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Thread: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    I'm really impressed! I only have one complaint...I keep wanting to see the next step! How much is the kit? Not that I need to know how much the next build will be before I finish my first, but this really looks like fun!

    Ken

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Quote Originally Posted by KenStocker View Post
    I'm really impressed! I only have one complaint...I keep wanting to see the next step! How much is the kit? Not that I need to know how much the next build will be before I finish my first, but this really looks like fun!

    Ken
    As with most all of the Chesapeake Light Craft kits, you can by anything from just plans, to plans and ply parts, to that plus pre-dimensioned timber, glass cloth and epoxy. Spar stock can be added, too. I went for the whole thing and specified sitka for the spars. The bill was just over $8,000. And I still have to source ballast, sails and a trailer. And miscellaneous bits of rigging, etc. etc. etc. But yes, it is nice to work on a project that moves ahead at a steady pace.
    -Dave

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I dropped in some of the horizontal pieces to check the bulkhead spacing and general fit. CNC rules! A couple of 1/8" trims was all that was needed.

    Attachment 22390

    Now, about bending those sides with the stringers attached. The bow came together easily, but the stern calls for a much tighter radius around the aftermost bulkhead. I haven't gotten the stern entirely together yet. I left it ratcheted hard overnight so it can think over how it's going to behave when I get back to it.

    Now, that’s the spot where gluing later would be nice, because attaching the stringers later allows them to be laminated with the ply in the shape they want to be, if that makes sense.

    However, as I see this come together, I realize the real reason for the stringers first is to key it all together. What an absolutely wonderful to assemble it all. The horizontal and vertical surfaces all tabbing and slotting, as it were.
    It is like building a model. So cool!

    Are those timber stem pieces? They look it.

    Keep up the good work. You’re already almost to the tedious, fiddly, never ending part of the build.

    Peace,
    Robert

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Its clear from the latest pictures those stringers are not square, that they appeared to be on the photo i made the comment on, might have been due to shadow and my eyesight. Gives me much food for thought for up-coming plans. Imagine how much time you have saved not having to make that cockpit seating! Carry on.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Still plugging away at it. I've gone from dry fitting to "it's too late to go back" bonding. The sole and berth flat are in, next the shelves which double as web frames and the sheer clamps.
    The looming struggle is the job of flipping this thing over for the bottom. I may need a chain hoist.

    IMG_20180919_120106.jpg
    -Dave

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Looking good, Wox.

    How heavy is she ( now)?

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Still plugging away at it. I've gone from dry fitting to "it's too late to go back" bonding. The sole and berth flat are in, next the shelves which double as web frames and the sheer clamps.
    The looming struggle is the job of flipping this thing over for the bottom. I may need a chain hoist.
    Seems like the next advance in CNC boatbuilding needs to be including a structure for rotating the hull. Some sort of cradle perhaps, with provisions for casters so you can roll the boat out of the garage, flip it and roll it back in? Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to add.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Not heavy at all. My big concern is the unsupported ply edges. I don't want to break anything. I may put a simple box frame around it.
    -Dave

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Right, Chris. Most CLC kits are much smaller than this. Plus, this is the prototype so there are no detailed directions. I'm sorting it out as I go along and reporting back to John.
    -Dave

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    I'm liking this wrong way out building method. I see it's potential until it comes time for the bottom work.


    Are the slots on the cabin sides for dagger boards/lee boards?
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  11. #81
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Yes, it has a pair of unballasted bilgeboards that open through the deck. Lots of boats need to be flipped once during construction. This one, twice.
    -Dave

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Very cool project. The CLC guys sure have got it well figured out. I'm enamored with the teardrop camper.

    Nice work!
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

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  13. #83
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    Very cool project. The CLC guys sure have got it well figured out. I'm enamored with the teardrop camper.

    Nice work!
    And I'm seeing this as doubling as a teardrop (or is it more of a lozenge?) camper.
    -Dave

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    back in August of '13 a member from the Uk Little Idea started an 84 page thread

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ht=little+idea

    named

    I want to build airplane lifting wheels into my boat Im building, but dont know how



    and in it i saw a work table that might help folks working solo lift turn and flip their projects

    might take some time to look thru the pics and ponder it

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    When I rolled our 20’ plywood sailboat, we just set it on short horses with long tops. Short in height, long in lemgth. we scooted it to one end, rolled 90*, scooted it back over, then rolled once more.

    She was probably 300 pounds, and I did it with one other person and a belay person, just in case.

    The boat also has plumb sides (though it’s not “square”), so rested easily on one side. I simply added spreaders between the sheer clamps to keep it braced during the rollover.

    Looking good, Yo.

    Peace,
    Robert

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Robert, I like that plan. The horses would just be tall enough to keep the cabin top frames from contacting the floor. And in my case, 8' long horses would do the trick. I may still put a strap around it attached to some sort of hoist to control the process. When it comes back upright, the weight will be near doubled and it will be very bottom-heavy.

    Steve - I do remember Little Idea, what a great blog that is. Wonder what he's up to now? What I don't recall is the boat-turning device. I'll take a look.
    -Dave

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Robert, I like that plan. The horses would just be tall enough to keep the cabin top frames from contacting the floor. And in my case, 8' long horses would do the trick. I may still put a strap around it attached to some sort of hoist to control the process. When it comes back upright, the weight will be near doubled and it will be very bottom-heavy.

    Steve - I do remember Little Idea, what a great blog that is. Wonder what he's up to now? What I don't recall is the boat-turning device. I'll take a look.
    Yes to the control line. We had my daughter in a three part purchase, which we didn’t need, but had. Prudence, and all, eh? Hehe.

    Like almost everything about building boats, it’s way harder, worse, scarier, etc. in your head before it’s done.

    Peace,
    Robert

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    I've ordered a couple of cheap one-ton chain hoists. The plan is this: put a lag screw halfway down each stem. Run a length of chain between the pairs of joists above the ends of the boat. The center points line up pretty closely to the ends of the boat. Hang a hoist at each end, hook on and lift. Once it's up about 14", I'll slide under the long and low sawhorses you suggested, Robert. But they only need to be as wide as the boat, because as I continue to lift the boat clear of the horses, I can rotate it in place. I'll still need a control line, but the load on it shouldn't be very great.

    I see a couple of advantages this way -- I can easily turn the boat on either side for easier glassing, the process should be slow and controlled and maybe even possible single-handed. And also, I can use the hoists to lift it on and off the trailer in the future. The lag screws won't be permanent, but there will be a bow eye for the trailer winch and I can easily fit a lifting eye somewhere aft.

    So am I missing something? The boat weighs 500 pounds at most now. Finished without the removable lead ballast it's designed to come in at 1,000 pounds. As long as 500 pounds on each pair of rafters isn't too much, I figure the roof won't cave in on me. Right?

    ready to roll.jpg
    -Dave

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Gee, I wouldn't trust your beautiful hull to lag screws. You don't want to think about what would happen if one pulled out. From your photos it looks as though you have enough room to roll her onto a side, use a hoist to lift the hull onto two carefully placed sawhorses, and then roll the hull the rest of the way over. That is how I rolled my hull in a shop with far less space than you have. My hoist is hard to see in this photo, but the cable wraps around under the hull and is fastened to the starboard rail. With most of the weight supported by the hoist, I was able to drag the hull, on the two cushions, to the left and then finish the roll onto saw horses (one of which is visible in the left foreground).
    Photo 2.jpg

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Dave,

    I'm really enjoying your thread. I love John Harris designs .


    This is going to be a very cool looking craft.
    Skip

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  21. #91
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    I built a CLC Peeler a few years ago and flipped it a few times. I used ratchet straps lagged into the ceiling joists. I lifted the hull a few inches and rotated it in the straps. I was concerned with the, at that point, unreenforced plywood at the sheer, but there was no issue. I had two helpers the first time we rolled it, but the other times I was by myself. The slipperiness of the webbing allowed the hull to slide easily with no impact on the hull. I think that the weight and beam of the Peeler and your boat are similar. Looks great.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    have to strongly agree w/ MH about the lag screws pulling out/damaging the hull at that point in addition to the damage from impacting the floor

    ponder this

    move the hoists to 1/3 in from each end and hang a block/pully from each

    tie 2 rope loops around the hull 1 thru each block

    lift the hull in the loops and roll her while the blocks allow the loops to move freely

    should be a 1-man job w/o fear of pulling out a lag screw & dropping one end on the floor

    if the unstiffened shear is of concern you could fasten a 2x brace across the hull where the ropes sling the hull

    if the weight on an individual joist is of concern you could build a STRONG BACK(inverted T section screwed to the top of the joists) connecting all the joists to spread the load

    ¿ clear as mud ?

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    This boat is going to be trailered, yes? You're going to install a hell-for-stout bow eye eventually, just do it now instead of the lag-bolt. do it at both ends.

    There is MUCH to be said for building/finishing on a rotissierie-style arrangement. Your back and knees will benefit enormously.
    No adversary is worse than bad advice.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    This boat is going to be trailered, yes? You're going to install a hell-for-stout bow eye eventually, just do it now instead of the lag-bolt. do it at both ends.

    There is MUCH to be said for building/finishing on a rotissierie-style arrangement. Your back and knees will benefit enormously.
    This is exactly what I was thinking. I really like this project. You boat sure is going together faster than mine.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    I'm not sure that the stems would have enough strength to support the entire hull without the deck in place.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Thanks all for the comments. Mike, the stems are massive compared to the rest of the lumber in this boat, and the sides are glued and screwed to them with about 4" of width from top to bottom. Also, the cockpit sole and berth flat are epoxied into the sides and frames, plus the sheer clamp is in, so the whole unit is quite rigid. The weakest spot is the bottom edge of the side panels because the chine logs aren't in yet. That's one reason I starting thinking about lifting from the ends.

    Putting the bow eye in now makes sense, my only hesitation is that I don't have the trailer yet and don't know for certain how much latitude I'll have to adjust the winch to the eye. But I think I'll want the working bow eye higher up, and the lifting eye for building on center. I also need to check the rudder clearance in the stern so see how big a permanent eye could fit there. Of course, if the gudgeons were really oversized I could lift with them. Hmmm. Nahh.

    Steve -- some reinforcement over the joists would give me peace of mind. There's a ply floor over them with storage space above. I could drill a couple of holes through the floor and run the chains up and over that strongback. It wouldn't have to be permanent.
    -Dave

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Thanks all for the comments. Mike, the stems are massive compared to the rest of the lumber in this boat, and the sides are glued and screwed to them with about 4" of width from top to bottom. Also, the cockpit sole and berth flat are epoxied into the sides and frames, plus the sheer clamp is in, so the whole unit is quite rigid. The weakest spot is the bottom edge of the side panels because the chine logs aren't in yet. That's one reason I starting thinking about lifting from the ends.
    The 'ol Certified Eyeball and Gut Engineer thinks its plenty stout.

    Putting the bow eye in now makes sense, my only hesitation is that I don't have the trailer yet and don't know for certain how much latitude I'll have to adjust the winch to the eye. But I think I'll want the working bow eye higher up, and the lifting eye for building on center. I also need to check the rudder clearance in the stern so see how big a permanent eye could fit there. Of course, if the gudgeons were really oversized I could lift with them. Hmmm. Nahh.
    When its on the trailer, your "stern eye" will make securing the boat to the trailer quite handy. I would bolt in a large eye now, and plan on replacing it with something lower profile later on. It will be well worth the effort to improve the build experience.

    Steve -- some reinforcement over the joists would give me peace of mind. There's a ply floor over them with storage space above. I could drill a couple of holes through the floor and run the chains up and over that strongback. It wouldn't have to be permanent.
    ^ that's what I was going to suggest as well.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

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    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    i think the rotissery idea is the best. i have seen others on these forums happily use them. two stout i-bolts would work just fine and when you are done the holes are easily filled. just my opinion.

    jim

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    The rotissery worked. Things are cooking!

    Step one, rig a chain hoist to each stem. The hoists hang from chains that go through holes in the ceiling and loop over 6' long 2x6s, which spreads the load from the end walls out over three joists.

    Roll 1.jpg

    Step two, rig a pair of control lines, made off to clamps on the sheer.

    Roll 3.jpg
    -Dave

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Step three, call in the wife to haul on one hoist while I do the other, periodically taking up the slack in the control lines. When she's high enough to roll, move to the control lines and haul on one as the other is eased. The lines are run around heavy dowels set through the studs for sure control of the process.

    Roll 5.jpg

    As she came over, I found that the load on the line was heavier than I estimated, which is to say the boat was pivoting above the center of gravity. I slapped on an old boom vang, which served as a handy billy to help bring it along.

    Roll 7.jpg
    -Dave

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Final step, slide under a pair of long and low saw horses made to order and ease her back down with the chain hoists, once again pausing to ease the tension on the control lines. Then block up the stems and it's time to get to work on the bottom.

    And thanks everyone for the tips and advice. First time I've attempted a trick like this.

    Roll 8.jpg
    -Dave

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    The rotissery worked.
    Glad to hear it.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    That looked very slick and quick from here. did you use ring bolts or something else in the stems, what thickness?

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Half-inch by 5-inch bolts. I've decided not to fill the holes so the bolts can be fit anytime in the future to lift the boat. I'll put some sort of plugs in the holes but it's not critical. The forward one goes into the anchor locker that drains overboard, and the aft goes into a storage locker that drains to the sole. One late realization after I began rigging everything was that I can't use the forward hoist with the garage door open. (Obviously) But I can still lift it, support the boat just ahead of midships, then roll the trailer about half-way under it. I was pleased that the whole process was easy to control. I bought those hoists online for about $30 each, which was the only real expense, so it was a relatively cheap way to do it, too.

    18 Roll 1.5.jpg
    -Dave

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Terrapin - a box boat in a box

    Awesome job on the roll. May I inquire as to where the hoist came from and their capacities?
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