the rescue attempt,” she said.


    “He was specifically identified by the British diving team as an expert whose skills would be required, and he was asked for at the highest levels in the Thai government and fortunately was able to go to Chiang Rai and be part of the rescue.


    “He is internationally renowned for his expertise in cave rescues. He’s very well known to us at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade because he’s part of the Australian medical assistance team that goes overseas under our aid program to support developing countries, indeed he spent some time in Vanuatu working at the Port Vila hospital under the Australian aid program.


    “He’s very well known to us, and his expertise is recognised around the world. His dive partner Craig Challen is a vet from Perth and he was also part of the rescue team.


    “It ended up being 20 Australian personnel all up, including the six federal police divers, the Navy clearance diver and members of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade crisis rescue team.”


    Ms Bishop said she had not yet had a chance to speak with Dr Harris.


    “He’s been on site. I’ve been maintaining contact with our ambassador Paul Robilliard and our team in the embassy,” she said.


    “They’ve been sending on messages of love and support and cheering them on every step of the way.”


    Asked whether Dr Harris was likely to be formally recognised for his efforts, Ms Bishop said the rescue had been an extraordinary team effort.


    “We’ve been part of the Thai-led international effort,” she said.


    “Dr Harris’s role has been quite extraordinary and I’m hoping that we’ll be in a position to thank all of our rescue team when they return to Australia.”


    Asked whether the recognition was likely to be formal, Ms Bishop said: “Indeed”.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    What a beautiful man.

    Peace,
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    What a beautiful man.

    Peace,
    Robert

    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    And now the rain arrives……………...

  9. #184
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Wow!

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  11. #186
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    One of the best and most inspiring things that has happened in a long time. Marred only by the death of that one heroic diver. And, yes, Rob - he is, indeed, beautiful.
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

  12. #187
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    I wonder how he died and how he was found. He may have lost the guideline or had a tangle, he may have been disorientated. He may have miscalculated his air supply or had a malfunction. A tragic loss however it happened.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    As I understand it, RFNK, he was caching oxygen bottles along the rescue route and misjudged his round-trip time (or his calculations were thrown off by the current impeding his rate of progress) and he simply ran out of oxygen on his return trip to the staging point, and he died of hypoxia. But this account is from memory only, so I may be mistaken.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  14. #189
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Michael's memory is correct.

    CBS/AP July 5, 2018, 11:10 PM

    Thailand cave rescue: Former Thai Navy SEAL dead from lack of oxygen, authorities say

    MAE SAI, Thailand -- Thai authorities say a former Navy SEAL working to rescue boys trapped in cave has died from lack of oxygen. According to BBC News, Saman Kunan, 38, lost consciousness on his way out of the Tham Luang cave complex after delivering supplies to the missing group, officials said.

    "A former SEAL who volunteered to help died last night around 2 a.m.," Chiang Rai Deputy Governor Passakorn Boonyaluck told reporters at the rescue site, BBC News reports. "His job was to deliver oxygen. He did not have enough on his way back."

    He could not be revived by his colleagues, according to BBC News.

    SEAL commander Arpakorn Yookongkaew told a news conference Friday morning that the rescuer was working in a volunteer capacity and died during an overnight mission in which he was placing oxygen canisters.

    Thai authorities are racing to pump out water from a flooded cave where 12 boys and their soccer coach have been trapped since June 23. Crews are drilling through rocks to make room for more hoses in an effort to quickly drain water from the cave before up to five inches of rain descends on the area, CBS News foreign correspondent Ben Tracy reports. They have already pumped out more than 34 million gallons of water, but so far it's not enough to safely remove the boys, who have been trapped inside for nearly two weeks.

    Even with medical treatment, some of the boys are said to be showing signs of weakness and malnutrition, prompting rescue crews to pump oxygen into the chamber where they are trapped.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thailan...es-2018-07-06/

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    As I understand it, RFNK, he was caching oxygen bottles along the rescue route and misjudged his round-trip time (or his calculations were thrown off by the current impeding his rate of progress) and he simply ran out of oxygen on his return trip to the staging point, and he died of hypoxia. But this account is from memory only, so I may be mistaken.
    Was he breathing 'oxygen' or air (SCUBA) ?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  16. #191
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Does it make a difference in the grand scheme, Rummy?
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  17. #192
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    I have just read that some pumps failed whilst a team were in the cave clearing up, a few hours after the rescue - they got out in a bit of a hurry, as the chambers flooded rapidly.
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    The press sometimes got confused.

    In actual rescue swimming, worming along under water in the passages, both rescuers and rescued breathed standard compressed air.

    Because the cave was getting loaded with CO2, pure O2 was introduced into that atmosphere and made available for individual 'sippy breaths'.

    The Thai SEAL who died, died of a lack of oxygen because his compressed air supply ran out as he returned from having laid a cache of compressed air bottles in the route.


    To save the google:


    Why the Thailand Cave Rescue Was So Difficult: A Diver Explains

    By John Ismay
    July 10, 2018

    Rescue operations reached a successful climax at the Tham Luang Cave complex in northern Thailand on Tuesday, where divers pulled the last trapped members of the Wild Boars soccer team to safety. Twelve young team members and their coach had been trapped in the flooded cave complex in Chiang Rai Province since June 23.

    Narrow passageways, near-zero visibility and the constant threat of a monsoon made the rescue operation incredibly difficult. Saman Gunan, 38, a former member of the Thai Navy SEALs, died after he lost consciousness while placing spare air tanks along the route to the cavern where the boys are trapped.

    How does one guide a dozen children through miles of subterranean passageways, including lengthy underwater channels, largely in the dark, when many of them can’t swim? John Ismay, a New York Times reporter who served as a diving officer in the United States Navy from 2003 to 2010 and was qualified in deep-sea diving and salvage operations, explains how a rescue mission could be pulled off.

    Just how hard was this rescue?

    Very tough. Every part of this operation presented its own difficulties. The rescuers were swimming through underwater passages, then surfacing and walking to the next flooded section and diving again. They had to repeat that process, and to do so with children — many of whom reportedly could not swim. Everything here was a trade-off between traditional safety considerations and operational necessity. The conditions unique to this problem would have dictated all of the decisions made at the site.

    How is cave diving different from diving in an ocean or a lake?

    In a cave, you have no free access to the surface, meaning if you have an emergency underwater, you can’t just dump your gear and bolt to the surface to get air. You have to get through the cave first. Your gear could get snagged or caught while you’re in a narrow passageway, and you might be unable to fix that problem by yourself. The more gear you bring with you, the more opportunities there are for something to get hung up on an outcropping of rock. I imagine these divers will have stripped down their gear to the absolute essentials for exactly this reason.

    Could the divers see underwater as they made their way out?

    I wouldn’t count on it. Any dirt in the cave will have made the water murky, especially as divers passed through it. It doesn’t take much agitation to stir that dirt up to the point where you won’t be able to see your hand in front of your face, even with a flashlight. Professional divers are used to low visibility and lowlight conditions like that underwater. The children probably weren’t.

    Thai and foreign divers rigged a static rope line through the underwater portions to guide their way. The adults and the children could pull themselves along such a line, which made navigation easier and reduced the chances of anyone getting lost underwater. Much of the journey would be made by feel, pulling themselves along bit by bit.

    Do United States military divers train in caves like this?

    I’ve never heard of any military unit doing a cave dive in training. The risks are enormous and the benefits probably do not justify it. The closest thing in the Navy dive manual is what’s called “enclosed space” diving, which includes diving in shipwrecks or inside the ballast tanks of submarines.

    For safety reasons, the Navy doesn’t allow divers to use scuba gear for those operations. Instead, it requires divers entering enclosed spaces to use one of two methods, both of which involve a compressor pumping air through an umbilical line to a diver wearing a full-face mask or a helmet that protect the entire head. Divers typically wear a compressed-air cylinder on their back as a backup source of air in case the umbilical line fails.

    It might be possible to connect enough umbilical line to go the entire distance, from the cave entrance to where the children were, but pushing air through miles of hose would require strong compressors.

    Using scuba gear, as the Thai divers apparently did, is riskier but was most likely the only choice available given the circumstances. There could be openings that are too small for a dive helmet, or it could be impossible to rig enough umbilical line from the outside of the cave to where the children were.

    How could children who had never dived before dive now?

    The answer is that you make it as simple as possible for them. A full-face mask, as the children reportedly used, does that. Typical scuba divers will wear a mask (like big swim goggles) that covers their eyes and will breathe through a separate regulator that’s connected to their air tanks through a rubber hose.

    A full-face mask combines those two into one, and adds the possibility of having through-water communications. That would make a lot of sense because the adult divers could talk the children through the dive as they go, checking in and making sure they were O.K.

    Do they have to worry about getting “the bends”?

    “The bends,” or decompression sickness, is a medical condition brought about by nitrogen bubbles in a person’s bloodstream. It’s a function of how much time you spend at a given depth, and whether you ascend slowly enough for the nitrogen in your blood to be naturally expelled through your lungs.

    The water in the caves doesn’t seem to be deep enough for decompression sickness to be much of a worry here.

    What is the United States military doing to help?

    A Defense Department official I spoke with said that at the request of the Thai government, there were about 30 American military personnel on site, mostly pararescuers from Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, Japan. The official said that none of the American service members were diving in the cave.

    Air Force Pararescuemen are among the best combat medics in the military and are all qualified divers. It’s not clear what their role is at the cave entrance, as the children who have been rescued so far have all been taken to local hospitals.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/w...m-escape-.html

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Does it make a difference in the grand scheme, Rummy?
    No, it does not change that he died. That is tragic.

    The media and others continually get facts about SCUBA wrong.
    [Guess I'm an occasional Forum pedant. ]
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    No, it does not change that he died. That is tragic.

    The media and others continually get facts about SCUBA wrong.
    [Guess I'm an occasional Forum pedant. ]
    It’s both. He ran out of compressed air, which contains oxygen. We need oxygen.

    Great bone to pick, eh? Nice place for jokes and smileys.

    Peace,
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Was he breathing 'oxygen' or air (SCUBA) ?
    He was breathing air, but it was the lack of oxygen, not the lack of nitrogen or carbon dioxide, that killed him. So, yeah, he was breathing oxygen as part of the mixture, and it was the lack of it that was the salient fact.

    Even a non-diver could be expected to know that.

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    As I understand it, RFNK, he was caching oxygen bottles along the rescue route and misjudged his round-trip time (or his calculations were thrown off by the current impeding his rate of progress) and he simply ran out of oxygen on his return trip to the staging point, and he died of hypoxia. But this account is from memory only, so I may be mistaken.
    Thanks Mike. Yes, I think we all knew he'd run out of air while laying tanks but I hadn't seen anywhere why he'd run out. I figured a miscalculation was most likely.

    Ordinarily, any diver's going to be monitoring his computer or gauges regularly but with such low visibility, it's even possible he couldn't see them or couldn't see them so readily that he was reminded of the time to turn. I guess it's also possible that the level of task loading - the nature of the rescue, the current, the huge effort involved in dragging tanks against the current and, possibly, a bit of a gap between his former diving role and the present task, threw his reasoning. All guesswork, of course.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Just for those interested:

    Cave diving (as opposed to to cave rescue) is governed by the 'rule of threes'. Firstly, it applies to incidents: if any three things go wrong on the day leading up to the dive, whether related directly to the dive or not, or during preparation, or during the dive, the dive is aborted. Secondly, each diver must have three independent light sources. If the dive is in a sinkhole or cavern where light penetrates, then only two torches need to be carried. Thirdly, divers only penetrate a cave up to the point where any one of the team has used a third of his or her air. Only if additional tanks (stage tanks) have already been laid is this rule changed. Naturally, stage tanks are also laid according to the rule of threes and the known level of air usage of team members.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Imhave trouble understanding how a diver laying staging tanks runs out of air. Tragic, you'd have thought he could go back to one of the tanks he has laid. Did he cut corners due to the pressure of the situation? You'd have thought not, as a trained and experienced cave diver. You have to think equipment malfunction, as surely he would monitor his air very carefully, even in minimal visibility. I don't know, just doesn't make sense. It will be interesting to see how the movie deals with it.

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Just for those interested:

    Cave diving (as opposed to to cave rescue) is governed by the 'rule of threes'. Firstly, it applies to incidents: if any three things go wrong on the day leading up to the dive, whether related directly to the dive or not, or during preparation, or during the dive, the dive is aborted. Secondly, each diver must have three independent light sources. If the dive is in a sinkhole or cavern where light penetrates, then only two torches need to be carried. Thirdly, divers only penetrate a cave up to the point where any one of the team has used a third of his or her air. Only if additional tanks (stage tanks) have already been laid is this rule changed. Naturally, stage tanks are also laid according to the rule of threes and the known level of air usage of team members.

    Rick
    Looks like cave cave diving is out for me. I have at least 3 things go wrong every day.

  26. #201
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Now that the rescue of the boys and their coach has been completed successfully (congrats and thanks to all who helped, even just a little bit), I am waiting to see whom is the first to take undue credit for the rescue, and who points the first finger of blame for the death of the diver. I hope that I am pleasantly disappointed.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Sporting news here says that some of the boys and the coach are stateless. Not Thai nationals and as such have no passport and cannot even leave their province. The Coach cannot get registration and formal qualifications for the same reason.
    Man. U. have issued an invitation to the whole team that at least some cannot accept.

  28. #203
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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Stateless. In the face of this high tech, international miracle, there is very much a vibrant third world out there.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Imhave trouble understanding how a diver laying staging tanks runs out of air. Tragic, you'd have thought he could go back to one of the tanks he has laid. Did he cut corners due to the pressure of the situation? You'd have thought not, as a trained and experienced cave diver. You have to think equipment malfunction, as surely he would monitor his air very carefully, even in minimal visibility. I don't know, just doesn't make sense. It will be interesting to see how the movie deals with it.
    I've (stupidly) run out of air on a regular, open dive. You don't get any warning. When the tank is out, your last breath feels restricted then, nothing. If he wasn't seeing his air gauge, he'd have had no time to get to the next tank, especially with no visibility. He was probably on his way back and may have been in a spot with no tanks laid anyway. But it's wild speculation, we might never know how it happened.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Normally, divers take twin tanks into caves, with twin or twinned air sources. Divers have their tanks on their backs, upright or upside down like firemen. Or they have them slung on the side so that they're more easily removed for squeezes. Except in extreme penetration situations, divers always buddy up and always carry hoses that are long enough to share air.

    In images I've seen from this rescue, there've been people wearing single tanks - could be all sorts of reasons for that - they might have only been carrying tanks in, not diving at all. And I wonder if the diver who died was alone. Ordinarily, he shouldn't have been. But, who knows, in these extraordinary circumstances?

    Rick

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Sporting news here says that some of the boys and the coach are stateless. Not Thai nationals and as such have no passport and cannot even leave their province. The Coach cannot get registration and formal qualifications for the same reason.
    Man. U. have issued an invitation to the whole team that at least some cannot accept.
    I reckon they'll sort it out! I think it's an example of squuezing the news lemon a little further .....

    Rick

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    They are very close to a border, and most border areas have the same problem to one extent or another. I too think it will be sorted rather quickly, the King can just fix it with a signature.

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Sporting news here says that some of the boys and the coach are stateless. Not Thai nationals and as such have no passport and cannot even leave their province. The Coach cannot get registration and formal qualifications for the same reason.
    Man. U. have issued an invitation to the whole team that at least some cannot accept.
    I've met many such people along the Myanmar border. Same in some of the other Asian countries. Even third generation people that the 'host' country don't recognise as citizens. Often, they are paid about a quarter of what a national would make.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    Adul-Sam-on is14. Speaks English, Thai, Burmese, Mandarin and his home language Wa. Translated for the divers and the rest of his team. He's top pupil in his class, gets free tuition and lunch by way of a 'scholarship'. His parents are still on the other side of the border, he was brought across "in the hope he would have a better life than his parents had", which is what most refugees an immigrants hope. This boy and his compatriots would make fine citizens of any country that will have them. Maybe Thailand, after the military relinquish control
    There are an estimated 40,000 stateless persons like him along the border possibly 3 million in the country as a whole..

    I expect that there will be some pressure to make the stateless team members citizens, but who knows, the army is in control.

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    Default Re: Lost soccer team found alive in cave

    This article includes video of the rescue. Note that one of the the divers is using twin tanks, side slung and the other diver is using a rebreather. Actually, both divers have side slung tanks and then we see footage of a diver with a rebreather. I'm guessing the rebreather diver carried the tanks for the boy. I think the `diver' without a tank, with the orange helmet, must be one of the boys so it has to be video taken from within the chamber, right at the start of an extraction of one of the boys. I think. Note the thin guideline - that's their only guide to the exit.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-1...-seals/9984092

    Rick

    I've looked at that first part of the video again and again. Now I'm not so sure - it looks like the orange helmeted diver does have side slung tanks too so .... either he's not a boy or the boys carried tanks too. I don't think the boys did actually carry tanks though. All guesswork - looking forward to finding out how it was all actually done!
    Last edited by RFNK; 07-12-2018 at 05:55 AM.

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