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Thread: Trophy Kill

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I would hope we could be so universally egalitarian that a country need not depend on such. As a race, we humans produce more than enough, but we’re stuck on foolish notions of Race.

    Why are there places on the planet fellow humans live such lives?

    That’s what upsets me. More than the hunts. What the hunts represent.


    Peace,
    Robert

    i can see that as well.

    as far as all of this goes or how i feel about it... trophy hunting, not my thing. but it also doesn't bother me that other people want to hunt exotic animals. and if their money can go to helping conservation then all the better i say. me? i'll stick to dove hunts, occasional deer hunts, fishing, and beer hunting.

    if you ever delve into animal conservation and animal population control you will find that most of it is done by, and paid for by hunters and fishers. exotic trophy hunting aside, i think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of hunters have a deep connection with the woods and animals they're there to hunt.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    You're doing great Rob! Not making a dent but, doing great!
    Iím not trying to dent anyone. Iím trying to find a way that we can all see along the same set of parallel lines.

    You know what parallel lines do in the distance, right?

    They converge into a single point.

    Peace,
    Robert

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    I try to imagine a veterinarian who was beside himself with exhilaration at the prospect of putting down an old dog and I don't see a lot of difference here. For a thoughtful, caring person there is a complex spectrum of emotion at the taking of a life. Yes, it was the animal's time to die as all living things must. But there is a sadness or at least some respect for the life lived as well. Perhaps something solemn. No thoughtful caring person is 'thrilled' by any of it even when arguably it is necessary. Yet these trophy hunters always seem to be.
    Last edited by JimD; 07-02-2018 at 03:31 PM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i can see that as well.

    as far as all of this goes or how i feel about it... trophy hunting, not my thing. but it also doesn't bother me that other people want to hunt exotic animals. and if their money can go to helping conservation then all the better i say. me? i'll stick to dove hunts, occasional deer hunts, fishing, and beer hunting.

    if you ever delve into animal conservation and animal population control you will find that most of it is done by, and paid for by hunters and fishers. exotic trophy hunting aside, i think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of hunters have a deep connection with the woods and animals they're there to hunt.
    You mean like the fish and waterfowl organizations I’ve been a member of for my whole life?

    I think you’ll find I am an exemplary hunter, capable of working flushers, pointers, and retrievers. I also have some experience with squirrel dogs.
    I try to never eat from a silver hook, either. I know how to drag em up, too.

    I am not trying to do anything except help you see why some people object to trophy hunts such as this. I have no personal objection to hunting, per se.

    Killing a polar bear, or tiger, or some exotic somesuch as that never occurs to me, but if people who understand that concept can’t see why I find it odd, they should never expect me to accept it as normal.

    The two way street of understanding one another has been buried under decades of rhetorical nonsense. Building and building until we are all coke or pepsi, rather then the interesting melange of ideals and thoughts most of us really are.

    Thanks for talking about it.

    Peace,
    Robert

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    You mean like the fish and waterfowl organizations I’ve been a member of for my whole life?

    I think you’ll find I am an exemplary hunter, capable of working flushers, pointers, and retrievers. I also have some experience with squirrel dogs.
    I try to never eat from a silver hook, either. I know how to drag em up, too.

    I am not trying to do anything except help you see why some people object to trophy hunts such as this. I have no personal objection to hunting, per se.

    Killing a polar bear, or tiger, or some exotic somesuch as that never occurs to me, but if people who understand that concept can’t see why I find it odd, they should never expect me to accept it as normal.

    The two way street of understanding one another has been buried under decades of rhetorical nonsense. Building and building until we are all coke or pepsi, rather then the interesting melange of ideals and thoughts most of us really are.

    Thanks for talking about it.

    Peace,
    Robert

    oh, i know why people get upset about it. irrational emotions. and while we all throw out the "exotic animal" excuse as a justification as why they shouldn't be doing it, we need to remember that what's exotic here aint always exotic everywhere. those african tribes have been hunting giraffe and elephants for thousands of years. it would be interesting to see a response from actual africans when told how outraged everyone is over a giraffe getting shot.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    oh, i know why people get upset about it. irrational emotions. and while we all throw out the "exotic animal" excuse as a justification as why they shouldn't be doing it, we need to remember that what's exotic here aint always exotic everywhere. those african tribes have been hunting giraffe and elephants for thousands of years. it would be interesting to see a response from actual africans when told how outraged everyone is over a giraffe getting shot.
    The idea that an animal in my own backyard is too valuable for me to kill might irk me. Were I a person from a place with a living tradition of hunting animals, but I couldn’t afford to do so, but rather had to watch some rich foreigner (even a guy from another African country in this case, or, say a Canadian come here to hunt a black bear) come in and just shoot the thing then cut some bit off it and leave the rest for us locals...

    That’s a lens of humanity. A point of view. It doesn’t make it necessarily right or wrong, nor even valid. But, it makes it a viewpoint based on someone’s perceptions, which may or may not be accurate.
    Together, by laying our views out in conversations such as this, we can find some place we can all agree to disagree politely about some nuances we both find acceptable.

    Until then, if we are patient and loving toward our fellow humans, we slowly grind and nudge and wrestle, like a box of rocks settling into the ideal placement to most completely and stably fill it. We shuffle until all the rocks find the place they fit best.

    Yes. I really am that simple minded.

    Peace,
    Robert

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    The idea that an animal in my own backyard is too valuable for me to kill might irk me. Were I a person from a place with a living tradition of hunting animals, but I couldn’t afford to do so, but rather had to watch some rich foreigner (even a guy from another African country in this case, or, say a Canadian come here to hunt a black bear) come in and just shoot the thing then cut some bit off it and leave the rest for us locals...

    That’s a lens of humanity. A point of view. It doesn’t make it necessarily right or wrong, nor even valid. But, it makes it a viewpoint based on someone’s perceptions, which may or may not be accurate.
    Together, by laying our views out in conversations such as this, we can find some place we can all agree to disagree politely about some nuances we both find acceptable.

    Until then, if we are patient and loving toward our fellow humans, we slowly grind and nudge and wrestle, like a box of rocks settling into the ideal placement to most completely and stably fill it. We shuffle until all the rocks find the place they fit best.

    Yes. I really am that simple minded.

    Peace,
    Robert

    the best things in life are simple rob! i appreciate your discussion on the topic. and i really do understand those points of view and can sympathize with them. but i have to wonder, can i get some rich foreigners to pay me to kill off the squirrels in my yard? i'll only charge $500/squirrel. i don't know how i'll identify the older unproductive males so we'll probably just have to shoot them all.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    the best things in life are simple rob! i appreciate your discussion on the topic. and i really do understand those points of view and can sympathize with them. but i have to wonder, can i get some rich foreigners to pay me to kill off the squirrels in my yard? i'll only charge $500/squirrel. i don't know how i'll identify the older unproductive males so we'll probably just have to shoot them all.
    Get a Mastiff and train her to be a squirrel dog. We are squirrel free for the first time in four years...

    Failing that, I will be your gamekeeper, and I will guarantee your paying sports whatever length and bushiness they are after in a squirrel tail.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Mums the word there are no bigfoots in Oregon..

    Not saying i know anything about this.....
    Yeah, you and Steven Spielberg!



    Heartless, heartless man.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    In the article the giraffe in question is described as post reproductive and a member of a subspecies who's numbers are increasing
    LOL………….. I got that David…………
    Maybe the trophy hunters should go after the ultimate trophy, another armed trophy hunter?

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    ^ there was a film on that very subject

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i get that point. but the whole reason they let a hunter cull the animal is money. money they use for conservation, education, and feeding local tribes. would you expect a poor african region to forego millions in revenue just so they can cull an animal behind closed doors and no one gets upset about it?
    Correct, and if the money wasn't there, like it is in some areas of Africa they would be killing rinos and elephants for the black market trade so it comes down to let the trophy hunter kill an animal under controls or let the market hunters do it with no controls.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    pffft. i guess you're a vegan that ramps his car off the road for squirrels.
    Shooting a giraffe is not something to be proud of.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    When you see the size of the rifles used and know how aggressive a giraffe can be (not), it seems to me if the Great White Hunter really wants to prove their courage they should get a 10 inch knife and walk into the bush to kill a lion. Give the animal a fair chance. The knife is bigger than the cats claws or teeth. Now that would be a trophy.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    When you see the size of the rifles used and know how aggressive a giraffe can be (not), it seems to me if the Great White Hunter really wants to prove their courage they should get a 10 inch knife and walk into the bush to kill a lion. Give the animal a fair chance. The knife is bigger than the cats claws or teeth. Now that would be a trophy.
    And there is a good chance the lion will get a trophy kill.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    ..and know how aggressive a giraffe can be (not)..
    If this animal was not aggressive, how did it manage to kill 3 breeding members of its group? Love them to death?

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    Correct, and if the money wasn't there, like it is in some areas of Africa they would be killing rinos and elephants for the black market trade so it comes down to let the trophy hunter kill an animal under controls or let the market hunters do it with no controls.
    If I were the one selling those trophy licenses it would be a matter of hold my nose and do it for the greater good. Doubt if I could stomach being in the company of the idiot I sold it to. If there was a legitimate case for culling the targeted animal I would much prefer to have it done by a park and conservation officer but for the money to be raised.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    If this animal was not aggressive, how did it manage to kill 3 breeding members of its group? Love them to death?
    A farmer's bull will do the same. Even some stallions. Do you support shooting cattle for sport? Horses? A giraffe is not normally the type of animal we normally think of as aggressive. A moose is more aggressive.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    And then there's man, we throw killers in jail for life supposedly.

  20. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    A farmer's bull will do the same. Even some stallions. Do you support shooting cattle for sport? Horses? A giraffe is not normally the type of animal we normally think of as aggressive. A moose is more aggressive.
    Ranchers regularly kill non-breeding bulls and stallions which pose a danger to other livestock, and if you don't think Giraffes are aggressive, Youtube is full of them killing each other, lions and even men. Those are just the ones captured on video. Many others happen without recording.

    What's a moose got to do with it? Do they get into it with giraffes often in your neighborhood?

  21. #56
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    Donn, you are smarter than this. Your argument is the very definition of "specious". Ranchers don't kill non-breeding bulls or stallions for sport. As for moose, my relatives who are avid hunters won't hunt a moose precisely because it's too much like shooting a cow. There is no sport in these things, not real risk to life or limb. Either you hunt for meat or for sport. There is no sport if missing your target is all that you risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    Ranchers regularly kill non-breeding bulls and stallions which pose a danger to other livestock, and if you don't think Giraffes are aggressive, Youtube is full of them killing each other, lions and even men. Those are just the ones captured on video. Many others happen without recording.

    What's a moose got to do with it? Do they get into it with giraffes often in your neighborhood?

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    25,000 and counting 1,2,3,4,5.....An par with the first 25,000 bobbys!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Either you hunt for meat or for sport.
    You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Sport in hunting has nothing to do with endangering oneself in the hunt. Where do you get these hare-brained notions?

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I understand hunting, although it does not appeal to me. I do not understand killing rare animals for a trophy.



    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp
    the part ignored- the local media seemingly didnít consider this cull, a positive. Maybe they donít understand game management, eh?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Sport in hunting has nothing to do with endangering oneself in the hunt. Where do you get these hare-brained notions?
    but for you're dick cheney's hunting partner
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    How do you know he did not photo shop himself in the picture?
    You're so cynical! He was on the set, the triceratops was there, why would he need Photoshop? All he needed was a gun for a dinosaur...

  27. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    but for you're dick cheney's hunting partner
    I was surprised there wasn't more sympathy for Cheney. After all, who among us hasn't wanted to shoot a lawyer in the face? Well, me, but I'm unusually saintlike.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    if you ever delve into animal conservation and animal population control you will find that most of it is done by, and paid for by hunters and fishers.
    an article of faith amongst conservatives that's just not true. at least for the conservation. the killing, aka control, you guys love that ****.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Sport in hunting has nothing to do with endangering oneself in the hunt. Where do you get these hare-brained notions?
    coursing lions was all about danger, sir donn of the doublewide. So was the now mostly outlawed fox-hunting.

    But I sense you never read a rare hunting book, did you?

    boone & crockett is all about fair chaise and not giving yourself an "improper" advantage over animals. shooting a bear tied to a tree is far safer for you than shooting one that is nominally free https://www.boone-crockett.org/pdf/On_Fair_Chase.pdf
    Last edited by Hugh Conway; 07-02-2018 at 10:43 PM.

  30. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    But I sense you never read a rare hunting book, did you?
    What on earth does reading a "rare hunting book" have to do with knowledge of hunting? Does it make you an armchair hunter?

    I've hunted since I was 10, on 3 continents. That's 60 years of widely varied experience.

    boone & crockett is all about fair chaise[sic] and not giving yourself an "improper" advantage over animals.
    Daniel Boone and Davey Crockett hunted with long guns. They were snipers who either ambushed game at great distances, or treed them with hounds and shot them out of the trees. No improper advantage? You're a fool. Boone and Crockett are one of the ultimate coup counters of elite hunters. They keep track of 'record' kills and racks of antlers.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    it's not the anti-hunting crowd that helps animal populations, it's the hunters and wildlife management programs for hunting.
    What nonsense.

    Wildlife is protected, here, such as it can be in a country over run by animals such as foxes and rabbits (brought in for hunting), by regulation and targeted control.

    Selling a captive animal to a d!@khead with a gun is no match for professional science based environmental management.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    I've hunted since I was 10, on 3 continents. That's 60 years of widely varied experience.
    So why are you choosing to distort the Boone & Crockett club? Is it playing for the audience here by picking out someone you percieve as weak (you'd never do that bwana, would you Donn of the doublewide), or because you are an idiot? I posted the ethics of the club, not some historical dissertation you'd lie about.

    Yeah, hunting ethics have changed in 200 years. People don't jack for deer in the adirondacks anymore either you old fool.

    I frankly don't believe a thing you say, because you've proven to be an unreliable narrator and not an amusing one at that. so babble on for the rest of the dinner tables at the senior center.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Hunting is fine - but call it how it is.
    Farming big animals, and setting them up for a shot is not hunting. In some cases on these 'conservation' parks they even tie the animal to a stump for the customer to shoot them and get a trophy. Fine, at least its not poaching, if that's what you want - but i fail to see how it can be called hunting and not target practice.

    Killing endangered or at risk animals for fun - or food - is plain wrong.
    Killing an animal just for fun diminishes a person.

    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Hunting is fine - but call it how it is.
    Farming big animals, and setting them up for a shot is not hunting. In some cases on these 'conservation' parks they even tie the animal to a stump for the customer to shoot them and get a trophy. Fine, at least its not poaching, if that's what you want - but i fail to see how it can be called hunting and not target practice.
    I've driven past a canned hunt farm on a Mississippi river bottom many years now. It's empty 9 months a year. Starting in fall suddenly appear the elk that should have been in that river bottom forever. And then - bang - they are gone in november - too some jerk who found "sport" in killing an elk in a 2 acre meadow. Big bwana he was.
    Last edited by Hugh Conway; 07-03-2018 at 03:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Trophy hunt by all means, be a hero. You get a spear and nothing else. The lion or elephant gets what nature provided. If you win you deserve the trophy, if you lose the bits remaining will be bagged and returned to your family.

    Sign here ..................
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