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Thread: Trophy Kill

  1. #1
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    Default Trophy Kill

    I understand hunting, although it does not appeal to me. I do not understand killing rare animals for a trophy.

    American hunter's images of her black giraffe 'trophy kill' spark outrage

    Photos of a female hunter from Kentucky proudly showing off the results of her “dream hunt” – a dead black giraffe in South Africa – have ignited a firestorm across social media after being picked up by a local African media outlet.

    “White American savage who is partly a Neanderthal comes to Africa and shoot down a very rare black giraffe courtesy of South Africa stupidity,” read the June 2018 tweet, posted by Africa Digest. “Her name is Tess Thompson Talley. Please share.”

    The controversial images, which were posted by a Kentucky woman identified as Tess Thompson Talley a year ago, show her standing proudly beside a dead giraffe bull along with the caption: “Prayers for my once in a lifetime dream hunt came true today! Spotted this rare black giraffe bull and stalked him for quite a while. I knew it was the one. He was over 18 years old, 4000 lbs. and was blessed to be able to get 2000 lbs. of meat from him.”

    Trophy hunting is a legal practice in a number of African countries, including South Africa, Namibia, Zambia and Zimbabwe.

    “The giraffe I hunted was the South African sub-species of giraffe. The numbers of this sub-species is actually increasing due, in part, to hunters and conservation efforts paid for in large part by big game hunting. The breed is not rare in any way other than it was very old. Giraffes get darker with age,” said Talley, in an email to Fox News.

    She points out that the giraffe she killed was 18, too old to breed, and had killed three younger bulls who were able to breed, causing the herd’s population to decrease. Now, with the older giraffe dead, the younger bulls are able to continue to breed and can increase the population.

    “This is called conservation through game management,” says Talley, who insists hers was not a “canned” hunt.
    Prominent activist and Hollywood actor Ricky Gervais, on the same day Talley’s images went viral, tweeted that “Giraffes are now on the 'red list' of endangerment due to a 40% decline over the last 25 years. They could become extinct. Gone forever. And still, we allow spoilt c--ts to pay money to shoot them with a bow and arrow for fun.”

    However, there is some debate of the “rarity” of the giraffe on Talley’s hit list.

    “The giraffe in the photo is of the South African species Giraffa giraffe, which are not rare – they are increasing in the wild,” Julian Fennessy, Ph.D., co-founder of the Giraffe Conservation Foundation told Yahoo Lifestyle. “Legal hunting of giraffe is not a reason for their decline, despite the moral and ethical side of it which is a different story.”

    Nonetheless, the images have spurred deep emotions among those opposed to the controversial practice.

    “Shame on you to think your life is more than any other living creature and gives you the right to end its life! Who are you to place yourself above any other living creature,” one person tweeted. “I hope nature takes revenge on you!”

    Others have vowed that “killing animals for fun is a sign of serious mental illness,” while others have referred to Talley as a “disgusting excuse for a human being” and a “spoiled wealthy brat with no conscience.” She was also referred to as a “disgusting, vile, amoral, heartless, selfish murderer” by actress Debra Messing.

    However, the self-described passionate hunter is hardly the first American to come under intense Internet fire in recent times for overseas trophy kills.

    Nikki Tate, a 27-year-old lawyer and “ethical hunter” from Texas sparked outcry – and death threats – late last year after she posted pictures with her kills. But she also attested to receiving scores of messages of support too, being referred to as a “role model and inspiration” in the conservation arena.

    And in 2015, Minnesota dentist Walter Palmer was internationally scorned after killing the famous “Cecile the Lion” near a national park in Zimbabwe.

    "I get that hunting is not for everyone; that’s what makes this world great is the differences. But to make threats to anyone because they don’t believe the way you do is completely unacceptable. If it was any other belief that was different, threats and insults would be deemed hideous. However, for some reason it is OK to act this way because it’s hunting," Talley wrote in her email.

    Meanwhile, in the United States, the issue of trophy hunting abroad remains a controversial one legislatively as conservation and welfare groups are banding together to encourage the Trump administration to reject import permits for South African lions.

    Under a new process instituted in March this year, trophy hunters are able to provide the U.S government with information confidentially rather than giving public notice in their quest to obtain an import permit, raising questions over the legalities how the kill was carried out, and whether or not mostly illicit practices such as “baiting” were used, violating the ethics of “fair chase.”

    Big-game hunters appointed by the Trump team to assist in the re-writing of federal rules pertaining to the importing of heads from African elephants and lions last week defended the trophy hunting practice, contending that threatened and endangered species would go extinct without the anti-poaching programs financed in large part by the hefty fees wealthy Americans pay to carry out the souvenir slaughters.

    Where the president himself now stands on the matter, however, remains unclear.

    “Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week but will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants or any other animal,” he tweeted in November.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Trophy hunting is repugnant.

    Food hunting is a very human activity.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Pinheads with guns and money getting a thrill out of killing rare animals, apparently the rarer the better. And governments happy to support it. Nice planet we have here.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    I do not know all the politics of South Africa's hunting system, but it can be beneficial to the game. In this country, hunting and fishing licenses fund large conservation efforts benefitting game and non-game species, and the ecosystems in general. On the non-governmental side, Ducks Unlimited and Trout Unlimited have restored habitat and populations for lots of waterfowl and fish, and improved outdoor recreational opportunities for people who do not hunt or fish

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    game management and conservation helps animal populations. it's not the anti-hunting crowd that helps animal populations, it's the hunters and wildlife management programs for hunting.


    https://books.google.com/books?hl=en...page&q&f=false

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Same old BS justifications for wanton killing. If anyone cares about the preservation of rare animals they can donate money to preservation organizations. If the only reason they are shelling out the dinero is for the thrill of killing them then they do not care about the animals. And it doesn't change what kind of person they are.
    Last edited by JimD; 07-02-2018 at 12:17 PM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    pffft. i guess you're a vegan that ramps his car off the road for squirrels.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Whether or not there is a legitimate function of conservation and hunting,

    Prayers for my once in a lifetime dream hunt came true today! Spotted this rare black giraffe bull and stalked him for quite a while. I knew it was the one. He was over 18 years old, 4000 lbs. and was blessed to be able to get [a ton] of meat from him.”
    the grammar doesn't really need a lot parsing to get the drift here, no?
    I don't care to know what the tough do when the going gets tough.

    I am interested in what the enlightened do.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    "but it can be beneficial to the game."

    Utter BS! How is removing the largest, healthiest, and fittest individuals from a population good for it?
    There is a reason predators in nature take the sick, young, and old.

    The only thing trophy hunting serves is to foster a sick and twisted sense of bravado.
    Nosce te ipsum

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    "but it can be beneficial to the game."

    Utter BS! How is removing the largest, healthiest, and fittest individuals from a population good for it?
    There is a reason predators in nature take the sick, young, and old.

    The only thing trophy hunting serves is to foster a sick and twisted sense of bravado.

    There is a reason predators in nature take the sick, young, and old as explained here:

    WELL YA SEE, NORM, IT’S LIKE THIS… A HERD OF BUFFALO CAN ONLY MOVE AS FAST AS THE SLOWEST BUFFALO.
    AND WHEN THE HERD IS HUNTED, IT IS THE SLOWEST AND WEAKEST ONES AT THE BACK THAT ARE KILLED FIRST.

    THIS NATURAL SELECTION IS GOOD FOR THE HERD AS A WHOLE, BECAUSE THE GENERAL SPEED AND HEALTH OF THE WHOLE GROUP KEEPS IMPROVING BY THE REGULAR KILLING OF THE WEAKEST MEMBERS.

    IN MUCH THE SAME WAY, THE HUMAN BRAIN CAN ONLY OPERATE AS FAST AS THE SLOWEST BRAIN CELLS.
    EXCESSIVE INTAKE OF ALCOHOL, AS WE KNOW, KILLS BRAIN CELLS. BUT NATURALLY IT ATTACKS THE SLOWEST AND WEAKEST BRAIN CELLS FIRST.
    IN THIS WAY, REGULAR CONSUMPTION OF BEER ELIMINATES THE WEAKER BRAIN CELLS, MAKING THE BRAIN A FASTER AND MORE EFFICIENT MACHINE.

    THAT’S WHY YOU ALWAYS FEEL SMARTER AFTER A FEW BEERS.”
    -
    Cliff Clavin
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    "but it can be beneficial to the game."

    Utter BS! How is removing the largest, healthiest, and fittest individuals from a population good for it?
    There is a reason predators in nature take the sick, young, and old.

    The only thing trophy hunting serves is to foster a sick and twisted sense of bravado.

    you're not reading any of the articles i see.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    pffft. i guess you're a vegan that ramps his car off the road for squirrels.
    So tell me, what happens when you tell a childish troll they're behaving like a childish troll?
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    So tell me, what happens when you tell a childish troll they're behaving like a childish troll?

    the troll trolling the troll gets his troll hair? what color did you wind up with?

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    you're not reading any of the articles i see.
    You mistake benefiting fat, rich, land owners with benefiting the wildlife.

    Show me one example where the natural die off of the fittest in a population has benefited that population.
    Nosce te ipsum

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    the troll trolling the troll gets his troll hair? what color did you wind up with?
    I have no idea what you just said. May I assume that was an example of being a childish troll?
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Trophy hunting is repugnant.

    Food hunting is a very human activity.

    Peace,
    Robert
    I can understand the thinking, however, trophy hunting has a positive side. If the ego's and $$ from the few that do it go back to preserving the resource and I'm sure "contributions" would not do it, is there a better answer?

    https://www.newscientist.com/article...ave-a-species/

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    I can understand the thinking, however, trophy hunting has a positive side. If the ego's and $$ from the few that do it go back to preserving the resource and I'm sure "contributions" would not do it, is there a better answer?

    https://www.newscientist.com/article...ave-a-species/
    Stop building and mining everywhere. Stop spreading humanity out into every last corner.

    Not long until the only “wild” animals live in one place, because the globally interconnected sprawl will preclude them living elsewhere.

    Then again, we could just keep shooting the big uns. And just the big uns.

    Again, I’ve no issue with hunting for food. If an African fellow wants to kill a zebra or giraffe or whatever the heck else, for food, far be it from me to say no. But, to fly over somewhere with the express intent to kill an animal, and only the largest example to be found, merely for the sport of it, regardless of whether the hunter eats the meat, is repugnant.

    To me.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    I can understand the thinking, however, trophy hunting has a positive side. If the ego's and $$ from the few that do it go back to preserving the resource and I'm sure "contributions" would not do it, is there a better answer?

    https://www.newscientist.com/article...ave-a-species/
    That's a big "IF"! If I had even a 100,000 dollars, I could _______________(fill in the blank)

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    i'm not into "trophy" hunting. i'll shoot the first 80 lb doe that walks out, pack some meat in the freezer and be done. but those that enjoy it fund a lot of the management. you can cry all you want about some old giraffe, but the money taken in from that hunt helps expand the herds of young and healthy animals. if you could get past your emotional response to the cute animal being killed you would see this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i'm not into "trophy" hunting. i'll shoot the first 80 lb doe that walks out, pack some meat in the freezer and be done. but those that enjoy it fund a lot of the management. you can cry all you want about some old giraffe, but the money taken in from that hunt helps expand the herds of young and healthy animals. if you could get past your emotional response to the cute animal being killed you would see this.
    And this is how conversation dies, Alan.

    I’ve now been lumped as having an emotional response to cuteness despite my rational replies explaining my position, which is anything but emotionally driven.

    Selectively killing the trophies will affect the population. It’s why you never take hogs from fish holes, but yearling class fish to eat.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Mums the word there are no bigfoots in Oregon..

    Not saying i know anything about this.....
    You killed the last one?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    My question here is the definition of a trophy. My idea, it's the biggest, the one with the biggest rack, the line that is in it's prime. I can see trophy hunters turning up their noses with examples that do not meet that criteria and will wait to kill the one that does. They look so much better stuffed and on the wall of their man caves. Forget the one that's missing a horn, is old and not capable of breeding any longer. That's what I think Trophy hunting is all about. Just look at the hunters who get their trophy animal and post the pictures, they more often than not are bigger, have bigger racks etc. than any others they had seen. The example here is of a black giraffe, a rare animal that now is even rarer but, it's a trophy because it's rare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    And this is how conversation dies, Alan.

    I’ve now been lumped as having an emotional response to cuteness despite my rational replies explaining my position, which is anything but emotionally driven.

    Selectively killing the trophies will affect the population. It’s why you never take hogs from fish holes, but yearling class fish to eat.

    Peace,
    Robert

    the article in question here though says the bull was past age for reproduction and was actually killing off younger reproductive bulls. for most of these stories about African hunting outrage, this seems to be what they're doing. thinning out the older males to make room for productive males. but everyone (not you specifically rob) sees that their favorite zoo animal got killed and they get the angry emotional response. i'm not into trophy hunting myself, but there's a time and place for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    the article in question here though says the bull was past age for reproduction and was actually killing off younger reproductive bulls. for most of these stories about African hunting outrage, this seems to be what they're doing. thinning out the older males to make room for productive males. but everyone (not you specifically rob) sees that their favorite zoo animal got killed and they get the angry emotional response. i'm not into trophy hunting myself, but there's a time and place for it.
    That's the excuse I hear a lot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    the article in question here though says the bull was past age for reproduction and was actually killing off younger reproductive bulls. for most of these stories about African hunting outrage, this seems to be what they're doing. thinning out the older males to make room for productive males. but everyone (not you specifically rob) sees that their favorite zoo animal got killed and they get the angry emotional response. i'm not into trophy hunting myself, but there's a time and place for it.
    It's an attitude thing. These hunters are not motivated by environmental reasons. They do not principally care about the health of the herd or any such thing. Those are just circumstances that provide the opportunity to kill something. Even in those cases where killing the animal is in fact helpful for the group trophy hunters are for the most part joyful and thrilled by the act of killing a rare and amazing living thing first and foremost. All other motivation is secondary.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    That's the excuse I hear a lot!
    At least he’s trying to converstate. Stop not helping us understand one another for a few minutes will you? Go shout elsewhere, please, while I try to have a reasonable conversation and learn about another person’s viewpoint.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    At least he’s trying to converstate. Stop not helping us understand one another for a few minutes will you? Go shout elsewhere, please, while I try to have a reasonable conversation and learn about another person’s viewpoint.

    Peace,
    Robert
    I understand him perfectly Rob! Surprised you don't. Carry on, give it a shot, no skin off my butt.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    ok, so what is jimd's solution to african wildlife population issues?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    ok, so what is jimd's solution to african wildlife population issues?
    There isn't just one solution, it's multiple. Killing trophy animals, as I've defined, trophy isn't the answer and never will be.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    the article in question here though says the bull was past age for reproduction and was actually killing off younger reproductive bulls. for most of these stories about African hunting outrage, this seems to be what they're doing. thinning out the older males to make room for productive males. but everyone (not you specifically rob) sees that their favorite zoo animal got killed and they get the angry emotional response. i'm not into trophy hunting myself, but there's a time and place for it.
    Point taken. When animals need to be culled from reservations or otherwise monitored systems, I understand. This is not always the case, though, as you must concede, in these trophy hunts.

    In some cases, the hunt can be justified, as an exercise to maintain harmony and productivity in the society as a whole.

    Still.

    Maybe the next giraffe becomes giraffe king by finally taking out old Grey Horns, eh?

    If it is determined an animal need be culled, best probably to simply cull it than allow a “hunt”. The trophy hunt bit leaves a foul taste, as it’s never much of a hunt in these cases.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    In the article the giraffe in question is described as post reproductive and a member of a subspecies who's numbers are increasing

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    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    I understand him perfectly Rob! Surprised you don't. Carry on, give it a shot, no skin off my butt.
    I wouldn’t presume to understand anyone, let alone their opinions about a complex subject, perfectly from just a few posts on an Internet forum.

    I humbly bow to your perceptive genius.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Point taken. When animals need to be culled from reservations or otherwise monitored systems, I understand. This is not always the case, though, as you must concede, in these trophy hunts.

    In some cases, the hunt can be justified, as an exercise to maintain harmony and productivity in the society as a whole.

    Still.

    Maybe the next giraffe becomes giraffe king by finally taking out old Grey Horns, eh?

    If it is determined an animal need be culled, best probably to simply cull it than allow a “hunt”. The trophy hunt bit leaves a foul taste, as it’s never much of a hunt in these cases.

    Peace,
    Robert

    i get that point. but the whole reason they let a hunter cull the animal is money. money they use for conservation, education, and feeding local tribes. would you expect a poor african region to forego millions in revenue just so they can cull an animal behind closed doors and no one gets upset about it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i get that point. but the whole reason they let a hunter cull the animal is money. money they use for conservation, education, and feeding local tribes. would you expect a poor african region to forego millions in revenue just so they can cull an animal behind closed doors and no one gets upset about it?
    I would hope we could be so universally egalitarian that a country need not depend on such. As a race, we humans produce more than enough, but we’re stuck on foolish notions of Race.

    Why are there places on the planet fellow humans live such lives?

    That’s what upsets me. More than the hunts. What the hunts represent.


    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Trophy Kill

    You're doing great Rob! Not making a dent but, doing great!

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