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Thread: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

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    Default Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Andrés Manuel López Obrador has been elected President of Mexico on a platform of anti corruption and law and order. He is known for his outspoken statements about internal corruption https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/aml...-head-to-head/
    His comments re Donald have not been kind either, and cooperation on cross border crime, started under Bush is considered to be at risk. https://www.csis.org/analysis/mexico...nship-put-test
    Another little wrinkle re Donald's unpredictable ideas is what happens to NAFTA:
    "Of great concern to U.S. investors is the Trump administration demand that “investor-state dispute settlement” panels be removed from a new NAFTA. Such panels would prevent, say, a left-wing government from nationalizing billions of dollars worth of oil rigs, pipelines, rail lines, or modern manufacturing plants. If the United States were to pull out of the existing treaty, Mexico would be under no obligation to keep the dispute panels in place. If given the opportunity to return Mexico to a statist economy, López Obrador may take it."

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Best Thing Ever!
    Xanthorrea

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    All they have to do now is keep him alive long enough to take over the job, and then after that who knows.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    I'm in San Miguel de Allende and they're ecstatic. Lots of fireworks last night and parties in the town square.
    Here's hoping he makes the changes.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Obrador 2018: "Promises, promises, promises."

    Trump 2016: "Promises, promises, promises."

    We'll see.
    IMMIGRANTS BUILT AMERICA - IMMIGRANTS BUILD AMERICA

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Fondest memories of my first trip on my own outside of Canada to Mexico in 1975. Have had a soft spot for the country ever since and been back many times, So sorry to say it but government, corruption, and law and order couldn't get much worse in Mexico outside of complete breakdown and anarchy. I doubt if he will actually be able to do much about any of it, but best of luck to him. If he's serious about changes there are going to be people trying to kill him from all sides.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    How far left do they think they will have to go until, as Diogenes hoped, they find an honest man?

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    They may have found an honest man. Or not. Doesn't mean he can do other than as he says he will, which is to lead by example. And that is no guarantee that anyone else will follow it.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    The main thing is for the US to keep the War on Drugs perking along. It’s worked so well so far....
    Well, Mr. Botard, do you still deny all rhinocerotic evidence?

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Well, not only can Donald call the mexicans gangsters and drug dealers, he can now call them communists……………….

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Read "The Cartel" and learn who really run's Mexico.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Won't be easy woodpile, the first difficult part may be staying alive. But the 'traditional' parties had no success, possibly because they'd been bought. But corruption in Mexico will be very deeply ingrained and very hard to root out.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Impossible to root out. It will take a revolution from inside. That wont happen as long as they have a safe place to go, aka, here.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    So, how much longer before Trump moves to annex Mexico?
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    We wish them well!... 130+- politically motivated killings in Mexico since last fall... sad.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Carlos Slim?
    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    Read "The Cartel" and learn who really run's Mexico.
    Xanthorrea

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    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    Best Thing Ever!
    Likely not. He came of political age when the PRI was still running a one party state. The PRI, having had to go through 12 years as an opposition party, to some extent reformed. Too much so for AMLO. Now, no one knows what to expect from the man. The recent history of leftists political leaders in Latin America has been less than stellar. His rhetoric during the campaign has been both contradictory and ambiguous. He was once an ardent supporter of the Pink Tide of Latin America which has given us the likes of Chavez, Noriega, etc. What will he do now? Almost impossible to guess. But to say he is the best thing ever is at the least very naive.
    Last edited by peb; 07-02-2018 at 09:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Fondest memories of my first trip on my own outside of Canada to Mexico in 1975. Have had a soft spot for the country ever since and been back many times, So sorry to say it but government, corruption, and law and order couldn't get much worse in Mexico outside of complete breakdown and anarchy. I doubt if he will actually be able to do much about any of it, but best of luck to him. If he's serious about changes there are going to be people trying to kill him from all sides.
    As to governmental corruption at the Federal level, I would guess it is much better than 1975. Police corruption and education system corruption is worse.
    In the last 20 years, the country has had a huge growth in it's middle class, lots of foriegn investment. It has, by no means, near a complete breakdown or anarchy. Heck, just yesterday, they had the highest turnout ever in an election and by all accounts it went rather smoothly.

    Way overstated, to the point of wondering where in the heck you go when you visit so often.

    I am not denying the problems with the cartels, but the country is not some type of amarcjic jungle.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    “investor-state dispute settlement”
    I'm not sure these are a great idea anyway.
    No private company in another country should be able to hold a country to ransom - we've been spending tens of millions fighting ISDS cases in courts for things like plain packaging on cigarette packets.

    As for nationalising plant - it still exists, it will still need to do business. Just because it is nationalised doesn't mean it won't trade......
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    So, how much longer before Trump moves to annex Mexico?
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    So, how much longer before Trump moves to annex Mexico?
    Are his psychopants so stupid as not to understand that this is his best, most-effective move!?!?

    It leaves Crimea in the dust!
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Are his psychopants so stupid as not to understand that this is his best, most-effective move!?!?

    It leaves Crimea in the dust!
    Why not? They all wanna come here anyway.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    All they have to do now is keep him alive long enough to take over the job, and then after that who knows.
    The cards are stacked against him. Existing pernicious incentives will make it all but impossible. But I wish him, and Mexico, the very best of outcomes.
    David G
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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Don't really know much about Obrador, other than he was the guy who paid Rudy Giuliani $5 million for advice on reducing the crime rate in Mexico City.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    As to governmental corruption at the Federal level, I would guess it is much better than 1975. Police corruption and education system corruption is worse.
    In the last 20 years, the country has had a huge growth in it's middle class, lots of foriegn investment. It has, by no means, near a complete breakdown or anarchy. Heck, just yesterday, they had the highest turnout ever in an election and by all accounts it went rather smoothly.

    Way overstated, to the point of wondering where in the heck you go when you visit so often.

    I am not denying the problems with the cartels, but the country is not some type of amarcjic jungle.
    Transparency International ranked Mexico 123rd of 176 countries rated. Not an expecially good record https://www.transparency.org/news/fe...waAgnIEALw_wcB .
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Don't really know much about Obrador, other than he was the guy who paid Rudy Giuliani $5 million for advice on reducing the crime rate in Mexico City.
    He also issued some rather shady no-bid construction contracts while he was mayor. Left the details as classified when he left power. Claimed during the campaign it was all transparent, but the records were never released. Which would match the typical way of doing business by the PRI when they were a one party state. I certainly wish Mexico the best, I love the country, my wife us from Mexico, her family of course are there.
    But I am not naive enough to believe Mexico has found an honest man. No one knows what will come of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Transparency International ranked Mexico 123rd of 176 countries rated. Not an expecially good record https://www.transparency.org/news/fe...waAgnIEALw_wcB .
    I do not denying Mexico has many problems, heck my posts on this thread should make that clear. I do deny they are are on the threshold of a complete breakdown and anarchy. I have been to countries in that type of shape, there is a stark difference.
    I also say they have made pretty good progress in the last twenty years, even considering the huge problem the north (mainly) has with cartel violence. Which is completely a by product of America's insatiable appetite for drugs. An appetite that certainly extends across all socio-economic levels and across the political spectrum.

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    Too many Americans think of Mexico as a place with some cool resorts and assume the rest of the country is a nightmare. You do not get to know anything about Mexico by staying at an all-inclusive Cancun resort. Believe it or not, there are lots of people living happy lives in that country. When I married my wife, I had family members assume that her family would immediately want to use her as a means to immigrate to the US, despite the fact that they are successful restaurant owners and solidly middle class. They have no desire to move here, heck my wife is only here because of me, she misses living in Mexico. I suppose one day when the kids are grown, we might have a second home there.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I do deny they are are on the threshold of a complete breakdown and anarchy.
    I did not say I though it was. If my wording gave that impression it was not my intention. It also seems to me that any progress they may have made in certain areas has been, on the balance, profoundly compromised and counterbalanced by cartel activity. But for the most part I'd guess you and I are not that far apart in our view of Mexico. I'll be going back again this winter.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    I did not say I though it was. If my wording gave that impression it was not my intention. It also seems to me that any progress they may have made in certain areas has been, on the balance, profoundly compromised and counterbalanced by cartel activity. But for the most part I'd guess you and I are not that far apart in our view of Mexico. I'll be going back again this winter.
    You actually did:. "couldn't get much worse in Mexico outside of complete breakdown and anarchy".

    Have a great trip, where are you headed? I am going there the end of this month. First to Guadalajara for a few days visiting friends and family, and then driving to Puerto Vallerta for a few days on the beach. Older kids and their families will meet us there.
    Especially looking forward to the drive, the first 3 hours headed northwest from Guadalajara is one of the most beautiful drives I have ever made.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    [QUOTE]=peb;5611314]You actually did:. "couldn't get much worse in Mexico outside of complete breakdown and anarchy".

    Have a great trip, where are you headed? I am going there the end of this month. First to Guadalajara for a few days visiting friends and family, and then driving to Puerto Vallerta for a few days on the beach. Older kids and their families will meet us there.
    Especially looking forward to the drive, the first 3 hours headed northwest from Guadalajara is one of the most beautiful drives I have ever made.[/QUOTE']


    Naw, 'outside of' does not imply on the verge of or brink of , or close to, etc. At least not the way I speak English. Perhaps a case of being separated by a common language...We're going to try near, but not in, P. Vallarta. It's quick to get to. I'd rather the south coast, ie Escondido and there abouts, or Chiapas, but flights aren't as convenient and we're getting too old for 24 hours of airports and flying time. Maybe we'll work up to it. I hope so. For me the farther south you go the more interesting it becomes. But today we're headed north. Taking the boat camping and fishing for a week. Cheers.
    Last edited by JimD; 07-03-2018 at 11:53 AM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Good Luck Mexico!!!

    Keep moving toward the light --

    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Too many Americans think of Mexico as a place with some cool resorts and assume the rest of the country is a nightmare. You do not get to know anything about Mexico by staying at an all-inclusive Cancun resort. Believe it or not, there are lots of people living happy lives in that country. When I married my wife, I had family members assume that her family would immediately want to use her as a means to immigrate to the US, despite the fact that they are successful restaurant owners and solidly middle class. They have no desire to move here, heck my wife is only here because of me, she misses living in Mexico. I suppose one day when the kids are grown, we might have a second home there.
    Where do you think the money came from to build those high rises in Cancun, it was cartel money, and today it's their money laundering honey hole with all those gringo dollars spent there, yeah, they take good care of the tourists there and for good business reasoning, no thanks.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    Where do you think the money came from to build those high rises in Cancun, it was cartel money, and today it's their money laundering honey hole with all those gringo dollars spent there, yeah, they take good care of the tourists there and for good business reasoning, no thanks.
    You talking about the Trump casinos?? Actually I do know a major investor in Mexican tourist destinations. He's from New Jersey. FWIW, the investors in Cancun hotels are mainly the Mexican government and major hotel companies based in Spain.
    Last edited by Dan McCosh; 07-04-2018 at 12:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Mexico moves left in search of an honest government

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    You talking about the Trump casinos?? Actually I do know a major investor in Mexican tourist destinations. He's from New Jersey. FWIW, the investors in Cancun hotels are mainly the Mexican government and major hotel companies based in Spain.
    I must have missed something, what was the name of that Trump casino in Cancun? And what are the sources for investors, and who controls the Mexican government?

    "From the white Caribbean beaches of Cancun to violent towns on the U.S. border and the beauty parlors of Mexico City’s wealthy suburbs, drug cash is everywhere in Mexico. It has even propped up the country’s banking system, helping it ride out the financial crisis and aiding the country’s economy."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-d...2?feedType=RSS

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